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Mario Putzo
#5461 - 2014-03-27 15:44:02 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."



HAHAHA....

He said as he left team speak of his own free will, only to return of his own free will moments later.
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#5462 - 2014-03-27 15:44:17 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."



So you're gonna bring Erotica1 before the Hague? You're comparing online karaoke to the Holocaust?


Law is a law. No exceptions or safe heavens from it.
LordOfDespair
Deep Dark Fantasy.
#5463 - 2014-03-27 15:45:08 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:

Being vulnerable is not an offense to anybody. Taking advantage of the vulnerable for your own sadistic pleasure is.


But its not a violation of any rule in Eve.


It becomes a violation if you use this platform to lure people out of it using predatory / extortion / false promise techniques.


Doesn't have to be illegal to be wrong.
Druthlen
The Carlisle Group
#5464 - 2014-03-27 15:45:25 UTC
Asuka Langley S wrote:
Druthlen wrote:
Tor Norman wrote:
Kaius Fero wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
...

A cop can put a gun to your head, sure.

Ero didn't put a gun to Sokhar's head, doesn't wear a badge and doesn't carry state-sanctioned authority that Sokhar was bound to obey.

A drug dealer will also not draw a gun in order to force you to buy his ****.

So space money is narcotics, now?


Lets be honest we pay real money to get access to this space money. It has value.


Actually we pay money for access to the game. ISK is worthless.


Then please send all your isk to me sense it is worthless......Oh you wont because it holds some value to you.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5465 - 2014-03-27 15:45:27 UTC
Kaius Fero wrote:
Well, maybe there is no responsibility over Sokhar as a grown up man and EVE player, but when the man wife is involved.. you should step back and call it a day. That woman had nothing to do with EVE, the community and the whole glory hole concept. Instead, they started to fuk around with her too.
She chose to get involved, and it was her trying to **** around with E1, not the other way around.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Brusanan
Free State Project
#5466 - 2014-03-27 15:45:31 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
[Asking someone to post naked pictures of their significant other with the false promise that they will get their assets back and having them write your name on their bodies with mayonnaise is far from asking someone to sing a song.

You seem confused. Erotica has never asked for nude pics of significant others.

Quote:
PS. If you are an Erotica 1 alt, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you were abused as a children. Many victims of abuse who go rehabilitated turn to abusing others later in their lives.

I like how all of the anti-Erotica people in this thread are so unconcerned with actually being right that they all just start wildly accusing Erotica of every crime they can think of.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5467 - 2014-03-27 15:46:23 UTC
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


LOL, I got this vision of you typing furiously at the keyboard in fine 'that'll show him" fashion.


Irrelevant, non-argument, and ad-hom.

Quote:
The only important thing here is bolded. What established standard?


The same standard that says you cannot go from system to system bumping miners (or anyone else) for no reason, and no meaningful gain on your part. At the point Erotica had all his assets, there was nothing left to gain.


Wrong.

Its the perception of legitimacy. Ero's rep has always been that he does not appear to scam. If he ended things the second he got all the targets stuff, he would be committing a scam. By driving proceedings until the contestant "voluntarily" gives up, he can claim in full honesty that the contestant lost fairly, and was not scammed. That is his reason, that is what he gains.

Sure, its subjective, but that strikes me as a significant motivation in this game where perceptions of what occurred often overules the truth of what occured.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5468 - 2014-03-27 15:46:25 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."


Okay, so it fails even by the broadest possible definition because it was not against the will of the latter. Attempting to get back your internet pixels indicates the "victim" was a self interested actor voluntarily pursuing a goal.

Also, "acute psychologic pain" lol. There are such things, and they include forced sleep deprivation (staying up late to play video games is not ******* sleep deprivation), forced nakedness, cavity searches, piping disturbing music or sounds into a cell for extended periods of time.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5469 - 2014-03-27 15:46:30 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
No.

You are trying to make it appear as if Erotica 1 does not do all that mental torture and abuse over Teamspeak for his sick and disgusting pleasure.

Just because a victim shows vulnerability does not make Erotica 1's sadistic ploy and his disgusting mental torture justified.

Being vulnerable is not an offense to anybody. Taking advantage of the vulnerable for your own sadistic pleasure is.

This is why Erotica 1 needs to be cast away from this community until a time that he can establish himself to be reformed and rehabilitated by a certified health care professional.


I'm pretty sure sokhar is gonna be crossed if he finds out you think he's a vulnerable little victim.
I believe he's a grown man with a job as air traffic controller and a wife who loves him plenty.

Again, get your facts straight; asking someone to sing is NOT TORTURE in any way shape or form.
Dropping N-bombs and refusing to speak with someone from African descent = racistt.
Threatening to kill someone = mad.



The discussion is not and never was about Sokhar. We are not discussing the victim.
Yet you continue to mention Sokhar, and casually continue to drop bits of what you hint is real life information into your posts.
If you'd like to reach the Erotica 1 standards of psychopathy, please do go ahead and continue acting like this.


Oh, sorry, who were you implying to be vulnerable again? And comming from the guy who says some spaceship captain needs to see a shrink Roll
How do you think I score on your standards of psychopathy by proving you wrong again and again? Because really, I'm dying to find out (<- you threatening my life IRL??)

D.

Bear


You are not proving me wrong. You are rather claiming to prove me wrong in a failed attempt to portray Erotica 1 as a harmless, average and even well wishing EVE player. You are trying to whitewash him. You attack everything to the best of your abilities that consistently reveal that Erotica 1 is a mentally disturbed individual who picks up victims from EVE Online, and abuses, tortures and bullies them over real life means of communication.

You are lying to this community. You are attacking people that are rightfully concerned about the well being and the perception of this community, because your sole motive is trying to portray a psychopath as an 'average, fun guy'.

Go forth and face the shame that you have attained for yourself so far. Meanwhile feel free to explain to the good people of EVE Online how you can claim that I, of all the people, threatened your life.

No amount of lies is going to be enough for whitewashing this guy.
Salvos Rhoska
#5470 - 2014-03-27 15:46:35 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
Entering the bonus room is voluntary.

I'll probably be gone in an hour, try again then.

Regards,
Crumplecorn


False.

The will of the perpetrators in the Bonus Room is for the victim to leave the situation.
The will of the victim is to fulfill the demands of the perpetrators, in order to fulfill the contract and receive the reward he was promised.

The Bonus Room perpetrators enable and enact their will of causing the victim to leave the situation, by applying systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain (which constitutes torture).

That is the mechanism whereby they "win" the Bonus Room.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5471 - 2014-03-27 15:46:36 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."



Bolded an important qualifier there for emphasis. Last I checked, nothing was done against Sokhar's will so, even in the broadest definition, as provided by Wikipedia where you got that from, no torture took place.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#5472 - 2014-03-27 15:47:04 UTC
LordOfDespair wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:

Being vulnerable is not an offense to anybody. Taking advantage of the vulnerable for your own sadistic pleasure is.


But its not a violation of any rule in Eve.


It becomes a violation if you use this platform to lure people out of it using predatory / extortion / false promise techniques.


Doesn't have to be illegal to be wrong.


It's usually a spark for more rules implementation that in the end are hitting all involved.
Freedom is not given in this era. It's only being limited more and more cause of tards believing they are above all.
Asuka Langley S
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5473 - 2014-03-27 15:47:24 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."

Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers, in order to accomplish their purpose of causing the victim to leave the situation, against the will of the victim to fulfill the Bonus Rooms demands for the reward promised in the contract of the Bonus Room between the victim and the perpetrators.

It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.

An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name. What the husband is doing to her, though superficially enabled by her remaining, nonetheless constitutes torture, as he is accomplishing the purposes of his will, namely of her remaining there for him to torture, against the will of the latter to leave the situation, as he knows full well she can and will not because then she is homeless and destitute.

In Erotica1s Bonus Room torture itself is the MEANS whereby they accomplish their goal of, sooner or later, forcing the victim to leave the situation, at which point Erotica1 wins the Bonus Room. This is achieved by inflicting on the victim systemaric and deliberate acute psychological pain.

That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question.

A Dev has been made to sing for his ship. But he did not suffer acute psychological pain in the process.
It is evident from the recording, however that Sohkar and his wife, did.


"Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers"

I was not aware that singing, reading aloud, or writing heartfilled messages were demeaning ore humiliating. As I recall, many people chuckle or even burst into laughter many times during this process.

"An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name."

A poor analogy, this implies that the assets gained were not of free choice or will, which is never the case in a bonus room. Assets are willingly given.

In Erotica1s Bonus Room torture itself is the MEANS whereby they accomplish their goal of, sooner or later, forcing the victim to leave the situation, at which point Erotica1 wins the Bonus Room. This is achieved by inflicting on the victim systemaric and deliberate acute psychological pain.

That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question.

Restating your thesis on the topic does not make it any more right.

.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5474 - 2014-03-27 15:47:50 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
This may be true to a point but people also need to be held accountable for their own actions.

If I were a Vegan and went to McDonalds and beat up the meat eaters would it be their fault because they let me beat them up or because they eat meat?


Abuse is abuse regarless of how it happens.
If you went up to the meat eaters and asked them to beat themselves up so you could film it and put it on youtube, and they did, whose fault is it then?

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Salvos Rhoska
#5475 - 2014-03-27 15:48:05 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Bolded an important qualifier there for emphasis. Last I checked, nothing was done against Sokhar's will so, even in the broadest definition, as provided by Wikipedia where you got that from, no torture took place.


See:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400280#post4400280

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5476 - 2014-03-27 15:49:26 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
You would be right if you were the only one who sang while everyone else at the party laughed at you. Alas, that's not how it works.
It is in music class at school sometimes.

Mental torture!


Again, not the same thing. Music class is part of your education. You're not singing in front of the class because you gave the teacher your lunch money and wont get it back until you perform.

Try again?

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#5477 - 2014-03-27 15:49:52 UTC
LordOfDespair wrote:


Stop signing your posts, it makes you look like an arrogant douche.

HAHAHAHA irony overload
Salvos Rhoska
#5478 - 2014-03-27 15:50:01 UTC
Tor Norman
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5479 - 2014-03-27 15:50:23 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Tor Norman wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Really ppl are supporting this ? All the in game scamming, pvp and what ever is fine, using Eve to pull someone out of the game so you can bully them isn't.

Even id they avoided the EULA and such this reflectts poorly on the Eve community and saying he did nothing wrong in game so it's fine is laughable. They used Eve to put him in the situation.

Send this to all the gaming sites BBC etc and see what the general response is.

Its not about Eve its about being a decent human being.

Tal

"His mark can leave the conversation at any time they choose."


Its not about the mark its about treating someone like that to get a laugh, you just can't justify it.

Implying that Erotica 1's actions require justification.

I talk about EVE trading and general space violence in my blog.

For the ISK and the yarr!
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5480 - 2014-03-27 15:50:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
PinkPanter wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:

Being vulnerable is not an offense to anybody. Taking advantage of the vulnerable for your own sadistic pleasure is.

But its not a violation of any rule in Eve.

It becomes a violation if you use this platform to lure people out of it using predatory / extortion / false promise techniques.


Uh, no it isn't. Lying to people to get them on teamspeak, or to get their email address, or to get yourself onto teamspeak, is a standard part of the metagame. If Eve is used to facilitate a crime using that information (such as email, whatever), then it becomes a violation.

Anslo wrote:

**** your rules. It's about common human civility. Not our problem if your moral compass is ******.

Yes I have morals in Eve.
No I don't care if you think I take the game too serious. I put 7 years into this **** so I damn well better be serious.


Well, if you want to ban someone, then talk about rules. If you want civility to be a rule, then we can add that. But its currently not a rule.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.