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Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#5441 - 2014-03-27 15:37:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
Alp Khan wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
No.

You are trying to make it appear as if Erotica 1 does not do all that mental torture and abuse over Teamspeak for his sick and disgusting pleasure.

Just because a victim shows vulnerability does not make Erotica 1's sadistic ploy and his disgusting mental torture justified.

Being vulnerable is not an offense to anybody. Taking advantage of the vulnerable for your own sadistic pleasure is.

This is why Erotica 1 needs to be cast away from this community until a time that he can establish himself to be reformed and rehabilitated by a certified health care professional.


I'm pretty sure sokhar is gonna be crossed if he finds out you think he's a vulnerable little victim.
I believe he's a grown man with a job as air traffic controller and a wife who loves him plenty.

Again, get your facts straight; asking someone to sing is NOT TORTURE in any way shape or form.
Dropping N-bombs and refusing to speak with someone from African descent = racistt.
Threatening to kill someone = mad.



The discussion is not and never was about Sokhar. We are not discussing the victim.
Yet you continue to mention Sokhar, and casually continue to drop bits of what you hint is real life information into your posts.
If you'd like to reach the Erotica 1 standards of psychopathy, please do go ahead and continue acting like this.


Oh, sorry, who were you implying to be vulnerable again? And comming from the guy who says some spaceship captain needs to see a shrink Roll
How do you think I score on your standards of psychopathy by proving you wrong again and again? Because really, I'm dying to find out (<- you threatening my life IRL??)

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Salvos Rhoska
#5442 - 2014-03-27 15:38:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."

Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers, in order to accomplish their purpose of causing the victim to leave the situation, against the will of the victim to fulfill the Bonus Rooms demands for the reward promised in the contract of the Bonus Room between the victim and the perpetrators.

It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.

It is also not necessary for the victim to have entered involuntarily into the situation in which the torture occurs.
It is immaterial how the victim ends up in the situation in which he is tortured, all that is material, is whether what the victim is subjected to in that situation, constitutes torture as defined above.

An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name. What the husband is doing to her, though superficially enabled by her remaining, nonetheless constitutes torture, as he is accomplishing the purposes of his will, namely of her remaining there for him to torture, against the will of the latter to leave the situation, as he knows full well she can and will not because then she is homeless and destitute.

In Erotica1s Bonus Room torture itself is the MEANS whereby they accomplish their goal and will, of, sooner or later, forcing the victim to leave the situation, at which point Erotica1 wins the Bonus Room. This is achieved by inflicting on the victim systemaric and deliberate acute psychological pain.

That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question.

A Dev has been made to sing for his ship. But he did not suffer acute psychological pain in the process.
It is evident from the recording, however that Sohkar and his wife, did.


Torture is internationally held illegal in almost every jurisdiction on Earth, including ALL international legal agencies.

Any even superficial indication of torture occuring, needs to be investigated thoroughly by all concerned authorities.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#5443 - 2014-03-27 15:38:48 UTC
Tor Norman wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Really ppl are supporting this ? All the in game scamming, pvp and what ever is fine, using Eve to pull someone out of the game so you can bully them isn't.

Even id they avoided the EULA and such this reflectts poorly on the Eve community and saying he did nothing wrong in game so it's fine is laughable. They used Eve to put him in the situation.

Send this to all the gaming sites BBC etc and see what the general response is.

Its not about Eve its about being a decent human being.

Tal

"His mark can leave the conversation at any time they choose."


Its not about the mark its about treating someone like that to get a laugh, you just can't justify it.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5444 - 2014-03-27 15:40:01 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
You are trying to make it appear as if Erotica 1 does not do all that mental torture and abuse
Asking someone to sing = mental abuse and torture

I remember being mentally abused and tortured and some birthday parties when I was a kid actually....

Roll


Asking someone to post naked pictures of their significant other with the false promise that they will get their assets back and having them write your name on their bodies with mayonnaise is far from asking someone to sing a song.

You are trying to whitewash Erotica 1's sadistic ploys and psychopathic mental torture on victims he derives from EVE Online.

Needless to say, you are failing at that. It wouldn't surprise me if you are an Erotica 1 associate or an alt of Erotica 1 himself.

PS. If you are an Erotica 1 alt, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you were abused as a children. Many victims of abuse who go rehabilitated turn to abusing others later in their lives.


Many proofs presented.

NOT.

You are inventing stuff as we go, are you?

D.

Bear


Another CSM member aside from Ripard Teg has acknowledged the authenticity of the further proof showing that Erotica 1's psychopathy is more extensive than it was revealed in the original blog post of Ripard Teg, yes.

As a member of a CFC alliance, you have access to GSF forums yourself. And yet you are claiming, rather maliciously, in an attempt to whitewash a psychopathic individual that there is no further proof that he has committed even more sadistic acts on victims he derived from EVE Online.

Erotica 1's posts, joyfully confessing to his psychopathic deeds and providing photographic/audio recordings are there to see.

My question is, are you going to continue to lie about this? Or are you going to feel shame at some point and perhaps even apologize for lying?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5445 - 2014-03-27 15:40:10 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:

Being vulnerable is not an offense to anybody. Taking advantage of the vulnerable for your own sadistic pleasure is.


But its not a violation of any rule in Eve.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5446 - 2014-03-27 15:40:24 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
Entering the bonus room is voluntary.

I'll probably be gone in an hour, try again then.

Regards,
Crumplecorn

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5447 - 2014-03-27 15:41:20 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
You are trying to make it appear as if Erotica 1 does not do all that mental torture and abuse
Asking someone to sing = mental abuse and torture

I remember being mentally abused and tortured and some birthday parties when I was a kid actually....

Roll


You and I both know that's not the same thing.
Indeed not, you can't get out of a birthday party just by pressing a button, and the consequences for throwing a tantrum are far worse than losing spacebucks.


You sing at a birthday party because you want the birthday boy/girl to feel happy (or at least pretend you do). You sing in the bonus room because you're greedy and trying to appease scumbags.

You would be right if you were the only one who sang while everyone else at the party laughed at you. Alas, that's not how it works.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#5448 - 2014-03-27 15:41:29 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."

Erotica1 inflicts systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, through means of several hours of subjecting the victim to demeaning and humiliating tasks alongside harassment and insulting from himself and his peers, in order to accomplish their purpose of causing the victim to leave the situation, against the will of the victim to fulfill the Bonus Rooms demands for the reward promised in the contract of the Bonus Room between the victim and the perpetrators.

It is not necessary to be restrained or prevented from being able to remove oneself from the situation, for it to constitue torture, and in this incidence, it is exactly that which the perpetrators are leveraging against the victim.

It is also not necessary for the victim to have entered involuntarily into the situation in which the torture occurs.
It is immaterial how the victim ends up in the situation in which he is tortured, all that is material, is whether what the victim is subjected to in that situation, constitutes torture as defined above.

An analogy would be a wife remaining in an abusive relationship with a husband who inflicts upon her systematic and deliberate acute psychological pain, because she knows that if she files for divorce, all the assets, including the house, would remain in the property of her husband, as they are in his name. What the husband is doing to her, though superficially enabled by her remaining, nonetheless constitutes torture, as he is accomplishing the purposes of his will, namely of her remaining there for him to torture, against the will of the latter to leave the situation, as he knows full well she can and will not because then she is homeless and destitute.

In Erotica1s Bonus Room torture itself is the MEANS whereby they accomplish their goal of, sooner or later, forcing the victim to leave the situation, at which point Erotica1 wins the Bonus Room. This is achieved by inflicting on the victim systemaric and deliberate acute psychological pain.

That Erotica1 causes the victims acute psychological pain, is evidenced by the psychological state the conduct they are subjected to in the Bonus Room results in. The victims are obviously suffering from it. Of that there is no question.

A Dev has been made to sing for his ship. But he did not suffer acute psychological pain in the process.
It is evident from the recording, however that Sohkar and his wife, did.


reported for (hilarious) spam

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5449 - 2014-03-27 15:41:34 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
So no CCP involvement or opinion of this type of behaviour originating in or taking place in their game? Well I might have some incentive for you, I forwarded all these links and audio files to the ESRB for review of your Teen rating. Perhaps a Mature rating will be more suitable, though will no doubt limit your player base potential. CCP, get control of this.

Note, thanks Prince Kobol for reminding me of PEGI, they too have since been contacted with links to audio, forum, etc for review and hopefully action.



Thank you.

I will also send this to the rating agency.


That's actually a bad ass idea.


No, it's a stupid idea that will be rejected by any rating agency out of hand. You cannot rate online interaction because for one, it complicates jurisdictions. Additionally, by law, and by practicality, ratings can only apply to existing created content, not content that is going out live across the internet. So they state that online interactions aren't rated as a warning that any content you are exposed to in online interactions may cross the line of what can be rated to begin with. It's not stating "do what you want cuz we don't rating," it's a statement of, "be careful with online interactions, we don't know what they might be or what laws apply".

As a matter of related interest, EVE Online hasn't even received a rating by the Australian agency responsible for such. We just get the same PEGI 12 rating that everyone else gets, even though PEGI anything isn't used here.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5450 - 2014-03-27 15:41:35 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Its not about the mark its about treating someone like that to get a laugh, you just can't justify it.
What, you mean asking them to do silly things for the promise of a reward? Justified? It's practically an institution.

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Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5451 - 2014-03-27 15:41:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


LOL, I got this vision of you typing furiously at the keyboard in fine 'that'll show him" fashion.


Irrelevant, non-argument, and ad-hom.

Quote:
The only important thing here is bolded. What established standard?


The same standard that says you cannot go from system to system bumping miners (or anyone else) for no reason, and no meaningful gain on your part. At the point Erotica had all his assets, there was nothing left to gain.

Quote:
And how do you know that E1 was using TS to avoid anything when lots of people who play EVE use TS because eve voice sucks?


If that were not the case, it would not be necessary to make the pedantic nitpick argument that this is "out of game behavior". Even if Erotica 1 didn't specifically pick TS to get out of the game client, he is more than intelligent enough to realize that a claim that it's "out of game" can be made, based on the same pedantic nitpickery Malcanis used. Moreover, Malcanis and the rest of the "no ban" crowd stipulate to the evasion by arguing that it's "out of game" behavior. Even if that wasn't the purpose for going to TS, it constructively is an evasion as soon as people make the "but it's out of game!" argument. Using a loophole is using a loophole even if you didn't intentionally put yourself in the position to use it when you started out.

Quote:
You didn't understand what Mal was saying, you should go back and spend the same time analyzing your mistake as you do analyzing others.


Yes, I did understand it. Malcanis made a fallacious, slippery slope argument. I, on the other hand, didn't make a mistake.

You not only didn't understand his argument (or you would recognize his errors), you didn't understand mine either, then revealed that it made you angry and required an emotional shiptoast response, as revealed with your first response, utterly devoid of argument, and now your second one with your irrelevant nonsense about "banging the keyboard." All you're doing with these is trying to score semantic, popularity contest points with those posters already inclined to agree with you anyhow.

While you're at it, since you don't think anything justifies real life physical violence (which I agree with you on), stop equating racist language to physical violence, too.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#5452 - 2014-03-27 15:42:22 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."
Entering the bonus room is voluntary.

Such typing, many long post, much wasted time, wow.


As in my example, entering into marriage union with a husband who later begins to torture her, is also voluntary.

It is immaterial to Erotica1s conduct fullfilling the definition of torture provided above, and as demonstrated in my reasoning here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400021#post4400021

Wow, this is the most convoluted world view I have ever seen:

Sokhar gives asset to E1 voluntarily
Sokhar enters voice communications voluntarily
Sokhar is asked politely to sing some disney songs and read from a paragraph of text

And according to Salvos/Sokhar/whoever, this is analogous to a wife entering into a relationship with an abusive husband, and voluntarily staying in the relationship because of 'fear of losing assets'?

Wow. Just wow. FYI most abused victims of domestic violence tend to stay in the relationship because of fear of further physical retribution on themselves or their loved ones, not because 'they might not have a roof over their heads'. While anecdotal, I have worked with children and women victims of domestic abuse before, and not a single one of them claims that they didn't file for divorce/run away earlier because 'then I wouldn't have a place to stay and would lose all assets'.

That's just sick, man.
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries
#5453 - 2014-03-27 15:42:59 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Thank you for your inquiry

ESRB greatly values your comments and questions, however due to the high volume of inquiries we receive, we may not be able to respond specifically to each and every one. We recommend that you review our FAQ and other areas of our website for answers to common questions.



We truly appreciate your interest in and support of the ESRB and will continue to work diligently to ensure that computer and video game consumers have the information necessary to make educated purchase decisions.



What did you write?

"Dear ESRB, I know you don't rate the online interactions of any online game that currently exists because it would quickly dissolve into the kind of morass that can be seen here < link to this thread >... but I think you need to increase the rating of EVE to Mature due to the online interactions that you don't rate."

Actually, given the hyperbole you've been spewing, I'm sure there's a "please think of the children" thrown in there for good measure as well.

Let me know how it all works out for you.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#5454 - 2014-03-27 15:43:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
There is a lot of talk about how the mark could have stopped the whole thing at any point.

So could Ero, either Ero did not know he was taking it too far, in which case well... or, he did know and chose to continue, in which case he would be no loss to Eve Online should he be removed from the game.


Ero is not responsible for Sohkar. Sohkar is.

If Sohkar didn't like it, he should not have consented to it, and should have withdrawn consent (disconnected) when he found he didn't like it. Sohkar is a grown man.


Ero could have stopped the whole thing at any point, but he chose to continue, so if CCP decides to take any action against Ero, then he is also responsible for the consequences.


I assume Ero is a grown man.


Yes, but it's not his responsibility to protect Sohkar. That's SOHKAR's responsibility.

Like if you are a Vegan and you walk into a McDonalds, it's not their responsibility to stop serving beef, t;s your responsibility to leave because you don't like people serving you beef.

As long as I've been alive I have marveled at the fact that the idea of personal responsibility (to yourself if no one else) is so foreign to people.

This may be true to a point but people also need to be held accountable for their own actions.

If I were a Vegan and went to McDonalds and beat up the meat eaters would it be their fault because they let me beat them up or because they eat meat?


Abuse is abuse regarless of how it happens.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#5455 - 2014-03-27 15:43:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
To those posting that what happens in the Bonus Room does not constitute torture:

"Since 1973Amnesty International has adopted the simplest, broadest definition of torture:

"Torture is the systematic and deliberate infliction of acute pain by one person on another, or on a third person, in order to accomplish the purpose of the former against the will of the latter."



So you're gonna bring Erotica1 before the Hague? You're comparing online karaoke to the Holocaust?
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#5456 - 2014-03-27 15:43:31 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:

Being vulnerable is not an offense to anybody. Taking advantage of the vulnerable for your own sadistic pleasure is.


But its not a violation of any rule in Eve.


It becomes a violation if you use this platform to lure people out of it using predatory / extortion / false promise techniques.
Kaius Fero
#5457 - 2014-03-27 15:43:36 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
...
I don't get it. Ero is supposed to take responsibility for himself AND for Sokhar? Why shouldn't Sokhar take responsibility for himself? Why would you apply double standards when it comes to taking responsibility for one's self?

Well, maybe there is no responsibility over Sokhar as a grown up man and EVE player, but when the man wife is involved.. you should step back and call it a day. That woman had nothing to do with EVE, the community and the whole glory hole concept. Instead, they started to fuk around with her too.

Anselmo & The Illegals
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#5458 - 2014-03-27 15:43:56 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
You would be right if you were the only one who sang while everyone else at the party laughed at you. Alas, that's not how it works.
It is in music class at school sometimes.

Mental torture!

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Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#5459 - 2014-03-27 15:43:58 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
You are trying to make it appear as if Erotica 1 does not do all that mental torture and abuse
Asking someone to sing = mental abuse and torture

I remember being mentally abused and tortured and some birthday parties when I was a kid actually....

Roll


Asking someone to post naked pictures of their significant other with the false promise that they will get their assets back and having them write your name on their bodies with mayonnaise is far from asking someone to sing a song.

You are trying to whitewash Erotica 1's sadistic ploys and psychopathic mental torture on victims he derives from EVE Online.

Needless to say, you are failing at that. It wouldn't surprise me if you are an Erotica 1 associate or an alt of Erotica 1 himself.

PS. If you are an Erotica 1 alt, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you were abused as a children. Many victims of abuse who go rehabilitated turn to abusing others later in their lives.


Many proofs presented.

NOT.

You are inventing stuff as we go, are you?

D.

Bear


Another CSM member aside from Ripard Teg has acknowledged the authenticity of the further proof showing that Erotica 1's psychopathy is more extensive than it was revealed in the original blog post of Ripard Teg, yes.

As a member of a CFC alliance, you have access to GSF forums yourself. And yet you are claiming, rather maliciously, in an attempt to whitewash a psychopathic individual that there is no further proof that he has committed even more sadistic acts on victims he derived from EVE Online.

Erotica 1's posts, joyfully confessing to his psychopathic deeds and providing photographic/audio recordings are there to see.

My question is, are you going to continue to lie about this? Or are you going to feel shame at some point and perhaps even apologize for lying?


Nope, nope and nope. Nobody said anything of the sort and Erotica never asked anything of the sort.
What you make of this is all to be accounted to your own sick little fantasy, I'm afraid.
To use the words of some other pitchfork and tinfoil hat wearing friends of yours; TAH'Ts LIBEL!

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Anslo
Scope Works
#5460 - 2014-03-27 15:43:58 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:

Being vulnerable is not an offense to anybody. Taking advantage of the vulnerable for your own sadistic pleasure is.


But its not a violation of any rule in Eve.

**** your rules. It's about common human civility. Not our problem if your moral compass is ******.

Yes I have morals in Eve.
No I don't care if you think I take the game too serious. I put 7 years into this **** so I damn well better be serious.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]