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Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#4781 - 2014-03-27 10:40:47 UTC
Dieterlin wrote:

Did I ever mention torture?

You and yours have been from the start. Yes.

Dieterlin wrote:
Oh, right, I never did, because this is not torture.

What was it than? Oh right;
Dieterlin wrote:
I DID, however, refer to it, several times, as harassment outside the scope of gameplay, which the bonus room obviously is. And if it were conducted within a CCP-run VOIP or chat channel, it would be a cut-and-dry violation of the EULA ("Specifically Prohibited Behavior" section 5, if you want to look it up).

It's not harrasment to ask an adult silly questions. It is bad if you threaten another adult to kill him and willy nilly drop N-Bombs while you are at it. Using ingame chat doesn't change any of that. Thanks for confirming you are just stirring the pot.

Dieterlin wrote:
Go post elsewhere, you're making GD worse, which is honestly must take some serious effort.

I WILL NOT BE SILENCED OR BULLIED BY THE LIKES OF YOU. GO. BACK. TO. WOW!

I'm gonna post this every time someone beats the poor dead horse;

What happend;
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: Here's all my isk
Ero: haha, you need to come on teamspeak and win a bonus round where I invent the rules as we go
Adult ATC: ok
Ero: read this text please
Adult ATC: Ok, N-BOMB, Gaybash, shout, scream, rant
Ero: Sing songs
Adult ATC: NO! N-BOMB, Gaybash, shout, scream, rant
Adult ATC: I'l gonna kill you!
Adult ATC: My wife will come and scream at you some more

How it should have been;
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: Here's all my isk
Ero: haha, you need to come on teamspeak and win a bonus round where I invent the rules as we go
Adult ATC: Wait what? Naaaah... You scammed me, well played.

What normal people do:
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: No way dude, I know it's just pixels but I want to buy space bling with them.


D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4782 - 2014-03-27 10:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kyperion wrote:
You keep using the same tired and false analogy over and over.

Ok.

I just want a harsh environment where adults who want a challenge can actually find a place to enjoy themselves.

Anyone else can just HTFU or GTFO.

We don't need to change EvE as a result of this situation and anyone who is calling for scamming, ganking, awoxing and other risks to be removed need to grow up and take responsibility for their own choices and the consequences of those choices.

No analogy, but not my normal approach to posting as I don't feel this kind of language helps move a discussion forward. It's not very productive for anyone, but still a valid expression of a view that the game is fine as it is.
Prince Kobol
#4783 - 2014-03-27 10:43:35 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
One other question, if E1 is such a great guy and has done no wrong, what the hell did he do to get kick out of the goons TWICE?

Lets all be honest here, when it comes to great well thought out scams and emergent gameplay, the Goons are on the top of the pile by a long distance.

I love the way the goons have made scamming, emergent and meta gaming into a an art form and Eve is better off for it, but why does a group of people who pride themselves on these things and the whole HTFU culture (which again I love) kick out E1 twice?

What did E1 do that was so out of line that they kicked him twice?

After according to some in this thread E1 is a hero of Eve and should be applauded for his efforts yet a group of people who have helped put Eve on the map with this style of gameplay have found reasons to kick him twice.


Maybe he didn't have the right mental condition, who knows? You aren't gonna tell us, are you? Lol

No matter, this thread isn't about goons so I see why you are trying to make it as such.


Lol, I wish I did know.

I do not think it is of topic because it would show what kind of person E1 actually is.

If he is the kind of person who has even creeped the goons out to such a point that they have kicked him twice because of his actions then the guy this great people are trying to make him out to be but somebody who likes to humiliate and cause mental anguish to people for his own private sick pleasure and well, I think most people would not want him to be part of our community.


Wesley Otsdarva
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4784 - 2014-03-27 10:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Wesley Otsdarva
Prince Kobol wrote:
Also for those who have stated E1 has not broken the EULA / TOS well do not be so sure.

"You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: filing support tickets with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or support tickets; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee."

The important bit is the part bolded, it essentially gives CCP the right to ban anybody for whatever they deemed to be abuse or harassment.

They do list out of game activities here but the examples are directed at employees, yet the first line also mentions players.

The beauty of most EULA/TOS are that they are left vague to allow the developer room to maneuver for events which they have not anticipated, Eve being Eve were players are famous for their ingenuity, this is very important.


Also this.
"5. You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site."

If anyone threatens you, you are forced by the TOS to report it.
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4785 - 2014-03-27 10:46:55 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
You keep using the same tired and false analogy over and over.

Ok.

I just want a harsh environment where adults who want a challenge can actually find a place to enjoy themselves.

Anyone else can just HTFU or GTFO.

We don't need to change EvE as a result of this situation and anyone who is calling for scamming, ganking, awoxing and other risks to be removed need to grow up and take responsibility for their own choices and the consequences of those choices.

No analogy, but not my normal approach to posting as I don't feel this kind of language helps move a discussion forward.


Granted I've been away for hours doing that sleep thing.

But surely people are not suggesting changing the rules of the game over this? This is transgression of the rules (?). Rules need to be enacted, not changed.



The (?) above because CCP might thing it is not withing their jurisdiction/domain. I think it is, but hey.
Kyperion
#4786 - 2014-03-27 10:47:42 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
You keep using the same tired and false analogy over and over.

Ok.

I just want a harsh environment where adults who want a challenge can actually find a place to enjoy themselves.

Anyone else can just HTFU or GTFO.

We don't need to change EvE as a result of this situation and anyone who is calling for scamming, ganking, awoxing and other risks to be removed need to grow up and take responsibility for their own choices and the consequences of those choices.

No analogy, but not my normal approach to posting as I don't feel this kind of language helps move a discussion forward.


What challenge is there in parting a fool from his money? (specifically referring to scamming)

We clearly do need to change EVE, as it is the ONLY MMO where such things like this and that other nasty incident involving the mittani have ever taken place.....

make Combat as harsh as we can stand, fine. But do not pretend like the EVE community does not have a cancer, when we have two well published and documented cases of such depravity.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4787 - 2014-03-27 10:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Bjurn Akely wrote:
But surely people are not suggesting changing the rules of the game over this? This is transgression of the rules (?). Rules need to be enacted, not changed.

Yes, unfortunately that's exactly what has been suggested, that this situation should be used as a catalyst to ensure that those who want to play in safety can do so.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#4788 - 2014-03-27 10:48:37 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
...

Do you want to play in the Devil's playground, or have the freedom that comes from knowing you are not surrounded by douchebags?


It was already the Devil's Playground when i arrived in 2009.
Ethics and morality were never enforced, only consequences. By cops in Empire and by force of arms in null.
This nonsense, on the other hand, is using ingame scamming as a framework for highschool style sadism.
People like this never stop, they get stopped. They never say "Whoa i think we've gone a bit far now guys."
No need to have rustled jimmies, eventually something like this will result in the death of some poor miserable sap and the game will be ruined forever by it.

I'm actually wondering if i want to be part of this anymore.
Not that this is evil, just that it's really lame.






Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4789 - 2014-03-27 10:49:57 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:


Lol, I wish I did know.

I do not think it is of topic because it would show what kind of person E1 actually is.

If he is the kind of person who has even creeped the goons out to such a point that they have kicked him twice because of his actions then the guy this great people are trying to make him out to be but somebody who likes to humiliate and cause mental anguish to people for his own private sick pleasure and well, I think most people would not want him to be part of our community.




We did not kick him for creeping us out. It was due to the terrible posting and endless boasting.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#4790 - 2014-03-27 10:51:08 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
...
If he is the kind of person who has even creeped the goons out to such a point that they have kicked him twice because of his actions then the guy this great people are trying to make him out to be but somebody who likes to humiliate and cause mental anguish to people for his own private sick pleasure and well, I think most people would not want him to be part of our community.




HEAR HEAR! The game is fine, leave it alone.
Few people in it could use a foot in the arse, though.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
MajorBean
HandelsGilde-De
Outsmarted
#4791 - 2014-03-27 10:52:12 UTC
#Erotica1didnothingwrong
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4792 - 2014-03-27 10:52:27 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
You keep using the same tired and false analogy over and over.

Ok.

I just want a harsh environment where adults who want a challenge can actually find a place to enjoy themselves.

Anyone else can just HTFU or GTFO.

We don't need to change EvE as a result of this situation and anyone who is calling for scamming, ganking, awoxing and other risks to be removed need to grow up and take responsibility for their own choices and the consequences of those choices.

No analogy, but not my normal approach to posting as I don't feel this kind of language helps move a discussion forward.


What challenge is there in parting a fool from his money? (specifically referring to scamming)

We clearly do need to change EVE, as it is the ONLY MMO where such things like this and that other nasty incident involving the mittani have ever taken place.....

make Combat as harsh as we can stand, fine. But do not pretend like the EVE community does not have a cancer, when we have two well published and documented cases of such depravity.


I recall someone in WoW knifing someone else. Scamming people is an advertised feature of EVE and isnt going away.
Kyperion
#4793 - 2014-03-27 10:52:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:


Lol, I wish I did know.

I do not think it is of topic because it would show what kind of person E1 actually is.

If he is the kind of person who has even creeped the goons out to such a point that they have kicked him twice because of his actions then the guy this great people are trying to make him out to be but somebody who likes to humiliate and cause mental anguish to people for his own private sick pleasure and well, I think most people would not want him to be part of our community.




We did not kick him for creeping us out. It was due to the terrible posting and endless boasting.


I understand the terrible posting bit, but what Goon DOESN'T endlessly boast?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4794 - 2014-03-27 10:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kyperion wrote:
What challenge is there in parting a fool from his money? (specifically referring to scamming).

I don't personally scam anyone, but I don't imagine that there is any difficulty.

However, as opposed to changing the game to protect fools (not a great description of anyone, but using it to link back to the question), if the fools took greater responsilibity for their choices, there would be no scamming either.

Problem solved by the players changing their behaviour, not by changing the environment to suit the lowest common denominator.
Dieterlin
Reckless-Endangerment
Manifesto.
#4795 - 2014-03-27 10:56:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Dieterlin
Danalee wrote:
Dieterlin wrote:

Did I ever mention torture?

You and yours have been from the start. Yes.


Did I transform into Ripard Teg when I disagreed with you? Or are you just not going to admit that you're wrong, and that I never said it was torture, or even made an analogy with torture?

Quote:

What was it than? Oh right;
Dieterlin wrote:
I DID, however, refer to it, several times, as harassment outside the scope of gameplay, which the bonus room obviously is. And if it were conducted within a CCP-run VOIP or chat channel, it would be a cut-and-dry violation of the EULA ("Specifically Prohibited Behavior" section 5, if you want to look it up).

It's not harrasment to ask an adult silly questions. It is bad if you threaten another adult to kill him and willy nilly drop N-Bombs while you are at it. Using ingame chat doesn't change any of that. Thanks for confirming you are just stirring the pot.


I WILL NOT BE SILENCED OR BULLIED BY THE LIKES OF YOU. GO. BACK. TO. WOW!



I'm pretty sure it IS harassment to:

ME, LITERALLY ONE PAGE AGO wrote:

...screw with the guy's head for like an hour and a half, make fun of his speech impediment, and in general act like a massive a**hole to the guy


But you ignore things that aren't convenient for your argument, so go ahead and post more. Erotica 1 needs you to be his knight in shining armour.

Maybe if you copy and paste a bit more...
Kyperion
#4796 - 2014-03-27 10:56:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
You keep using the same tired and false analogy over and over.

Ok.

I just want a harsh environment where adults who want a challenge can actually find a place to enjoy themselves.

Anyone else can just HTFU or GTFO.

We don't need to change EvE as a result of this situation and anyone who is calling for scamming, ganking, awoxing and other risks to be removed need to grow up and take responsibility for their own choices and the consequences of those choices.

No analogy, but not my normal approach to posting as I don't feel this kind of language helps move a discussion forward.


What challenge is there in parting a fool from his money? (specifically referring to scamming)

We clearly do need to change EVE, as it is the ONLY MMO where such things like this and that other nasty incident involving the mittani have ever taken place.....

make Combat as harsh as we can stand, fine. But do not pretend like the EVE community does not have a cancer, when we have two well published and documented cases of such depravity.


I recall someone in WoW knifing someone else. Scamming people is an advertised feature of EVE and isnt going away.


If something doesn't dramatically change, EVE will only see behavior like this increase. As long as Scamming is allowed, there will only ever be more Erotica 1's in EVE.
Salvos Rhoska
#4797 - 2014-03-27 10:57:23 UTC
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?

Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Prince Kobol
#4798 - 2014-03-27 10:58:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:


Lol, I wish I did know.

I do not think it is of topic because it would show what kind of person E1 actually is.

If he is the kind of person who has even creeped the goons out to such a point that they have kicked him twice because of his actions then the guy this great people are trying to make him out to be but somebody who likes to humiliate and cause mental anguish to people for his own private sick pleasure and well, I think most people would not want him to be part of our community.




We did not kick him for creeping us out. It was due to the terrible posting and endless boasting.



Lol.. a goon get banned for terrible posting and endless boasting, that would mean every goon would be perma banned within a few days on every forum :p
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#4799 - 2014-03-27 10:58:37 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?

Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win?


You asked that a few times and got answered even more times.
Stop trolling us.

I'm gonna post this every time someone beats the poor dead horse;

What happend;
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: Here's all my isk
Ero: haha, you need to come on teamspeak and win a bonus round where I invent the rules as we go
Adult ATC: ok
Ero: read this text please
Adult ATC: Ok, N-BOMB, Gaybash, shout, scream, rant
Ero: Sing songs
Adult ATC: NO! N-BOMB, Gaybash, shout, scream, rant
Adult ATC: I'l gonna kill you!
Adult ATC: My wife will come and scream at you some more

How it should have been;
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: Here's all my isk
Ero: haha, you need to come on teamspeak and win a bonus round where I invent the rules as we go
Adult ATC: Wait what? Naaaah... You scammed me, well played.

What normal people do:
Ero: Give me your isk and I double it.
Adult ATC: No way dude, I know it's just pixels but I want to buy space bling with them.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Salvos Rhoska
#4800 - 2014-03-27 10:59:42 UTC
Danalee wrote:
You asked that a few times and got answered even more times.


False. Neither question has been answered.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
What exactly and specifically must the victim do in order to win the Bonus Round?

Is it so, that it is required that the victim must submit to commensurate abuse, humiliation, degradation, and the assignment of arbitrary demands, in order to win?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent