EVE General Discussion

I see a lot of people using law and rules as a shield as if this was some kind of government. There are no laws saying what he did was wrong and so he can't be punished sort of thing. Fallowed by arguments saying if you punish him you change the laws and people will exploit those laws.
Eve is not a government it is more like a home or a store. If I don't like your attitude I will ask you to get out of my home. Stores kick people out for being rude all the time and they don't even have to break any rules to be kicked out.

One of the CSM's asked what stops them from banning homosexuals or homophobics. The answer to that is nothing... nothing stops them now however.

If this was my game/house I would ban the lot of them even the victim at least temporarily. It might not be breaking the rules but you don't get to come in to my house and **** up the place and I just so happen to have the right to refuse service to anyone for anything... that part is even in the rules.

/thread

Yeah, whatever.

By your own reasoning it doesn't count because it was made outside the game and thus breaks no rules.

What's good for the goose...and all that stuff.

Mr Epeen

The actions of Erotica, though distasteful, are not illegal. If the EVE community feels so strongly about that person, players can deal with the matter their own way: We're a creative bunch, there are ways to make Erotica's EVE experience unpleasant enough for him to ragequit - But this won't happen, we either don't care as much as we say we do, or we're content with 'fighting the good fight' only when others have to do the hard/dirty work.

The victim was not forced to endure that whole thing, no one pointed a gun to his head or threatened his family. If you're attached to your space pixels enough to go apeshit when you lose them this way, a tasteless prank is the least of your mental problems.

If you really have a problem with what happened, be the damn hero you're painting yourself to be. Do some spy work, mittens-style, find out everything about Erotica, and make his EVE experience hell.

Umm wait are you comparing in game behavior to RL??? I would be in prison for murder if RL laws applied to Eve.

Bottom line is if he scammed him out of in game assets and didn't attack his RL person there's nothing wrong.

This is a game that--by design--allows and sometimes encourages people to be assholes, and no one wants that to change. Actually, that last bit isn't quite true. There are a lot of players who would love it if EvE were just a space version of unicorn hugs and puppy dog dreams. But the core of the population doesn't want that to change.

I think that what Erotica 1 does is gross. I think that given enough time Erotica or someone like him doing something similar will happen to pick just the right player in the right kind of mental condition and end up precipitating a suicide. It seems inevitable that if you create a game environment that encourages people to be terrible to one another, people will be as terrible to each other as they can get away with. And there's at least one person out there who would really get off on "causing" someone to commit suicide. To be clear, I'm not saying Erotica is that person. He probably has limits. But there is almost certainly someone out there who doesn't.

But here's the problem: we have some general guidelines about griefing and harassment being defined as a person or a group of people specifically targeting an individual and doing so repeatedly. Because Erotica doesn't (to my limited knowledge, anyway) ever do this to the same person twice, he skirts the rules as they are currently assumed to exist.

I'm being vague above because I don't know that CCP has ever actually come out and said precisely how griefing and harassment are defined. I think they like to have some wiggle room. Maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, if CCP does something to Erotica over this incident, it's going to be very tough to do it without setting a precedent that takes away from the core of EvE gameplay. The lines all around are pretty blurry. You can (very fairly) describe what Erotica 1 does as preying on those of a certain mindset and taking joy in inflicting misery on them.

But you could also say the same thing about your run-of-the-mill corp thief, awoxer, pirate, scammer, or ninja salvager. That description would be just as fair from other points of view.

This is the internet; everyone is a monster to someone. Yes. You too.

The completely EvE response to this is, "No real life harm (to either party), no foul, no action against any of the involved players."

I don't know if CCP will choose that response, though, because a) this kind of thing is headed in a truly bad direction even if this particular event wasn't horrible, b) human empathy, c) PR, or d) some combination of the above.

One of the nice things about running a game as opposed to, say, a republic, is that there are no rights, there are no rules except what CCP says.

You can make a strong argument that the "victim" should be banned for making death threats and showering verbal abuse and racism on another player. Without a doubt, this is strong.

You can also make the argument that Erotica 1, alts, and friends should get banned because because they actually do repeatedly harass and grief a very specific group of people: people who are in a mental condition to self-select their way into the bonus room.
I think this is less strong, but strong enough.

CCP can do either one or both of those without altering core game play though. They can do it by stating what we all know is true: the lines about griefing and harassment are fuzzy and ill-defined. They act when they see fit because they can. And they can act on this without saying a single thing for people to generalize from. Or they can say nothing. Or they can do nothing.

And that's fine too.

The bottom line is that this is an example of "EvE is real". All the white knighting about the "victim" is probably mostly coming from the people who would really prefer that EvE turned into rainbow unicorn farts online. All the people defending Erotica 1 are probably just as scummy as I think Erotica 1 is. And to both of those groups of people, I am probably the worst kind of player who has ever existed because I use colgate instead of crest, or I am a member of RvB, or because I almost never log on, and therefore enjoy the ability to forum warrior without being available to blow up in-game.

I am a monster in the eve universe. Just like you.

One thing I can say with some certainty is that Erotica 1 enjoys publicity. I'm pretty sure all possible arguments about this topic have been made in one way or another. Everything else is just feeding his ego. I suggest stopping. Let this thread die. Wait for CCP to respond or not respond. More of this is just fodder for Erotica 1 to get off on.

Then ill adjust it

Make so when scamming individual players and or griefing individual players you can only use IN-GAME mechanisms
E.G i decide o become a scammer

I choose to scam a person out of their isk and assets . I use out of game mechanisms to do so it is illegal

E.G I decide to be a spy or thief within a corp/ alliance

I use out of game mechanisms like Teamspeak . This is fine as my intent is to steal from a corporation, and inflict financial damage to a in-game entity , that consists of real people , but it is not specifically directed at them . It is done with the purpose of theft of goods not to DELIBERATELY cause someone psychological harm. Or it is done to benefit my alliance not out of intent to cause the poeple in said corp/alliance duress.

If one of them made RL threats, racist/ or homophobic comments CCP should take action. I think that's just inexcusable. It doesn't matter if it's in local chat or on Teamspeak. I'm all for the in game content for example you should be allowed to kill in game... NOT in RL... If someone can't separate the two perhaps they shouldn't play Eve or any other MMO where they could harm other people in RL

There's blackmail, & then there's linking your Amazon.com profile in an EVE chat that you later post on to a public pastebin which reveals some pretty nasty things about that guy you thought was only getting people to rub mayonaise on their chest.

Well, if you want to change a thread's conversation, bombard it with posts that directs readers to towards same focus.
Guess who's been working hard