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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4021 - 2014-03-26 23:34:14 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

+1

And you should not be shy about calling it like it is - torture, plain and simple.

And EVE community does not stand for this sort of thing.

BAN THEM ALL>


You should be ashamed of yourself to equate being made fun of on the internet with real torture. Anyone who has used that word to describe what happened to Sohkar The Consenting Adult should be banned. Because the EVE community does not stand for people to cheapen real suffering and real victims.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dieterlin
Reckless-Endangerment
Manifesto.
#4022 - 2014-03-26 23:34:20 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Last one Lol

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"It's funny and he deserved it because he was stupid. Also because it was funny."
The way you take this personal pleasure in how the victim was treated makes you a creep to my eyes.


No, It's funny to me. (<- period) AND he's stupid (<- we all agree there, no?)
Since nobody was harmed in any way shape or form, I'm confident in laughing about his hate filled little balloon bursting.
He is as much a victim of abuse as Chico, Harpo, and Groucho were on their tv show. In other words; Not real.

You find me creepy? I find you clingy. Good thing we aren't sharing bunks at space camp, because I'd prank you soooo hard if we would be.

D. OUT. (I promise Lol)



Except there clearly *was* harm, what Ero1 did is blatantly harassment.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#4023 - 2014-03-26 23:34:21 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
embrel wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
There are real people going to sleep at night with empty bellies and no roof over their heads, but God forbid you white knight freaks of nature doing anything about that


So, you think that basically as long as somewhere somebody does have an empty belly all other perceived problems are irrelevant?



YES.

Like I said, crying about "bullying" between two consenting adults in a videogame is a textbook first world problem.

Go volunteer at a soup kitchen if you're really so concerned with the plight of humanity.


Way to lower the bar, really, really low.

"First world problems" is a phrase invented by rich people who don't want to have to obey laws. No, really.

Soon ALL problems will be easily dismissed, anyone not starving to death in agony will be a whiner, who is "entitled".


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4024 - 2014-03-26 23:35:07 UTC
Simyaldee wrote:
The victim should be held accountable for his homophobic and racial slurs, especially if Erotica 1 is held responsible for his actions I agree, I hate that this man issued threats, and slurs. But he only said these under duress, and should receive a punishment appropriate for a man who was deliberately provoked into such actions.

Erotica 1's actions were not made under duress, they were unprovoked, unnecessary and coached to deliver the maximum amount of humiliation possible. And unlike the victim, who might show remorse for his words if he was asked, Erotica 1 apparently see's nothing wrong at all with his actions.

If someone kills someone deliberately, with pre-meditation and no sufficient cause its called Murder, or Murder One. If a victim of abuse lashes out at there abuser, whether its pre-meditated or not, the prosecuter will almost always give them a lighter charge.

If we ban Erotica 1 then where do we draw the line? Should we just ban all Gankers, Scammers, Griefers, etc. The line is pretty obvious. When the actions are of sufficient duration and scope to be defined as harassment, and when the sole and only reason for the action is to harass another player. Erotica 1 sole purpose was to harass and humiliate the victim, and he did so after the scam was already completed. This is not about scams, this is about Harassment. Not in-game Harassment such as Target specific Ganking or Hell camping a station which involves in game mechanics for the main purpose of in game consequences.

But Harassing a man just to see how much he can take, how much you can make him do, and promising him something in return if he just endures the abuse for a tiny bit longer.

God that's a lot of words. Will be waiting for intelligent counter-arguments, will probably be waiting forever.



Agree with most of what is stated here. To deal with the Scammers and griefers i believe a policy of only allowing the use in-game tools and a stronger EULA and TOS is necessary .

The victim comments should be punished but no where near the same level as erotica1 . Yes what he said was Racist , but also under pressure (duress) , as such greater lenancy towards his actions should be given by CCP .

Personally i would say Perma ban erotica1 and all accounts this individual player has. The victim should receive a 48hr ban to cool off, but nothing more as he was under psychological pressure (duress) at the time of the commentary .
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4025 - 2014-03-26 23:36:37 UTC
Dieterlin wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Last one Lol

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"It's funny and he deserved it because he was stupid. Also because it was funny."
The way you take this personal pleasure in how the victim was treated makes you a creep to my eyes.


No, It's funny to me. (<- period) AND he's stupid (<- we all agree there, no?)
Since nobody was harmed in any way shape or form, I'm confident in laughing about his hate filled little balloon bursting.
He is as much a victim of abuse as Chico, Harpo, and Groucho were on their tv show. In other words; Not real.

You find me creepy? I find you clingy. Good thing we aren't sharing bunks at space camp, because I'd prank you soooo hard if we would be.

D. OUT. (I promise Lol)



Except there clearly *was* harm, what Ero1 did is blatantly harassment.


What "harm"? Being laughed at? In that case my alliance mates have some stuff to answer for.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#4026 - 2014-03-26 23:37:12 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:

It's kinda like holding a deck of cards right? Life threats vs ban? Which looks worse? Maybe a judge would decide wisely what happens to racist vulgar individuals.



Somewhere along the lines you have blurred the lines between the victim and predator. E1 and his accomplices set out to cause emotional harm to another human being - premeditated if you will. They used calculated manipulation and tactics to accomplish this.

After what was is 2 hours, the victim snapped and lashed out in a emotional manner. I don't agree with what was said but at the end of the day it was E1 who woke up that morning with the intention to cause harm (emotional) to another human being, and are in the wrong. Who hasn't said something they didn't really mean in the height of a argument?

If you beat an animal until it defends itself and bites you, who is in the wrong?



:OOOOOOOOOOOOO

PUT THAT ANIMAL DOWN!

(funnily enough in this day and age it is true)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4027 - 2014-03-26 23:37:57 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
embrel wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
There are real people going to sleep at night with empty bellies and no roof over their heads, but God forbid you white knight freaks of nature doing anything about that


So, you think that basically as long as somewhere somebody does have an empty belly all other perceived problems are irrelevant?



YES.

Like I said, crying about "bullying" between two consenting adults in a videogame is a textbook first world problem.

Go volunteer at a soup kitchen if you're really so concerned with the plight of humanity.


Way to lower the bar, really, really low.

"First world problems" is a phrase invented by rich people who don't want to have to obey laws. No, really.

Soon ALL problems will be easily dismissed, anyone not starving to death in agony will be a whiner, who is "entitled".




Translation:

"My heart bleeds, but I'd rather not get out of my chair so I'm complaining about stuff on the internet."

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4028 - 2014-03-26 23:37:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
He's a sadistic & really creepy person.



He probably is. What i wonder is in what warped world is creepy and sadistic worse than Racist and willing to Threaten someone's life and family.


Nevermind the part where he & several other people did their best over two hours to illicit this exact response. You seem to be justifying the act with the result, which was clearly intended.



Which doesn't matter because the grown man consented to it and did not disconnect.

Erotica could have had him in TS for 10 hours, or 100. There is no excuse AT ALL for threating to do bodily harm to a man, and his family and to racially abuse people.


He took advantage of someone, and you can't understand that person got upset and angry.... welcome to the real world...

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#4029 - 2014-03-26 23:38:15 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
I think thread fatigue is kicking in..


lol I think that kicked in about 100 pages ago :D
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4030 - 2014-03-26 23:38:18 UTC
olan2005 wrote:


7 . This kind of brutal humiliation of people and psychological bullying through ransom of assets , needs to be stated by CCP to be illegal when using out of game mechanisms. BASICALLY MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO INVITE PEOPLE TO TEAMSPEAK SO FORTH WHEN YOUR SCAMMING THEM . This keeps everything within the EULA by keeping it in-game. As such it can be handled by CCP within the EULA framework



Are you serious, right now?

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Ivan Krividus
Cold Lazarus Inc
The-Expanse
#4031 - 2014-03-26 23:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivan Krividus
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Pranks pranks pranks, all good fun.
But there's always that sadistic poser who has to hammer it beyond fun into just tragic.



This. Is what Erotica1 does funny? Yes. Is he right when he claims to create 'emergent gameplay/content'? Yes. But he went too far. There's a difference between messing with someone in EVE (and this includes taking all their assets, etc.) and causing pain to someone in real life. There is a difference between kicking some guys ass in-game for him to scream and swear at you and deliberately inflicting emotional pain on someone just for the hell of it. In EVE, its ok to be a villain, but its not in real life. Would he have done this to some random kid at school, or some dude on the street? no.

Erotica has obviously crossed a line, even if it was an extremely blurry line. And making fun of speech impediment and other things along those lines is harassment. It doesn't matter if the victim was dumb enough to enter the bonus room for a long time anyway. If a rapist convinced me in real life to head over to his house and I got raped because of it, the crime of **** was still committed. Its a slightly extreme analogy, but the bottom line is that what Erotica did was wrong.

Truth be told, most EVE players are intelligent. Erotica probably knows that he went to far, or wanted the negative publicity. In any event, he is going to have to face a shitstorm of this debate and naming and shaming for a while to come. Is it what he wanted? We don't know. Getting back on topic, i'm surprised that anyone could find pleasure in harming someone else like this. Its a bit more than a prank, and even those siding with "HTFU" will agree that this is far more debatable than whiners complaining about how someone popped their barge or something.

Then again, its just a game. Maybe Erotica has exposed how immature and childish gamers can be on both sides, perpetrator or victim. Its just a game, guys. Calm down.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4032 - 2014-03-26 23:38:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

+1

And you should not be shy about calling it like it is - torture, plain and simple.

And EVE community does not stand for this sort of thing.

BAN THEM ALL>


You should be ashamed of yourself to equate being made fun of on the internet with real torture. Anyone who has used that word to describe what happened to Sohkar The Consenting Adult should be banned. Because the EVE community does not stand for people to cheapen real suffering and real victims.

Considering how everyone's suffering is personal to them, you're not really in any position to tell him his suffering isn't real. It's real to him, so why does it have to be real to you?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries
#4033 - 2014-03-26 23:40:05 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
7 . This kind of brutal humiliation of people and psychological bullying through ransom of assets , needs to be stated by CCP to be illegal when using out of game mechanisms. BASICALLY MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO INVITE PEOPLE TO TEAMSPEAK SO FORTH WHEN YOUR SCAMMING THEM . This keeps everything within the EULA by keeping it in-game. As such it can be handled by CCP within the EULA framework


This would likely have an unintended effect on awoxing and corporate espionage.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#4034 - 2014-03-26 23:40:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You should be ashamed of yourself to equate being made fun of on the internet with real torture. Anyone who has used that word to describe what happened to Sohkar The Consenting Adult should be banned.

Dear friend, unrustle your jimmies.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#4035 - 2014-03-26 23:41:13 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Last one Lol

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"It's funny and he deserved it because he was stupid. Also because it was funny."
The way you take this personal pleasure in how the victim was treated makes you a creep to my eyes.


No, It's funny to me. (<- period) AND he's stupid (<- we all agree there, no?)
Since nobody was harmed in any way shape or form, I'm confident in laughing about his hate filled little balloon bursting.
He is as much a victim of abuse as Chico, Harpo, and Groucho were on their tv show. In other words; Not real.

You find me creepy? I find you clingy. Good thing we aren't sharing bunks at space camp, because I'd prank you soooo hard if we would be.

D. OUT. (I promise Lol)




Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they were not harmed.

That is actually why so many countries are taking such a serious looking into the thing that is cyber bullying. Often young children do not understand the repercussions of their actions at all.

It amuses me that you can subscribe to the fact you think he was not harmed at all. Physically no, but do you really think this had no effect on him (or his wife?)

You tell me with a straight face that you think everyone in that chat went out to the pub afterwards and had a joolly old chat and a few rounds. (Even the victim)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Dieterlin
Reckless-Endangerment
Manifesto.
#4036 - 2014-03-26 23:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dieterlin
Quote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dieterlin wrote:

No, It's funny to me. (<- period) AND he's stupid (<- we all agree there, no?)
Since nobody was harmed in any way shape or form, I'm confident in laughing about his hate filled little balloon bursting.
He is as much a victim of abuse as Chico, Harpo, and Groucho were on their tv show. In other words; Not real.

You find me creepy? I find you clingy. Good thing we aren't sharing bunks at space camp, because I'd prank you soooo hard if we would be.

D. OUT. (I promise Lol)



Except there clearly *was* harm, what Ero1 did is blatantly harassment.


What "harm"? Being laughed at? In that case my alliance mates have some stuff to answer for.


Did you stop reading at the comma? Here, let me copy the other half of my sentence into a quote box, so you can finish reading it.

Quote:
what Ero1 did is blatantly harassment.


Now, just to make everything perfectly clear, let's go look up a definition for Harassment!

Wikipedia wrote:
Harassment covers a wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing


I think we can all agree that what Ero1 did was out-of-game harassment of a player for his own amusement, which is not something I think should be tolerated by CCP.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#4037 - 2014-03-26 23:42:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
embrel wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
There are real people going to sleep at night with empty bellies and no roof over their heads, but God forbid you white knight freaks of nature doing anything about that


So, you think that basically as long as somewhere somebody does have an empty belly all other perceived problems are irrelevant?



YES.

Like I said, crying about "bullying" between two consenting adults in a videogame is a textbook first world problem.

Go volunteer at a soup kitchen if you're really so concerned with the plight of humanity.


Way to lower the bar, really, really low.

"First world problems" is a phrase invented by rich people who don't want to have to obey laws. No, really.

Soon ALL problems will be easily dismissed, anyone not starving to death in agony will be a whiner, who is "entitled".




Translation:

"My heart bleeds, but I'd rather not get out of my chair so I'm complaining about stuff on the internet."


Translation: i lost an internet argument, so arguing on the internet is for losers



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4038 - 2014-03-26 23:42:42 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
olan2005 wrote:
To deal with the Scammers and griefers i believe a policy of only allowing the use in-game tools and a stronger EULA and TOS is necessary .

So just eliminate corp and alliance griefing and spying? Most require you to join TS. If you made scamming or griefing in Teamspeak a TOS violation ALL would require it. So if you scammed or griefed their alliance/corp you would be banned for TOS violation.
Mikey Aivo
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#4039 - 2014-03-26 23:42:46 UTC
Its no different than a goon recruitment scam. You take his assets and wait til he figures out hes been scammed. When completed post logs on goonfleet for everyone in the cfc to call you a hero. Might take an hour might take a day might take 3 days. Doesnt matter. I support both. Erotica had no idea how long it would take for this guy to figure it out and was simply playing the role of scammer, could of been 10 hours could of been 10 minutes
Lady Areola Fappington
#4040 - 2014-03-26 23:43:24 UTC
H aVo K wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
7 . This kind of brutal humiliation of people and psychological bullying through ransom of assets , needs to be stated by CCP to be illegal when using out of game mechanisms. BASICALLY MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO INVITE PEOPLE TO TEAMSPEAK SO FORTH WHEN YOUR SCAMMING THEM . This keeps everything within the EULA by keeping it in-game. As such it can be handled by CCP within the EULA framework


This would likely have an unintended effect on awoxing and corporate espionage.



Not to mention, destroy the ability TO scam in one fell swoop.

"Hey man gimmee 1bil ISK I'll double it!"
"OK, log on to Teamspeak and ask for the ISK there."
". . ."
"Knew it, scammy mcscammer!"

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide