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Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#3921 - 2014-03-26 22:40:00 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
I just keep torturing you poor guys with my posts... Sickening. No different to real-life **** or pedophiles luring victims over the internet.


Ok spirit, good you came clean. Now pray the bad away and get some perspective about what is what.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Druthlen
The Carlisle Group
#3922 - 2014-03-26 22:40:45 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Upde wrote:

that is not even in the same ballpark. Posting a kill mail publicly v posting a recording of someone going through a humiliation aren't even in the same town sport.


Still trying to grasp how volunteering to sing songs is humiliation.

Posting kill mails is clearly meant to humiliate the victim, especially in a gank, and the perps don't even ask you if you're ok with them posting your loss.



Can you really be this ignorant of inside game and outside game? Or are you trolling? I cant tell. I wonder if you can even tell anymore?
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#3923 - 2014-03-26 22:41:47 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Upde wrote:

that is not even in the same ballpark. Posting a kill mail publicly v posting a recording of someone going through a humiliation aren't even in the same town sport.


Still trying to grasp how volunteering to sing songs is humiliation.

Posting kill mails is clearly meant to humiliate the victim, especially in a gank, and the perps don't even ask you if you're ok with them posting your loss.


Give me all of your assets, I will give you my TS address and you can do your best to sing to me, if you pass that "test" I might ask you to put some mayo on your face and take a pic, then based on my whim I will keep your stuff and expose your stupidity to your ruthless peers via a recording.

Ready? go...

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3924 - 2014-03-26 22:42:47 UTC
Katkon Darnok wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:
Abla Tive wrote:
Hours of humiliation is clearly abuse.

Abuse is clearly against the terms of service.

Violation of terms of service is legitimate grounds for banning.

Where is the confusion?


The Eula for the millionth time states "in the game" not outside the game in ts3 mumble vent facechat ect ect ect. Which part are you unsure of?


Technically, the EULA gives CCP the freedom to ban pretty much whomever they please for "inappropriate conduct". If you read it carefully it DOES state the following....

"CCP may establish Rules of Conduct (discussed below) for players accessing the System and may, but is not obligated to, monitor and take action regarding inappropriate conduct."

... And while it DOES list specific behavior-related banable offences, it doesn't state that these are the ONLY banable offences. They absolutely have the right per EULA, and - quite frankly - as a business. And no court of law would revolt against a ban in this instance. While the offense in question didn't happen "in" EVE, it 100% revolved around EVE and even involved transfer/APIs "in-game" DURING the bonus around. Any "reasonable" person would suggest that E1 attempted to explicitly avoid EULA knowing that the bonus round, as managed here, was a violation of terms and conditions. I think he even stated this explicitly.

This is not a EULA issue, it's an ethics issue.


Im gonna make this simple for you. I live in a foriegn country outside of CCP's jurisdiction. Right now I'm gonna print up a bunch of t-shirts with CCP logos on them. Is the EULA gonna stop me somehow?

Nah Maybe I'll take the model files for a rifter or an astero and put them into my 3-d printer and make some toys to play with while we debate. Regardless. The Eula specifically states "in the game" that does not mean they can barge into my living room and stop me from printing my own eve toys. Does this make sense to you? The context of any harassment happened outside the confines of the virtual "in the game" setting. As such it is open for E1 to take this to court if he really wants to. Justification for death threats is felony charges so....................Good riddance. Biggots and racists wear orange jumpsuits from what i understand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3925 - 2014-03-26 22:43:05 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
You know sometimes I do a quick awox on a corp & they threaten to cut my throat while I'm asleep. Other times I do a quick 20 minute scam for all of their assets & isk & they want to box me when they realise what happened 4 days later. I tend to just let this go & think nothing of it because it's a heat of the moment thing & never produces any results. Here's the problem I have with Erotica1: He's a sadistic & really creepy person.

It's one thing to do a quick thing for profit & leave them wondering what the hell just happened, but it's quite another to do the kind of crap you do to people over the course of several hours.

Would you like to know more?


God knows I dont like goons, but for once, I agree with you buddy.

A line was crossed. And not by an inch, but by a mile.

Ban online predators and be done with it. Unpleasant taste from having to deal with them will fade in a day and we can all go back to shooting each other.
Katkon Darnok
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3926 - 2014-03-26 22:44:14 UTC
Upde wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
dexington wrote:
...

If CCP decides to get involved everyone playing eve is going to lose a little of the freedom we currently have in eve, and i don't really think anyone wants that.



The internet in general is losing freedom because of exactly this, in fact any environment where people are allowed to use common sense is ruined by the tiny toxic minority who have the need to be transgressive to realize themselves.
So we end up with rules and mods and cops and secret police and undercover agents and detectives, all because of the growing pains (or the refusal to grow up) of a few tools.
I don't even hate Ero1 and Co. ...I've seen how high school boys act when there's no teachers around.
In this case the regulating adult influence was meant to be Ero1, so yeah.





with great freedom comes great responsibility. If the community cannot use the freedom bestowed upon us by CCP responsibility and in the "spirit" of the game as it was meant then restrictive measures are the next likely path. I hope for all that EVE is, that this does not happen.


I think we've clearly demonstrated that we cannot self-manage. Heck, no internet community can - that's why we have mods on this forum, and every other forum. I'd be inclined to change my tune a bit I see E1 taking responsibility, apologizing publically to the victim and perhaps even the public, and - as a sign of goodwill - returns all seized assets (and that's solely because apologies are cheap). But I suspect that won't happen. Would be the easy way out for CCP - and everyone else, but suspect pride will get in the way.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3927 - 2014-03-26 22:44:20 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tarojan wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Hi, my name is Joe.
I have a reputation for kicking small children in the face.
A week ago this boy of age 7 stood in front of me in the grocery store line so I kicked him in the face.
Kid should have known better than to stand in front of me, after all I do have a reputation.
To punish his stupidity I kicked him in the face and stomach several more times.



real life...game....real life...game....

You having troubles telling the difference between the two bud?

You seem to be having trouble telling where they separate.
If you torment someone for hours on a voice chat to the point where you're systematically attacking things like speech impediments, then it certainly has gone too far and crossed into the point of torment.


At which point you click on an X (or pull a plug out of the wall) and it's over.

This is one of the problems with modern society: no one expects grown folks to take care of themselves anymore.


Dear Jenn Awhine, as usual you miss the point, it is not the scamming which was the problem but the making fun of a person's speech impediment which was taking things too far.

Still, Jenn, you gotta sound tough all the time, or you would lose face with the hard-man trolls in the game.


Im not sounding tough, Im sounding adult (which you seem to not be familiar with as evidenced by the fact that you have to play the 6 year old game and misspell my screen name).

And how does making fun of a speech impediment (which is mean) in any way equal DEATH THREATS and RACISM (with a side of homophobia to boot)?

The 'victim' was a grown man who either should have just left or not been online in the 1st place.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3928 - 2014-03-26 22:45:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Drone 16 wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Upde wrote:

that is not even in the same ballpark. Posting a kill mail publicly v posting a recording of someone going through a humiliation aren't even in the same town sport.


Still trying to grasp how volunteering to sing songs is humiliation.

Posting kill mails is clearly meant to humiliate the victim, especially in a gank, and the perps don't even ask you if you're ok with them posting your loss.


Give me all of your assets, I will give you my TS address and you can do your best to sing to me, if you pass that "test" I might ask you to put some mayo on your face and take a pic, then based on my whim I will keep your stuff and expose your stupidity to your ruthless peers via a recording.

Ready? go...


Ok, how about ... no?

Now force me to do it, so you can persue your imaginary humiliation.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Abla Tive
#3929 - 2014-03-26 22:46:21 UTC
Hours of humiliation damages people (both mentally and physically).

It goes far beyond a short snarky response that might briefly hurt someones feelings.

Prolonged humiliation can lead to all sorts of ill effects on actual real people.

Which is where it transitions into abuse. (and which is why abuse is against the terms of service).

Barrack room lawyer responses like: it wasn't in game, it was on team speak, while they were also in game don't respond to the actual hurt caused.

So, the important question to me is: Is this sort of behaviour acceptable to the EVE community?

Can a scam artist fleece a mark and then make the mark dance for hours in futile efforts to get their stuff back socially acceptable behaviour in EVE?

If so, then EVE is too dark for me.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3930 - 2014-03-26 22:46:21 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
He's a sadistic & really creepy person.



He probably is. What i wonder is in what warped world is creepy and sadistic worse than Racist and willing to Threaten someone's life and family.
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#3931 - 2014-03-26 22:46:56 UTC
Navi Annages wrote:

Again Anonymity and privacy laws buddy. No laws broken then the Anonymity blanket is warm and soft. Good luck trying to get a foreign country to hand over any private data on players. Especially after the Snowden ordeal.

Now in a real sense maybe you have lost touch with truly how gutless, vulgar, and dark the world really is. Lucky for us the constitution allows people to be as conceited as they want. If you don't like it I urge you to take it up with your congressmen. Btw you'll just get some auto response email. Happens all the time. :D


I wouldn't be so smug, you would be surprised what motivated people can accomplish when pushed. I see it in my line of work all of the time, we shake our heads at the ingenuity of some of these people, all it takes is a pissed of 16 yr old with a grudge and your life will be spread all over the internet. That warm blanket you wear with such security is very thin.

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#3932 - 2014-03-26 22:47:49 UTC
Well i pointed out early in this thread what worst case senarios could be if allowed to continue, but seems there are many perverted minds out there that seems to think this is ok.
So lets take it a step further and address another elephant in the room, kids, you know those not legal yet that accually plays this game with us.

How many of those has been experimented on by this group of extortionists? wild guess?
Anyway you wanna swing this, we have them, and this is a game not a social experiment on them.

A group that accually spend their ingame time devicing plans and putting together experiments on how to get people to humiliate themself as much as possible, aint no good for a community and has gone a far way from beeing the average tradehub scammer.

Too bad my English aint good enough to say all the fancy words needed to explain what this group of people is, and further more the total abcense of morale and understanding from E1 and the ilk, is rather disturbing in this context.
But i guess someone with better understanding in the English word can fire that torch for me.

By the way, i must say this must be one of the better treads i`ve followed in a long time.



Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#3933 - 2014-03-26 22:48:21 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Upde wrote:

that is not even in the same ballpark. Posting a kill mail publicly v posting a recording of someone going through a humiliation aren't even in the same town sport.


Still trying to grasp how volunteering to sing songs is humiliation.

Posting kill mails is clearly meant to humiliate the victim, especially in a gank, and the perps don't even ask you if you're ok with them posting your loss.


oh dear someone doesn't know the difference between using in game and out of game scenarios. Kill mails are full yin game, they can be posted out of game as they are something that happened to an avatar in EVE, inside the universe, using the ruleset and gameplay as laid out in the EULA/ ToS. Out of game TS recordings are not in game. Thus i put it to you, if this recording was done using EVE voice what do you think CCP would have to say about it then. There would be 2 bans straight off the bat

Ban 1 for the contestant for all that smack talk he handed out
Ban 2 for E1 for instigating something that was not a roleplay of EVE or even done for an in game reason
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3934 - 2014-03-26 22:48:41 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:

Again Anonymity and privacy laws buddy. No laws broken then the Anonymity blanket is warm and soft. Good luck trying to get a foreign country to hand over any private data on players. Especially after the Snowden ordeal.

Now in a real sense maybe you have lost touch with truly how gutless, vulgar, and dark the world really is. Lucky for us the constitution allows people to be as conceited as they want. If you don't like it I urge you to take it up with your congressmen. Btw you'll just get some auto response email. Happens all the time. :D


I wouldn't be so smug, you would be surprised what motivated people can accomplish when pushed. I see it in my line of work all of the time, we shake our heads at the ingenuity of some of these people, all it takes is a pissed of 16 yr old with a grudge and your life will be spread all over the internet. That warm blanket you wear with such security is very thin.


Mmmmhmmmm. Sohkar's education is probably good enough to even know what an airplane looks like right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Rikanin
Mining Reloaded
The Commonwealth.
#3935 - 2014-03-26 22:49:45 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
You know sometimes I do a quick awox on a corp & they threaten to cut my throat while I'm asleep. Other times I do a quick 20 minute scam for all of their assets & isk & they want to box me when they realise what happened 4 days later. I tend to just let this go & think nothing of it because it's a heat of the moment thing & never produces any results. Here's the problem I have with Erotica1: He's a sadistic & really creepy person.

It's one thing to do a quick thing for profit & leave them wondering what the hell just happened, but it's quite another to do the kind of crap you do to people over the course of several hours.

Would you like to know more?


God knows I dont like goons, but for once, I agree with you buddy.

A line was crossed. And not by an inch, but by a mile.

Ban online predators and be done with it. Unpleasant taste from having to deal with them will fade in a day and we can all go back to shooting each other.


Uhh Yeah...when the goons start telling you that YOU'VE gone too far that says something pretty bad about what you did....don't ya think?
Druthlen
The Carlisle Group
#3936 - 2014-03-26 22:50:09 UTC

Again Anonymity and privacy laws buddy. No laws broken then the Anonymity blanket is warm and soft. Good luck trying to get a foreign country to hand over any private data on players. Especially after the Snowden ordeal.

Now in a real sense maybe you have lost touch with truly how gutless, vulgar, and dark the world really is. Lucky for us the constitution allows people to be as conceited as they want. If you don't like it I urge you to take it up with your congressmen. Btw you'll just get some auto response email. Happens all the time. :D [/quote]



I wonder if your this smug in real life. Or is it that blanket of anonymity that makes you so superior?
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3937 - 2014-03-26 22:50:28 UTC
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
Well i pointed out early in this thread what worst case senarios could be if allowed to continue, but seems there are many perverted minds out there that seems to think this is ok.
So lets take it a step further and address another elephant in the room, kids, you know those not legal yet that accually plays this game with us.

How many of those has been experimented on by this group of extortionists? wild guess?
Anyway you wanna swing this, we have them, and this is a game not a social experiment on them.

A group that accually spend their ingame time devicing plans and putting together experiments on how to get people to humiliate themself as much as possible, aint no good for a community and has gone a far way from beeing the average tradehub scammer.

Too bad my English aint good enough to say all the fancy words needed to explain what this group of people is, and further more the total abcense of morale and understanding from E1 and the ilk, is rather disturbing in this context.
But i guess someone with better understanding in the English word can fire that torch for me.

By the way, i must say this must be one of the better treads i`ve followed in a long time.





I will say the words for you.

Online predators who operate like a pedophile ring, luring victims to places where they can emotionally **** and abuse them. And they record this **** and post it on the internet.

BAN>THEM>ALL.
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#3938 - 2014-03-26 22:50:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
I am not perverted because I find it funny when stupid people driven by greed sing songs, read text or even spread mayo on their body or whatever.

I would be a pretty sick puppy if I'd condone racism, gay bashing or swearing and getting angry over internet anything.
Which camp are you in again?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#3939 - 2014-03-26 22:51:54 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Drone 16 wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Upde wrote:

that is not even in the same ballpark. Posting a kill mail publicly v posting a recording of someone going through a humiliation aren't even in the same town sport.


Still trying to grasp how volunteering to sing songs is humiliation.

Posting kill mails is clearly meant to humiliate the victim, especially in a gank, and the perps don't even ask you if you're ok with them posting your loss.


Give me all of your assets, I will give you my TS address and you can do your best to sing to me, if you pass that "test" I might ask you to put some mayo on your face and take a pic, then based on my whim I will keep your stuff and expose your stupidity to your ruthless peers via a recording.

Ready? go...


Ok, how about ... no?

Now force me to do it, so you can persue your imaginary humiliation.


I was helping you grasp a concept that you seem too slow to understand by yourself. Don't kill the messenger buddy, you asked for help.

Now you want me to force humiliation on you? You are some kind of sicko pervert on top of being slow?!?! Shocked

You have some issues, Sonny. Better get to a bonus room asap, bring mayo Roll

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries
#3940 - 2014-03-26 22:52:08 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:

But the time, work, and personal investment is certainly real. And that is what's being held above a victim's head in the bonus room.


This is also what's being held above a victim's head as part of a ransom.

Again I ask; Where does one draw the line separating "garden variety" reprehensible behaviour from "bannable" reprehensible behaviour?