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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#3821 - 2014-03-26 21:50:54 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:


Its possible to disagree with a play style without vilifying anyone, but torches and pitch forks is more the mob mentality approach. In the end, it doesn't do any good for anyone.


+1

But to some people, "i don't like this" equals "there should be a law against this". It's a very selfish point of view.


Quote:

Dear Erotica,

Long time no see o/. Since I first joined EVE, you've been in the corner of my eye. You put Erotica1 in a noob HS Aussie corp that took me in and tried to teach me a little about EVE (I believe I was 1-2 months along? tops?). For their trouble, you spied out their POS's, had beancounter (alt) Wardec them, and blew up my Cormorant. But, you also took me aside, explained that my fitting was bad and how to improve it, and kicked me ISK to help me along. This was an important lesson in the harshness I had heard about EVE, but also that - hey! maybe even the "baddies" are still respectful, well-meaning members of the EVE community, right? Right? Well sometimes yes, but...

Well, after that you still had me in private convo, so you bragged about your wallet. You flashed me a gif of the total. I asked how you managed to acquire so much. Then you start flashing me images of conversations you'd trolled out of ISK doubling schemes. Tons and tons of them. You seemed to drag these convo's out forever. I remember one I was reading, thinking at the time "Criminy... he's not preying on this guy's greed; he's getting off on this guy's loneliness and despair".

Since then, I've always kept your activities in the corner of my eye. Kind of the same way a person might keep an eye on the old neighbor that always seems to stare way too long out his bay window at the local children playing in the street. I heard about the mayo incident, the C&P threads you and your alts would troll until they were locked, the 'pod yourself to alpha clone' incident, the murmurs and rumors that you were behind scam websites like EVE-Bazaar.com, and countless other stories like these. I've seen the CODE nonsense you band about. Your CSM 'attempts'. I even saw your hissy fit when CCP restored that one guy's SP. I thought you quit the game at that point... guess that was too much to hope.

After that first encounter, you offered to take me in and teach me the ropes. I politely declined and went on my way. Why didn't I take you up on that offer? Because of those convo's you showed me. There's scamming... and then there's what you do. It's cruel. It's creepy.

Parting an idiot from his ISK? By all means - go nuts people. But that's not what you're doing. Sure, you do scam them, but as a means to an end. It's not about the scam. You want to humiliate them. Poke them. Toy with them. Make them cry.

That's not gameplay, and this behavior sure as hell has no place being 'acceptable' in my sandbox. If I'm not being clear enough, I'm saying that I agree you and your alt accounts need a swift and permanent ban.

If anyone doesn't agree with it, you are welcome to follow him out the airlock.

/ Coffee

Jenn said it in fewer words. Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3822 - 2014-03-26 21:51:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Coffee Rocks wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:


Its possible to disagree with a play style without vilifying anyone, but torches and pitch forks is more the mob mentality approach. In the end, it doesn't do any good for anyone.


+1

But to some people, "i don't like this" equals "there should be a law against this". It's a very selfish point of view.


Quote:

Dear Erotica,

Long time no see o/. Since I first joined EVE, you've been in the corner of my eye. You put Erotica1 in a noob HS Aussie corp that took me in and tried to teach me a little about EVE (I believe I was 1-2 months along? tops?). For their trouble, you spied out their POS's, had beancounter (alt) Wardec them, and blew up my Cormorant. But, you also took me aside, explained that my fitting was bad and how to improve it, and kicked me ISK to help me along. This was an important lesson in the harshness I had heard about EVE, but also that - hey! maybe even the "baddies" are still respectful, well-meaning members of the EVE community, right? Right? Well sometimes yes, but...

Well, after that you still had me in private convo, so you bragged about your wallet. You flashed me a gif of the total. I asked how you managed to acquire so much. Then you start flashing me images of conversations you'd trolled out of ISK doubling schemes. Tons and tons of them. You seemed to drag these convo's out forever. I remember one I was reading, thinking at the time "Criminy... he's not preying on this guy's greed; he's getting off on this guy's loneliness and despair".

Since then, I've always kept your activities in the corner of my eye. Kind of the same way a person might keep an eye on the old neighbor that always seems to stare way too long out his bay window at the local children playing in the street. I heard about the mayo incident, the C&P threads you and your alts would troll until they were locked, the 'pod yourself to alpha clone' incident, the murmurs and rumors that you were behind scam websites like EVE-Bazaar.com, and countless other stories like these. I've seen the CODE nonsense you band about. Your CSM 'attempts'. I even saw your hissy fit when CCP restored that one guy's SP. I thought you quit the game at that point... guess that was too much to hope.

After that first encounter, you offered to take me in and teach me the ropes. I politely declined and went on my way. Why didn't I take you up on that offer? Because of those convo's you showed me. There's scamming... and then there's what you do. It's cruel. It's creepy.

Parting an idiot from his ISK? By all means - go nuts people. But that's not what you're doing. Sure, you do scam them, but as a means to an end. It's not about the scam. You want to humiliate them. Poke them. Toy with them. Make them cry.

That's not gameplay, and this behavior sure as hell has no place being 'acceptable' in my sandbox. If I'm not being clear enough, I'm saying that I agree you and your alt accounts need a swift and permanent ban.

If anyone doesn't agree with it, you are welcome to follow him out the airlock.

/ Coffee


Exactly proving my point. Erotica1 is creey and thus should be banned (and anyone who doesn't like it should die in space). This way of thinking is wrong, borderline immoral.


Borderline immoral? Morality is whatever religious or moral text you choose to believe in. If it ain't illegal then the legit term here is "Get Bent"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3823 - 2014-03-26 21:51:05 UTC  |  Edited by: dexington
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Coffee Rocks wrote:
Dear Erotica,

(tl;dr snipped down)

That's not gameplay, and this behavior sure as hell has no place being 'acceptable' in my sandbox. If I'm not being clear enough, I'm saying that I agree you and your alt accounts need a swift and permanent ban.



Have you ever considered that being that this is a sandbox, you are free to organize yourself and other players to strike at him in the sandbox? Hell, you'd even create some amusing content that way.


I don't know what sandbox means anymore, so i have to ask... Are you advocating getting weapons and striking next time he goes out to build a sandcastle?

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
David Kir
Hotbirds
#3824 - 2014-03-26 21:51:30 UTC
Capt Starfox wrote:
David Kir wrote:


Yes.
But your real life analogy is not accurate.

E1 was not harmed here.
You can say whatever you want, but no harm came of this to Erotica 1.

The one and only harmed person, here, is the gullible man called Sokhar.
He was provoked and humiliated, recorded and made fun of.


You do realize that the only person involved in this event that could face criminal charges is Sokhar, right?


I don't care about criminal charges.
I care about a type of behaviour that I would only call disgusting.

They are both at fault, but Erotica 1's actions are what caused his reaction.

Furthermore, E1 was not harmed by all of this.
Sokhar was.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#3825 - 2014-03-26 21:51:55 UTC
Still see people referring to the assets as 'pixels' and 'fake items'. And that it's a no consequence people are tormented for them because it's all not real. Just simply trivializing the whole thing. "Just could have left" get repeated here.

Maybe some perspective can help the non-caring and cold. So going to spell it out super simple so everyone can understand.

It doesn't end at pixels. The pixels are a representation, a proxy of sort, of one's time, investment, and effort. When dangling assets to make someone perform for amusement, you're not holding a fake item that further yet has no value to start with or end with, you are holding their time spent, the effort invested. And quite possibly a little bit of emotional and/or sentimental tokens.

Why do you think this bonus room thing can even exist in the first place, and why someone would spend hours in it to attempt getting their stuff back? "simply leaving" is more difficult than you want to imagine it being. Leaving will be to turn your back on all that time and effort you've spent working for what you have.

Sure, it is just pixels in the most literal sense. And they are fake.
But the time, work, and personal investment is certainly real. And that is what's being held above a victim's head in the bonus room.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#3826 - 2014-03-26 21:51:56 UTC
Navi Annages wrote:
Capt Starfox wrote:
David Kir wrote:


Yes.
But your real life analogy is not accurate.

E1 was not harmed here.
You can say whatever you want, but no harm came of this to Erotica 1.

The one and only harmed person, here, is the gullible man called Sokhar.
He was provoked and humiliated, recorded and made fun of.


You do realize that the only person involved in this event that could face criminal charges is Sokhar, right?


Which is why I keep pointing out specifically that I hope all the "white knights" push this to the media. Destroy a family. Send Sohkar to prison. Make this a huge huge deal. You'll make eve gloriously famous and bear the responsibility of putting a rl person in prison. God wills it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez6wfJWVCeI Ripard Teg for CSM!!!


Prison? Talk about over-hyping. Are you even in law enforcement? Do you have any idea what would happen if this was brought to the police by ether side? They would be laughed out of the precinct and rightfully so. dramalama Roll

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#3827 - 2014-03-26 21:52:08 UTC
Navi Annages wrote:


Borderline immoral? Morality is whatever religious or moral text you choose to believe in. If it ain't illegal then the legit term here is "Get Bent"



Any only one party did anything here that could get him in some legal trouble, however.... that would rely on Erotica1 taking it to the police and pressing charges.

I am willing to bet he is above that.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3828 - 2014-03-26 21:52:10 UTC
Navi Annages wrote:
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Batelle wrote:


Anyone else find this implausible? Has luminous posted anything in this thread worth paying to keep quiet? Or anything worth the effort of sending a mail?


As we say on the internet - pics or it never happened.


Exactly.


http://postimg.org/image/4ws6f3hc9/
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3829 - 2014-03-26 21:52:39 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


No one said anything about Erotica1 being hurt, HOWEVER Erotica1 was subjected to death threats, which is WAY worse than losing some video game assets because you were greedy.

That is the point. Sohkar or whatever his name was had a right to be mad. He had no right to break the law and spew racist abuse at anyone. He went too far.

To proper thing to have done was tell erotica1 to go screw himself (which isn't a threat but rather a fun at home activity) and disconnect. That he did not makes his actions more reprehensible than anything Erotica1 did or could have done.


The death threats (of an angry man) were the reactions.

The response does not justify Erotica 1's behaviour.

There's a chronological order to respect, when debating faults.

The "proper reaction" is irrelevant, as this person was brought to what I would never call a "proper" state of mind.


Right would this angry man known as Sohkar have any affiliations with the recent Malaysian jet that went missing? Was he angry then? Does he get angry often?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3830 - 2014-03-26 21:53:40 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


No one said anything about Erotica1 being hurt, HOWEVER Erotica1 was subjected to death threats, which is WAY worse than losing some video game assets because you were greedy.

That is the point. Sohkar or whatever his name was had a right to be mad. He had no right to break the law and spew racist abuse at anyone. He went too far.

To proper thing to have done was tell erotica1 to go screw himself (which isn't a threat but rather a fun at home activity) and disconnect. That he did not makes his actions more reprehensible than anything Erotica1 did or could have done.


The death threats (of an angry man) were the reactions.

The response does not justify Erotica 1's behaviour.

There's a chronological order to respect, when debating faults.

The "proper reaction" is irrelevant, as this person was brought to what I would never call a "proper" state of mind.


You seem to have an issue with readong comprehension. Who said anyhting about justifying Erotica1's actions?

Again, there is NO justifcation, whatsoever for death threats and racial abuse. Erotica1 could have threatened his life and made racial slurs 1st and thats STILL not a justification for What that sohkar guy did.

Which is why I say, if anything happens to erotica1 , it is only right that worse sanctions be applied to the person who actually broke the law and rules of the game (racial abuse is prohibited in EVE online)
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3831 - 2014-03-26 21:53:51 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Batelle wrote:


Anyone else find this implausible? Has luminous posted anything in this thread worth paying to keep quiet? Or anything worth the effort of sending a mail?


As we say on the internet - pics or it never happened.


Exactly.


http://postimg.org/image/4ws6f3hc9/


I'd send myself mails too to try and push an argument. Your kung fu is weak :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#3832 - 2014-03-26 21:53:55 UTC
dexington wrote:
Anslo wrote:
This community has shown just how dichotomous it is.


Which is expected when left with two choices, where you lose no matter which you pick...

I think many don't like the idea of touching one of the core elements of eve, which is the right to scam people without ccp getting involved. We know what we have at the moment, if ccp decides to get involved and implement rules, it will affect more people then just E1 and the bonus room.

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Don't really know if that applies to this situation, but in the end ccp can't really protect anyone from people like E1, no matter what rules they make. There are still going to be fools who are going to get scammed out of everything they own, but maybe in a less publicly humiliating way.

If CCP decides to get involved everyone playing eve is going to lose a little of the freedom we currently have in eve, and i don't really think anyone wants that.



I don't think the beef here is with the scam. From the posts the common theme is everyone accepts that the scam was perfectly legit, in keeping with the EVE ruleset, CCP's ToS and the general expected gameplay for new eden. The public humiliation part is what is making people (insert emotion of choice here)........

CCP do have a duty to protect their end users in a similar fashion to other social networks and in this case it becomes very fuzzy as to whether this was done in keeping with the game or stepped out of new eden and onto planet earth. If you can say with 100% certainty that this was role play and the actions performed by both parties were levelled wholly and solely at the in game avatar then there is no problem. However no one can say that. If you say this was all above board then the next test to apply is if this went down using eve voice what would CCP's reaction be then.

I think we are well past the notion of CCP deciding to get involved or not, if they were not going to get involved we would already know that. The likelihood is that they are contemplating and formulating their plan for how they are getting involved but without killing any of the so called in game freedoms we all know and love today but at the same time doing enough to be seen as responsible developers.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3833 - 2014-03-26 21:54:05 UTC
Navi Annages wrote:


"Get Bent"


I passed you in Amarr an hour ago I think. or your alt, who used that phrase.

So, how is scamming going in Amarr? Lure any children with promises of isk today? or just adults?
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3834 - 2014-03-26 21:54:54 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:


Borderline immoral? Morality is whatever religious or moral text you choose to believe in. If it ain't illegal then the legit term here is "Get Bent"



Any only one party did anything here that could get him in some legal trouble, however.... that would rely on Erotica1 taking it to the police and pressing charges.

I am willing to bet he is above that.


So then like everyone is obviously pointing out. Nothing will come of this. Erotica1 is a freeman. Long live democracy, and scum, and donuts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3835 - 2014-03-26 21:55:18 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Batelle wrote:


Anyone else find this implausible? Has luminous posted anything in this thread worth paying to keep quiet? Or anything worth the effort of sending a mail?


As we say on the internet - pics or it never happened.


Exactly.


http://postimg.org/image/4ws6f3hc9/


You blanked out the name, then said "Ero totes did it!"...... that seems a little off, to me.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#3836 - 2014-03-26 21:55:23 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Capt Starfox wrote:
David Kir wrote:


Yes.
But your real life analogy is not accurate.

E1 was not harmed here.
You can say whatever you want, but no harm came of this to Erotica 1.

The one and only harmed person, here, is the gullible man called Sokhar.
He was provoked and humiliated, recorded and made fun of.


You do realize that the only person involved in this event that could face criminal charges is Sokhar, right?


I don't care about criminal charges.
I care about a type of behaviour that I would only call disgusting.

They are both at fault, but Erotica 1's actions are what caused his reaction.

Furthermore, E1 was not harmed by all of this.
Sokhar was.

I don't see any harm done to Sokhar at all, except to perhaps his pride.

I'd politely ask you to read this post out loud, and perhaps sing a song for me, but apparently that would allow you to justifiably react somewhat violently as it would alter your frame of mind.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3837 - 2014-03-26 21:56:37 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:


"Get Bent"


I passed you in Amarr an hour ago I think. or your alt, who used that phrase.

So, how is scamming going in Amarr? Lure any children with promises of isk today? or just adults?


Which one of these were you attempting because it wasn't any good.

http://i.imgur.com/aEhOy.jpg?1


E1 is a free man. Democracy has proven that nothing will come of this. Don't be hurt Luminous. I still like you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3838 - 2014-03-26 21:57:06 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
Still see people referring to the assets as 'pixels' and 'fake items'. And that it's a no consequence people are tormented for them because it's all not real. Just simply trivializing the whole thing. "Just could have left" get repeated here.

Maybe some perspective can help the non-caring and cold. So going to spell it out super simple so everyone can understand.

It doesn't end at pixels. The pixels are a representation, a proxy of sort, of one's time, investment, and effort. When dangling assets to make someone perform for amusement, you're not holding a fake item that further yet has no value to start with or end with, you are holding their time spent, the effort invested. And quite possibly a little bit of emotional and/or sentimental tokens.

Why do you think this bonus room thing can even exist in the first place, and why someone would spend hours in it to attempt getting their stuff back? "simply leaving" is more difficult than you want to imagine it being. Leaving will be to turn your back on all that time and effort you've spent working for what you have.

Sure, it is just pixels in the most literal sense. And they are fake.
But the time, work, and personal investment is certainly real. And that is what's being held above a victim's head in the bonus room.


And it's still nonsense. I don't care if you got your asset but digging ditches and 100 degree heat and using the money to buy plex. Those 'assets' are still imaginary and online 'available' to you as CCP still owns them.

And that is for the adult who chooses to play EVE or any game to understand. If a person can't understand this, they should not be playing online video games.
David Kir
Hotbirds
#3839 - 2014-03-26 21:57:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
David Kir wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


No one said anything about Erotica1 being hurt, HOWEVER Erotica1 was subjected to death threats, which is WAY worse than losing some video game assets because you were greedy.

That is the point. Sohkar or whatever his name was had a right to be mad. He had no right to break the law and spew racist abuse at anyone. He went too far.

To proper thing to have done was tell erotica1 to go screw himself (which isn't a threat but rather a fun at home activity) and disconnect. That he did not makes his actions more reprehensible than anything Erotica1 did or could have done.


The death threats (of an angry man) were the reactions.

The response does not justify Erotica 1's behaviour.

There's a chronological order to respect, when debating faults.

The "proper reaction" is irrelevant, as this person was brought to what I would never call a "proper" state of mind.


You seem to have an issue with readong comprehension. Who said anyhting about justifying Erotica1's actions?

Again, there is NO justifcation, whatsoever for death threats and racial abuse. Erotica1 could have threatened his life and made racial slurs 1st and thats STILL not a justification for What that sohkar guy did.

Which is why I say, if anything happens to erotica1 , it is only right that worse sanctions be applied to the person who actually broke the law and rules of the game (racial abuse is prohibited in EVE online)


But the racial abuse did not happen within EULA domain.
Neither did Erotica 1's actions.

You have an issue with reading comprehension: I have already stated that I do not care about what happens to the two of them: I am only arguying the resons of my positions on this matter.

I find Erotica 1's behaviour disgusting, and that's what I'm arguing.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3840 - 2014-03-26 21:57:48 UTC
I'd politely ask you to read this post out loud, and perhaps sing a song for me, but apparently that would allow you to justifiably react somewhat violently as it would alter your frame of mind.[/quote]

i loled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU