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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#3761 - 2014-03-26 21:25:39 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Almost 200 pages of people arguing whether psychologically tormenting someone is right or wrong???

What a joke society has become Roll

Nope, it's nearly 200 pages of people patiently trying to explain what psychological torment is, and it's difference from adolescent high school humor in the worst taste possible... and how adults can deal with that.

In this case, by clicking an X.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3762 - 2014-03-26 21:26:14 UTC
Look at all these people surprised at someone saying nasty things when provoked.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
David Kir
Hotbirds
#3763 - 2014-03-26 21:26:21 UTC
Myriad Blaze wrote:
David Kir wrote:
Being podded to newbie SP condition is an accepted gameplay mechanic.
All of us accept it whenever we undock.

Being provoked and humiliated, recorded and made fun of in public is not.

I just provided that as an example why CCP can't claim they didn't know about the bonus room. Nothing more.


Np, I just wanted to point that out, since lots of people around here are equating this episode to suicide ganking, scamming, ratter hunting and whatnot.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3764 - 2014-03-26 21:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
Peter Raptor wrote:
Almost 200 pages of people arguing whether psychologically tormenting someone is right or wrong???

What a joke society has become Roll


Why do you and yours keep torturing me with utterly stupid posts?
Which society are you referring to? The one where a witchunt against someone is OK or the one where death threats are ok? or the one where asking silly questions equals waterboarding and **** in some way?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Ais Hellia
Jita Honor Industries Union
#3765 - 2014-03-26 21:27:19 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Look at all these people surprised at someone saying nasty things when provoked.


Can you sing a song for me please?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#3766 - 2014-03-26 21:27:30 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Interesting thread...

On one side there is a gullible (and at least situationally naive) person who willingly gave away all his in-game stuff and accepted the terms of the bonus room. Which probably wasn't a good example of human intelligence. Roll

On the other side we have a clever person who took advantage of the not so clever guy. Which probably wasn't the epitome of kindness. Shocked

And then things were said, stuff happened and then more things were said.
And now we have a threadnought asking tons of question...

Was it illegal? Is Ero a criminal now? - Ugh... serious? I don't think so... No.
Was it against the EULA? Did it break the rules? - Erm... that's hard to say. It seems that it's not exactly covered in the rules.
Did it happen in the game? - Well... it's somehow an edgy case. Technically it was not in the game, but it started there.

Maybe we're just not asking the right questions...

Can CCP do something against it? - Yes, of course.
Could it harm the game? - If **** hits the fan? Yes, very much probably.

The answer to the last question is the main reason why I think CCP should do something about it.
That brings us to another, maybe the most important question: What should CCP do?

Ero didn't really make a secret out of his bonus room. Nor is the bonus room really new. Remember the thread in GD about the guy who was podded back to newbie SP status? CCP can not claim that they didn't know. And since they didn't do anything about it then, doing something drastic now would be unfair. Because with no warnings given Ero was in his rights to believe not being in the red with CCP.
It would have been easy for CCP to approach Ero and tell him discreetly to shut down the bonus room "or else". It's still possible to do that and simply lock this thread for the excessive trolling going on on both sides.

Btw, I did say last November, that I wouldn't suggest to draw that much attention to the bonus room. I guess I'm not always wrong. P


Being podded to newbie SP condition is an accepted gameplay mechanic.
All of us accept it whenever we undock.

Being provoked and humiliated, recorded and made fun of in public is not.

If you voluntarily submit yourself to it, it is.

And yes, people do it quite voluntarily all the time... as in this case.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3767 - 2014-03-26 21:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
David Kir wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:



No, you're the one defending a vicious and hateful racist who made death threats over video game assets, not us. There is never any excuse to do what he did, least of all some 'jerk' playing with them over teamspeak. Your stance here shows the same kind of immorality and irresponsibility as the so called 'victim'.


There's quite the difference between the actions and words of an angry man, and the purposeful provocation and humiliation inflicted by E1.

Anger brings out the worst of us.
You can expect an angry (or a drunk) man to act as a stupid and vile person.

What's disgusting is E1's lucidity, while doing all of this.

Don't try to blame the victim.


Anger is an excuse for death threats and racist? Man, those klan guys must be continually pissed.

While I hate to use a real life example, I'll do it here. It's like self defense. You can defend your self against someone else trying to hurt you, but there is a limit to that. A guy slaps you in the face makes you angry and justifies self defense, but thats no reason to kill the guy, chop him up , kidnap his family and force feed his remains to them (srry, was watcing Southpark).

More than once I've seen someone go too far in self defense (like for example chasing down a guy who snatched an iphone, getting the iphone back the procedding to stomp the theif to the point where he ends up with brain damage and multiple broken bones) and the result has been the appropriate one: the original attacker is usually convicted where as the person who went too far gets even more time.

That's what should happen here. If somehting happens to Erotica1 (and well, who knows, it might be justified), the racist guy throwing real life death threats should get even more.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3768 - 2014-03-26 21:27:44 UTC
I'm also especially curious about this because it seems to me the people defending Erotica 1 are many of the same people who more or less wanted The Mittani burned at the stake two years ago.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Brusanan
Free State Project
#3769 - 2014-03-26 21:27:55 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Look at all these people surprised at someone saying nasty things when provoked.

They are surprised because normal people do not go into fits of rage and spew expletives, racial slurs and death threats when asked to sing a song for video game money.
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#3770 - 2014-03-26 21:28:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrick Tallardar
Erotica 1 wrote:

So this DJ guy gets raging mad at me. Others can tell you who he is, most will get the reference. Anyway, I had the misfortune of having gotten on his radar and nothing I could say would calm this guy down. I was told to drop my CSM run and do a number of things otherwise they would expose some real life dirt they found on me, since I had released my NAME to address the people thinking the CSM thing was a troll. I had no idea people would stoop this low over internet spaceships. (oops again.)

If I get one more iota of harassment of this I will release the blackmailers eve-online name. Most people can guess.


You're accusing Darius JOHNSON, aka the man formerly known as CCP Sreegs, of blackmail.

Have fun with that in your fanstasy land.
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3771 - 2014-03-26 21:28:50 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:
David Kir wrote:


There's quite the difference between the actions and words of an angry man, and the purposeful provocation and humiliation inflicted by E1.

Anger brings out the worst of us.
You can expect an angry (or a drunk) man to act as a stupid and vile person.

What's disgusting is E1's lucidity, while doing all of this.

Don't try to blame the victim.


A "racist" victim.


Yes, a racist victim.

Again, rage brings out the worst of us; an angry person is often willing to go to whatever extent in order to harm his opponent.

That, however, does not justify E1's behaviour.


Hey man anyones behavior on the outside world is there own choosing. Who is anyone to judge? The constitution allows it. Go read whatever religious text consoles you on the matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3772 - 2014-03-26 21:29:09 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Look at all these people surprised at someone saying nasty things when provoked.


Provocations tend to reveal the real person. There is no provocation in EVE or on a TS channel about EVE that justifies death threats or racial abuse.
Legetus Shmoof Metallii
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#3773 - 2014-03-26 21:29:15 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Almost 200 pages of people arguing whether psychologically tormenting someone is right or wrong???

What a joke society has become Roll

well one side likes to defend the behavior of someone who likes to agitate and hurt other players feelings and wallet, makes fun of those who they dislike in a very arrogant way, and make it their goal in EVE to be jerks to those who mine. So I don't see why you are surprised that people from that mindset, being CODE and groups with the same or similar goals, would take E1s side

O tempora o mores!
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#3774 - 2014-03-26 21:29:51 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Hi, my name is Bob.
I recently wagered all of my life savings at the Tops in New Vegas in an attempt to double my wealth.
I had a 7 and an ace in my hand and the dealer was showing a 5. I doubled down, it was a sure thing.
But the **** drew to 21 and I didn't. I lost all my money, so I asked them to give it back.
Casino said no. I cried, then I yelled real loud. I may have hit a desk or two, then I may have said some 'stuff.
Should've bought a goddam luck implant instead.


A bit more accurate comparison was if the Casino asked for all your stuff for a more private little game. Then after getting all your money in into one pot they take you somewhere else. Somewhere outside the Casino walls, away from the security cameras and employee eyes (maybe the empty dirty alleyway) and had you perform tricks and songs for their amusement, rather than playing any sort of real game of chance or skill with a clear end-game or win scenario. All while holding your money to goad and pressure you on and on for laughs, while recording it to relive themselves again and again, and quite likely publicly share as well.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#3775 - 2014-03-26 21:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Raptor
Ranger 1 wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
Almost 200 pages of people arguing whether psychologically tormenting someone is right or wrong???

What a joke society has become Roll

Nope, it's nearly 200 pages of people patiently trying to explain what psychological torment is, and it's difference from adolescent high school humor in the worst taste possible... and how adults can deal with that.

In this case, by clicking an X.



One human being humiliating someone else for a whole 2 hours until breaking point, and we're not sure if its psychological torment????

Again I repeat ; What a joke !

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3776 - 2014-03-26 21:30:54 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm also especially curious about this because it seems to me the people defending Erotica 1 are many of the same people who more or less wanted The Mittani burned at the stake two years ago.


I defended Mittens. What he did was wrong but the real truth is that people who didn't like him used it as leverage to hurt him.

Same thing here. Much of the passion of the witch-hunt crowd is personal dislike of Erotica1.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3777 - 2014-03-26 21:30:58 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:

So this DJ guy gets raging mad at me. Others can tell you who he is, most will get the reference. Anyway, I had the misfortune of having gotten on his radar and nothing I could say would calm this guy down. I was told to drop my CSM run and do a number of things otherwise they would expose some real life dirt they found on me, since I had released my NAME to address the people thinking the CSM thing was a troll. I had no idea people would stoop this low over internet spaceships. (oops again.)

If I get one more iota of harassment of this I will release the blackmailers eve-online name. Most people can guess.


You're accusing Darius JOHNSON, aka the man formerly known as CCP Sreegs, of blackmail.

Have fun with that you shithead.

This goes back much further actually. He accused DJ of hacking into his personal email when his character beancounter Jaynara was still in GSF.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3778 - 2014-03-26 21:31:13 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm also especially curious about this because it seems to me the people defending Erotica 1 are many of the same people who more or less wanted The Mittani burned at the stake two years ago.


I didn't and don't want anyone burned wherever. The Mittani did do a mean/stupid thing while drunk and said faux-pass was in every way 100X worse than the silly prank Ero played and plays on dumb greedy people.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#3779 - 2014-03-26 21:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:
Bayonnefrog wrote:


I found the soundcloud for one of the mayonnaise bonus room incidents alluded to earlier in this thread and others.

Erotica 1 mayonnaise + picture audio

All I can say is creepy. Just creepy. Probably best to not have our game involved in stuff like this.



Didn't erotica in this very thread SWEAR the mayonnaise thing never happened? He/She LIED? How shocking. I smell the stink of desperation.

He claimed there were no "mayo" pics which was a claim based on people in the bonus round smearing themselves with mayonnaise. That was claimed way back in the Erotica1 for CSM thread.

I was fairly critical of that back then, so just listened to that recording to see what evidence there was that this might be true when Ero claimed earlier that there was no such thing.

In the 54 min 50 sec recording, the word mayonnaise comes up at the 46 min 17 second mark relating to putting mayonnaise in his mouth amd dribbling down his chin. Nothing deeper or more sinister then that.

So im struggling to see a lie in what Eoritca 1 wrote about the mayo pics, at least on the basis off that recording.

Thats part of the problem with this thread. Lots of untrue and half true statements being used, but that behaviour only being attributed to one person.

Its possible to disagree with a play style without vilifying anyone, but torches and pitch forks is more the mob mentality approach. In the end, it doesn't do any good for anyone.
Yang Amon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3780 - 2014-03-26 21:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Yang Amon
Xuixien wrote:
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
if Erotica 1 gets banned
****. this. game.

You're gonna tell me that an idiot who willfully stays that long singing songs and humiliating himself deserves any kind of sympathy, so now we're gonna protect idiots? oh how sad..

and holy **** seriously 180 pages??????


The issue isn't protecting idiots (enough of them buy into scams on the market on a daily basis to fund a small African nation off of RMT). The issue is harassment of an individual. Scams are not the issue, it's people who drag stuff like this out in order to get kicks to it, which in most cases if they did this in real life, many would agree that they are "not the best person around".

Scams are a business. Harassment and public shaming of a victim via recordings of him and such should be where we draw the line in this game, if for the simple fact it makes the rest of the playerbase look terrible and nothing else. How Erotica 1 can be defended for this I fail to see as it is a detestable action to publicly name, shame, and have your recordings of people being tormented put online for others to laugh at and take pleasure in.


If I invite you onto my TS3

And I make fun of you

It is not harassment if you choose to stay and participate


Bullies find personalities that are not WILLING to be bullied or opt for it voluntarily, but they find personalities that are subject to being bullied.

You are taking your comparison out of context hence it has no value. There was a person who committed suicide after getting scammed out of his money. Can I say that "if I ask you to send me $20k and you do it and commit suicide afterwards, is this my fault"? But instead, was this poor individual lured into the hoax by hope, maybe initial signs of good faith from scammer, was he desperate, was he depressed? Would you or me or 95% of people in eve-online forums fall for that hoax? It simply doesn´t matter. Line is crossed by moving from scamming in-game to personal bullying or harassment that can have really severe consequences.

Edit: If (luckily there wasn´t) there would have been any severe consequences of this taking place, would you go about around forums praising with the same attitude as you are now? If no, well whats the difference here? If yes, well I don´t have much to add