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Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3721 - 2014-03-26 21:13:03 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:
Abla Tive wrote:
EVE terms of service...
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player..

Sure seems like abuse to me.


Read the eula it specifically states "in the game".

Nice trial at a troll. Maybe you can graduate to the big leagues some day.

It's pretty cute, this.
How Ero 1's supporters keep vacillating about whether this was in-game or not in-game.
He was in-game when it suits his claim of no wrongdoing, and not in-game when it doesn't.


Ero's detractors keep vacillating between "the EULA" (it happened in game) and "the law" (it happened out of game).

It just so happens that we're more than happy to follow any premise to it's conclusion, because either way: Ero 1 didn't break any rules or policies.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3722 - 2014-03-26 21:14:14 UTC
Hi, my name is Bob.
I recently wagered all of my life savings at the Tops in New Vegas in an attempt to double my wealth.
I had a 7 and an ace in my hand and the dealer was showing a 5. I doubled down, it was a sure thing.
But the **** drew to 21 and I didn't. I lost all my money, so I asked them to give it back.
Casino said no. I cried, then I yelled real loud. I may have hit a desk or two, then I may have said some 'stuff.
Should've bought a goddam luck implant instead.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#3723 - 2014-03-26 21:15:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
For the love of Odin, stop posting you *&^%^$#E%#!!!!!11

I'm in the last page for two hours now, and before finishing the page another one pops up.

STOP TORTURING ME!! T_T I am out of RLM rifters...
Brusanan
Free State Project
#3724 - 2014-03-26 21:15:40 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Hi, my name is Bob.
I recently wagered all of my life savings at the Tops in New Vegas in an attempt to double my wealth.
I had a 7 and an ace in my hand and the dealer was showing a 5. I doubled down, it was a sure thing.
But the **** drew to 21 and I didn't. I lost all my money, so I asked them to give it back.
Casino said no. I cried, then I yelled real loud. I may have hit a desk or two, then I may have said some 'stuff.
Should've bought a goddam luck implant instead.

Did you try going to all kinds of media outlets and threatening the casino with all kinds of bad publicity if they didn't make an exception for you? Try that next.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3725 - 2014-03-26 21:15:56 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Ero's detractors keep vacillating between "the EULA" (it happened in game) and "the law" (it happened out of game).

It just so happens that we're more than happy to follow any premise to it's conclusion, because either way: Ero 1 didn't break any rules or policies.

So teamspeak is a magical fairy tale land where you can get away with saying literally anything.
That's wonderful news.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3726 - 2014-03-26 21:16:00 UTC
stop posting
From: XXXXXXXXX
Sent: 2014.03.26 21:13
To: LUMINOUS SPIRIT,

Dude, 20 bil isk for you if you quietly stop posting.


Interesting. E1 thinks I can be quietly bought off for a mere 20 bil? Lol?
Lev Arturis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3727 - 2014-03-26 21:16:03 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
I've said many times, just tell me what you guys want.



You keep on trolling....

What we want? Biomass your chars and stop your subscription. You would safe CCP time and effort.
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#3728 - 2014-03-26 21:16:17 UTC
Interesting thread...

On one side there is a gullible (and at least situationally naive) person who willingly gave away all his in-game stuff and accepted the terms of the bonus room. Which probably wasn't a good example of human intelligence. Roll

On the other side we have a clever person who took advantage of the not so clever guy. Which probably wasn't the epitome of kindness. Shocked

And then things were said, stuff happened and then more things were said.
And now we have a threadnought asking tons of question...

Was it illegal? Is Ero a criminal now? - Ugh... serious? I don't think so... No.
Was it against the EULA? Did it break the rules? - Erm... that's hard to say. It seems that it's not exactly covered in the rules.
Did it happen in the game? - Well... it's somehow an edgy case. Technically it was not in the game, but it started there.

Maybe we're just not asking the right questions...

Can CCP do something against it? - Yes, of course.
Could it harm the game? - If **** hits the fan? Yes, very much probably.

The answer to the last question is the main reason why I think CCP should do something about it.
That brings us to another, maybe the most important question: What should CCP do?

Ero didn't really make a secret out of his bonus room. Nor is the bonus room really new. Remember the thread in GD about the guy who was podded back to newbie SP status? CCP can not claim that they didn't know. And since they didn't do anything about it then, doing something drastic now would be unfair. Because with no warnings given Ero was in his rights to believe not being in the red with CCP.
It would have been easy for CCP to approach Ero and tell him discreetly to shut down the bonus room "or else". It's still possible to do that and simply lock this thread for the excessive trolling going on on both sides.

Btw, I did say last November, that I wouldn't suggest to draw that much attention to the bonus room. I guess I'm not always wrong. P
David Kir
Hotbirds
#3729 - 2014-03-26 21:16:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:



No, you're the one defending a vicious and hateful racist who made death threats over video game assets, not us. There is never any excuse to do what he did, least of all some 'jerk' playing with them over teamspeak. Your stance here shows the same kind of immorality and irresponsibility as the so called 'victim'.


There's quite the difference between the actions and words of an angry man, and the purposeful provocation and humiliation inflicted by E1.

Anger brings out the worst of us.
You can expect an angry (or a drunk) man to act as a stupid and vile person.

What's disgusting is E1's lucidity, while doing all of this.

Don't try to blame the victim.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3730 - 2014-03-26 21:16:58 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Ero's detractors keep vacillating between "the EULA" (it happened in game) and "the law" (it happened out of game).

It just so happens that we're more than happy to follow any premise to it's conclusion, because either way: Ero 1 didn't break any rules or policies.

So teamspeak is a magical fairy tale land where you can get away with saying literally anything.
That's wonderful news.


NO. It isn't.

You can ask silly questions but NOT MAKE DEATH THREATS.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3731 - 2014-03-26 21:17:23 UTC
One quick thing I just HAVE to add:

This may be the first time I've ever seen Brave and Goons absolutely agree on something like this.

Huh.

You never fly alone - Broadcast 4 Reps | Twitter: @thecoffeerocks | Steam: CoffeeRocks
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#3732 - 2014-03-26 21:17:26 UTC
Druthlen wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Warmonger Murderalt wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Warmonger Murderalt wrote:


That's the problem with this community though, it's so isolated that it seems to have lost touch with what's acceptable and what is not. It has stewed in its own toxic pool for so long that people seem to have accept such behavior as the norm.


Acceptable in what setting? I can suicide gank/pod you all day, but IRL if I destroyed property or hurt someone I'd be in jail pretty fast.

So really your statement... is nonsense without some context behind it.

The fact is: If it's not against the EULA/TOS or any laws... it's acceptable in EVE.

Sorry if you don't find it personally acceptable - but that's your failure, not EVE or EVE's community.


Let me make things simple on this point:
You can suicide gank/pod me all day if you like as that is an in game mechanic, and in real life if you hurt someone you'd be in jail, because one is a supported in game mechanic that has benefits and consequences and the other is in real life exactly as you said. While there are many things to be argued about the behavior involved, as stated, when he took it out of the game and into real life an obvious line was crossed where now we find the community in this mess.

And there are many things that are not allowed in EVE that are neither illegal in most countries nor specifically stated in the EULA/TOS as being forbidden but are covered by more general terms. But that's besides my point, which is that the behavior is being dragged into the public eye against the wishes of those who believe this is acceptable and that should it be dragged into the public eye it will hurt the image of EVE and CCP will be forced to react and everyone involved will end up much worse off than they would have had they responded correctly in the beginning.


He didn't take it "to real life". It was on TeamSpeak. Is TeamSpeak "real life"? Is the Internet "real life"? He used an out of game communication tool, but everything was still within the context of EVE Online.

Had it been on EVE Voice vs TeamSpeak your argument would be invalid. Your argument is based on something that's just incidental. This is why you're argument is weak and falls apart.

If anything, Ripard Teg should be punished for creating so much bad publicity for CCP out of an event that goes on in the game... pretty much on a weekly basis that has never drawn so much inter-media attention.


How ignorant this person is. People have killed themselves over facebook. Others have even been executed.


Ignoring the last past about people killing themselves as this is taking a bus to aplace this doesn't need to go to..........

Had it been on EVE voice we would have had a simple case of EULA breach. The reason this happens on TS outside of the EVE architecture is for the simple fact that it takes the activity into a grey zone which makes CCP's decision making process a red hot poker up their own arse.

On the one hand they can dismiss this and say nothing to do with us it was a group of people doing their own stuff, but on the other hand it is still directly attributable to the EVE universe and hence drags CCP into a massive mine field and potentially could affect them in a negative way if they are seen to be either too nonchalant about the whole affair or too draconian if they go mental with their ban stick.

CCP needs to carefully consider what their next step is. One thing that they certainly need to do a thorough review of their position and when they arrive at their decision publish it clearly.

To those saying this is an internal matter between E1, CCP, Ripard you are wrong this is a fully fledged community matter as the outcomes (even if the outcome is CCP do nothing) potentially affect the entire player community and the way they interact with each other in game or in the name of EVE.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3733 - 2014-03-26 21:17:40 UTC
What's wrong with death threats? It happened on TS3 man, you can say anything.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#3734 - 2014-03-26 21:17:56 UTC
Victor Andall wrote:
Equating internet griefers to rapists and paedophiles.

Wow.

175 pages in this is really what we're doing.


He's been doing it for at least the last five posts, while quite obviously not reading or responding to anything. Just another thoughtless troll.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3735 - 2014-03-26 21:17:57 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Ero's detractors keep vacillating between "the EULA" (it happened in game) and "the law" (it happened out of game).

It just so happens that we're more than happy to follow any premise to it's conclusion, because either way: Ero 1 didn't break any rules or policies.

So teamspeak is a magical fairy tale land where you can get away with saying literally anything.
That's wonderful news.


If that's true, then thank god, for Sohkar's sake!

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3736 - 2014-03-26 21:18:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Navi Annages
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
stop posting
From: XXXXXXXXX
Sent: 2014.03.26 21:13
To: LUMINOUS SPIRIT,

Dude, 20 bil isk for you if you quietly stop posting.


Interesting. E1 thinks I can be quietly bought off for a mere 20 bil? Lol?


This right here shows your Ripard teg. Wow you have sunk to new levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
David Kir
Hotbirds
#3737 - 2014-03-26 21:18:21 UTC
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Interesting thread...

On one side there is a gullible (and at least situationally naive) person who willingly gave away all his in-game stuff and accepted the terms of the bonus room. Which probably wasn't a good example of human intelligence. Roll

On the other side we have a clever person who took advantage of the not so clever guy. Which probably wasn't the epitome of kindness. Shocked

And then things were said, stuff happened and then more things were said.
And now we have a threadnought asking tons of question...

Was it illegal? Is Ero a criminal now? - Ugh... serious? I don't think so... No.
Was it against the EULA? Did it break the rules? - Erm... that's hard to say. It seems that it's not exactly covered in the rules.
Did it happen in the game? - Well... it's somehow an edgy case. Technically it was not in the game, but it started there.

Maybe we're just not asking the right questions...

Can CCP do something against it? - Yes, of course.
Could it harm the game? - If **** hits the fan? Yes, very much probably.

The answer to the last question is the main reason why I think CCP should do something about it.
That brings us to another, maybe the most important question: What should CCP do?

Ero didn't really make a secret out of his bonus room. Nor is the bonus room really new. Remember the thread in GD about the guy who was podded back to newbie SP status? CCP can not claim that they didn't know. And since they didn't do anything about it then, doing something drastic now would be unfair. Because with no warnings given Ero was in his rights to believe not being in the red with CCP.
It would have been easy for CCP to approach Ero and tell him discreetly to shut down the bonus room "or else". It's still possible to do that and simply lock this thread for the excessive trolling going on on both sides.

Btw, I did say last November, that I wouldn't suggest to draw that much attention to the bonus room. I guess I'm not always wrong. P


Being podded to newbie SP condition is an accepted gameplay mechanic.
All of us accept it whenever we undock.

Being provoked and humiliated, recorded and made fun of in public is not.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#3738 - 2014-03-26 21:18:47 UTC
A recording of a themepark carebear getting mad because of sandbox mmo-rpg game, this is nothing new, they take games too seriously.

The Tears Must Flow
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#3739 - 2014-03-26 21:18:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Imaginary video game assets. If he can't understand that those things meant nothing, then how is that someone else's problem?

Again, where is the expectations we as a society should have for people above the age of majority?


Sure, however, we wouldn't expect them to enjoy setting up a bonus room
either.
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3740 - 2014-03-26 21:19:47 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:



No, you're the one defending a vicious and hateful racist who made death threats over video game assets, not us. There is never any excuse to do what he did, least of all some 'jerk' playing with them over teamspeak. Your stance here shows the same kind of immorality and irresponsibility as the so called 'victim'.


There's quite the difference between the actions and words of an angry man, and the purposeful provocation and humiliation inflicted by E1.

Anger brings out the worst of us.
You can expect an angry (or a drunk) man to act as a stupid and vile person.

What's disgusting is E1's lucidity, while doing all of this.

Don't try to blame the victim.


A "racist" victim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU