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Abla Tive
#3681 - 2014-03-26 21:01:52 UTC
EVE terms of service...
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player..

Sure seems like abuse to me.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3682 - 2014-03-26 21:02:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The only purpose is to humiliate the victim for as long as possible. The assets are already taken so there's no other point to it.

Completely false. It's about ISK only.

There's no ISK benefit to them continuing with the mark after they've already taken everything he had.

Of course there is. The bonus round has rules and if they're not followed, it loses credibility and income.

Oh god.
Druthlen
The Carlisle Group
#3683 - 2014-03-26 21:02:24 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Warmonger Murderalt wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Warmonger Murderalt wrote:


That's the problem with this community though, it's so isolated that it seems to have lost touch with what's acceptable and what is not. It has stewed in its own toxic pool for so long that people seem to have accept such behavior as the norm.


Acceptable in what setting? I can suicide gank/pod you all day, but IRL if I destroyed property or hurt someone I'd be in jail pretty fast.

So really your statement... is nonsense without some context behind it.

The fact is: If it's not against the EULA/TOS or any laws... it's acceptable in EVE.

Sorry if you don't find it personally acceptable - but that's your failure, not EVE or EVE's community.


Let me make things simple on this point:
You can suicide gank/pod me all day if you like as that is an in game mechanic, and in real life if you hurt someone you'd be in jail, because one is a supported in game mechanic that has benefits and consequences and the other is in real life exactly as you said. While there are many things to be argued about the behavior involved, as stated, when he took it out of the game and into real life an obvious line was crossed where now we find the community in this mess.

And there are many things that are not allowed in EVE that are neither illegal in most countries nor specifically stated in the EULA/TOS as being forbidden but are covered by more general terms. But that's besides my point, which is that the behavior is being dragged into the public eye against the wishes of those who believe this is acceptable and that should it be dragged into the public eye it will hurt the image of EVE and CCP will be forced to react and everyone involved will end up much worse off than they would have had they responded correctly in the beginning.


He didn't take it "to real life". It was on TeamSpeak. Is TeamSpeak "real life"? Is the Internet "real life"? He used an out of game communication tool, but everything was still within the context of EVE Online.

Had it been on EVE Voice vs TeamSpeak your argument would be invalid. Your argument is based on something that's just incidental. This is why you're argument is weak and falls apart.

If anything, Ripard Teg should be punished for creating so much bad publicity for CCP out of an event that goes on in the game... pretty much on a weekly basis that has never drawn so much inter-media attention.


How ignorant this person is. People have killed themselves over facebook. Others have even been executed.
Warmonger Murderalt
Shady Business Inc.
#3684 - 2014-03-26 21:02:47 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Well, though I did not expect CCP to make any kind of decision or move in the 24 hours since this scandal has exploded, I would have expected them to at least acknowledge it, and I am not talking about falcon's platitudes of "we are monitoring the situation" he has posted in several threads he has shut down. There is nothing on tweetfleet from CCP even acknowledging there is an issue.

Let's see what tomorrow brings, but it is starting to appear that CCP is just going to hunker down and try to ride out the storm. Not that I am surprised if they choose that direction. CCP has made it clear through many many of their actions what they truly think of the largest portion of their subscription base.

The next couple days will be the proof if CCP is serious about increasing their subscription base with decent human beings by cleaning up the toxic cesspool that Eve has become, or if the status quo is what they want.

I disagree about the timing. I wouldn't expect an official statement from CCP until Monday or Tuesday, IMO. CCP doesn't seem to rush when considering these PR issues, and from what I've seen (remembered) they like to have a solid, well reasoned foundation to base their decision on.




Waiting it out is CCP's standard response and Monday or Tuesday is probably a conservative estimate. By then we'll most likely get a "we're thinking about things and will eventually decide something, maybe" type thread where they'll be probing to see if that's enough to get things to die down and go away. This thread would need to remain on the front page for about a week before CCP is likely to take an action of any substantial kind.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3685 - 2014-03-26 21:03:18 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The only purpose is to humiliate the victim for as long as possible. The assets are already taken so there's no other point to it.

Completely false. It's about ISK only.

There's no ISK benefit to them continuing with the mark after they've already taken everything he had.

Of course there is. The bonus round has rules and if they're not followed, it loses credibility and income.

There was never credibility.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#3686 - 2014-03-26 21:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:
Submitting to humiliation willingly is subject to the adult in question.

How "willing" is it when you're doing it to get your stuff back?

Completely.

For example, most people in this thread would not do it because, frankly, they value their dignity more than imaginary pixels.

Of course, few would have been stupid enough to get themselves in that position in the first place even accidentally... this individual worked hard to put himself in that position.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3687 - 2014-03-26 21:03:32 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
if Erotica 1 gets banned
****. this. game.

You're gonna tell me that an idiot who willfully stays that long singing songs and humiliating himself deserves any kind of sympathy, so now we're gonna protect idiots? oh how sad..

and holy **** seriously 180 pages??????


The issue isn't protecting idiots (enough of them buy into scams on the market on a daily basis to fund a small African nation off of RMT). The issue is harassment of an individual. Scams are not the issue, it's people who drag stuff like this out in order to get kicks to it, which in most cases if they did this in real life, many would agree that they are "not the best person around".

Scams are a business. Harassment and public shaming of a victim via recordings of him and such should be where we draw the line in this game, if for the simple fact it makes the rest of the playerbase look terrible and nothing else. How Erotica 1 can be defended for this I fail to see as it is a detestable action to publicly name, shame, and have your recordings of people being tormented put online for others to laugh at and take pleasure in.


If I invite you onto my TS3

And I make fun of you

It is not harassment if you choose to stay and participate

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3688 - 2014-03-26 21:03:34 UTC
Guys, its very simple.

People like E1 thrive on abuse and emotional **** of vulnerable victims.

They operate much like a pedophile ring - carefully select their victims in neutral settings, make sure the person is whom they are looking for, before luring them with well-crafted lines to an environment with no monitoring, whereupon abuse and emotional **** takes place.

These people are arguably on the same level as real-life rapists, pedophiles, pimps and drug-dealers.

They have no place in EVE Online, a game played by children as well as adults.

These people have to go.

Its that simple.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3689 - 2014-03-26 21:04:07 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The only purpose is to humiliate the victim for as long as possible. The assets are already taken so there's no other point to it.

Completely false. It's about ISK only.


It may be, but it involves provoking and humiliating another player, recording all of it and making it public.

Yeah, it's basically a game show of sorts.

Oh god.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3690 - 2014-03-26 21:04:08 UTC
Danalee wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The only purpose of the bonus room is to humiliate the victim for as long as possible. The assets are already taken so there's no other point to it.


Wrong, wrong and WRONG.

Asking someone to do silly things <> humiliating someone.

Being a racist bigot and having your wife fight your online spacebattles for you is humiliating yourself.
BIG difference.

D.

Bear

Thanks for reminding me how glad I am to be out of your shithole of an alliance.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3691 - 2014-03-26 21:04:14 UTC
Abla Tive wrote:
EVE terms of service...
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player..

Sure seems like abuse to me.


Indeed, the racial slurs, death threats and homophobic remarks were all abusive.
Sadly they were made on teamspeak so... CCP can't do anything about it X

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3692 - 2014-03-26 21:04:21 UTC
Abla Tive wrote:
EVE terms of service...
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player..

Sure seems like abuse to me.


Funny how the only one who did any of that is the alleged "victim", Sohkar.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#3693 - 2014-03-26 21:04:46 UTC
Abla Tive wrote:
EVE terms of service...
1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player..

Sure seems like abuse to me.

Would you please sing me a song, and read this post out loud?

There, consider yourself abused... and apparently you have no choice but to comply.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3694 - 2014-03-26 21:04:56 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
He wasn't "free to leave" at any time. His leaving would mean instant forfeiture of all of the assets he'd previously handed over. Of course at that point he was never getting them back, but him not realizing that doesn't suddenly justify what was done.

That in no way implies that he wasn't free to leave at any time if he decided things had gone too far.

He's an adult, quit assuming you need to do his thinking for him.


The above just can't be said enough. Some people just think that other people are so poorly and sorry that they need toi coddle them. There are some mentally ill adults for whom this may be true, but if they are that ill, they shouldn't have access to a computer, social media, multiplayer computer games or the like. That then becomes a failure of the caretaker.

Me personally, I'm not defending Erotica1 (no offense Erotica1, but sometimes that stuff is stupid). I'm defending the principle of responsibilty and adulthood. There is a reason every human society makes a distinction between grown folks and kids.
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3695 - 2014-03-26 21:05:09 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Danalee wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The only purpose of the bonus room is to humiliate the victim for as long as possible. The assets are already taken so there's no other point to it.


Wrong, wrong and WRONG.

Asking someone to do silly things <> humiliating someone.

Being a racist bigot and having your wife fight your online spacebattles for you is humiliating yourself.
BIG difference.

D.

Bear

Thanks for reminding me how glad I am to be out of your shithole of an alliance.


You win the argument. I concede Roll

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3696 - 2014-03-26 21:05:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Navi Annages wrote:
He knew he had been scammed the moment he entered the channel whatever happens from that moment on is is own falsified vet self fault.

Why does the situation being his fault make the actions of Erotica 1 and his cohorts acceptable?
Could have have avoided the scam? Of course he could.
Could he have left the room? Of course he could, but he'd never get his assets back.
Did he think he could get his assets back if he endured the bonus round? Of course he did.
But that's not the purpose of the bonus round. The only purpose is to humiliate the victim for as long as possible. The assets are already taken so there's no other point to it.


If you subject yourself into anything willingly you are now accountable for only your own actions. No one else forced anything. Too bad for Sohkar but at the end of the day he let his greed get in the way of his situational awareness. Meaning his tactical decision making process was garbage in the first place. It's his own fault. No one elses. Sohkar if anything has learned a valuable life lesson because he forgot to do a route recon before letting his personal ambitious greed get him into trouble.

But it's ok we all defend oddballs. In this case your defending a well known racist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3697 - 2014-03-26 21:05:25 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Guys, its very simple.

People like E1 thrive on abuse and emotional **** of vulnerable victims.

They operate much like a pedophile ring - carefully select their victims in neutral settings, make sure the person is whom they are looking for, before luring them with well-crafted lines to an environment with no monitoring, whereupon abuse and emotional **** takes place.

These people are arguably on the same level as real-life rapists, pedophiles, pimps and drug-dealers.

They have no place in EVE Online, a game played by children as well as adults.

These people have to go.

Its that simple.


You've been playing since 2004.

It'd be a shame to get banned simply because you insist on breaching the EULA over and over on the forums.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#3698 - 2014-03-26 21:05:41 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The only purpose is to humiliate the victim for as long as possible. The assets are already taken so there's no other point to it.

Completely false. It's about ISK only.

There's no ISK benefit to them continuing with the mark after they've already taken everything he had.



^ First undisputable fact i have seen in this thread. (today at least)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3699 - 2014-03-26 21:05:51 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I don't know why you are being willfully obtuse James. You nkow better.

I don't know why you're being willfully obtuse. You know better. You all know better.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Louise Beethoven
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3700 - 2014-03-26 21:06:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tuscor wrote:
Just ban Erotica1. The community does not need poisonous twats like that - and I for one am happy for the sandbox and 'emergent gameplay' to take second seat to cleaning the community of such filth.


People talk about gays in very similar terms to the ones you have used in your post.

Come to that, so have insane monogonadal austrian dictators.


I'm still trying to work out what gays have to do with... anything.

Or how a Hit-ler reference was in anyway relevant to this discussion... it's all such a stretch.

My own opinion is Malcanis lost the plot in Iceland and became an outrageously pretentious and unapologetic CCP cheer-leader, willing to whip out complete bullshit arguments when he feels CCP is even remotely threatened.