These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Jester Trek Latest Blog

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#3041 - 2014-03-26 16:36:16 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:



What makes a gambler keep gambling, what makes a alcoholic keep drinking, what makes a drug addict keep taking drugs

its the goodies at the end of it


Absolutely dead wrong.

As a recovering alcoholic (since 1997) I can attest that the behavior continues even after interest in the substance is completely lost. The mind literally tricks one into thinking one cannot survive without the substance, and it has nothing to do with the "high" anymore at all.

It's just "maintenance drinking" and using at that point. The only hope that even works is a Rehab. Period.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Powers Sa
#3042 - 2014-03-26 16:36:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Powers Sa
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Powers Sa wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


Burn Jita, Interdictions, etc, were not aimed at any particular individual.

I've noticed you in palas the past few weeks and let you be. If you're going to start posting again, I may have to fire the engines of woe back up.


I've been posting constantly for years. Where have you been ????????

I have no idea where or what Palas is. Troll and most indeed.

And an irrelevant post that strangely ties into the same problems folks are having with ingame behaviors here in this thread.

Well played. Except that psychological warfare doesn't really work at your level of lame.


I don't mind making you vocally quit again.

I found Krixtal Icefluxor for you.
From: Lozdod Pousel
Sent: 2014.02.21 22:03
I've found your scumsucker.
He is in the Palas system, Amdimmah constellation of the Khanid region.
With regards,
Lozdod Pousel

I found Krixtal Icefluxor for you.
From: Lozdod Pousel
Sent: 2014.02.25 03:31
I've found your scumsucker.
He is at Palas II - Royal Khanid Navy Assembly Plant station in the Palas system, Amdimmah constellation of Khanid region.
With regards,
Lozdod Pousel

I found Krixtal Icefluxor for you.
From: Lozdod Pousel
Sent: 2014.02.28 22:13
I've found your sleazebag.
He is at Palas II - Royal Khanid Navy Assembly Plant station in the Palas system, Amdimmah constellation of Khanid region.
With regards,
Lozdod Pousel

Not to mention your alts are also there. I run these almost daily, and have for the past 3-4 months. I have a generally good understanding of your gameplay habits and haunts.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
One Eyed Runner
GetYaTitsOut
#3043 - 2014-03-26 16:36:52 UTC
Cyberbullying


Legal definition

Cyberbullying is defined in legal glossaries as
actions that use information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior by an individual or group, that is intended to harm another or others.
use of communication technologies for the intention of harming another person
use of internet service and mobile technologies such as web pages and discussion groups as well as instant messaging or SMS text messaging with the intention of harming another person.

Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another. Cyberbullying has been defined by The National Crime Prevention Council: “When the Internet, cell phones or other devices are used to send or post text or images intended to hurt or embarrass another person."[5][6]

A cyberbully may be a person whom the target knows or an online stranger. A cyberbully may be anonymous and may solicit involvement of other people online who do not even know the target. This is known as a 'digital pile-on.

I live in Jita so f*ck off
Katkon Darnok
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3044 - 2014-03-26 16:37:06 UTC
Iso Anneto wrote:
olan2005 wrote:


If that recording is not going to far, then what is . From your perspective , where is the line between SCAM and outright bullying , humiliation of individuals .

How far should the scammer go after receiving all his victims assets , to reap personal enjoyment out of his victims stupidity

At what point does something go beyond a scam

WERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE


I don't draw a line until it becomes an illegal activity.
He should go as far as he likes. But as I said earlier, this was NOT pure stupidity, he snapped once early in the recording, which means that at least from that point on, all that kept him there was greed.

Anyway, I'm logging, it's 3 am here.


Really? An activity has to be legally prohibited for you to find it objectionable? You get your moral compass, your sense of what is right and wrong, from codified rules of law?

Your perspective reminds me a little bit of a conversation I had with a religious cab driver years ago. I asked: "What do you think would happen if someone delivered irrefutable and definitive proof that there is no God and no heaven?" (Obviously a massive "what if" question to someone religious.) His answer: murder, stealing, raping etc. would get out of hand as society at large is driven by moral values imposed upon us by religion - the civilized world would cease to be civilized. I happen to disagree, (and really hope he's wrong) but his reply was shocking. I hope you're not "restrained" based purely on what you know to be legal or illegal!!
Mario Putzo
#3045 - 2014-03-26 16:37:14 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Brusanan wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Except for it does. Multiple recordings of abuse sessions, multiple victims, pattern of behaviour....

Oh buddy, the hammer will come down on E1, and it will come down hard.

I liked the part where you are willing to lie to law enforcement and waste their time and money, and somehow you still think you have the moral high-ground.


Lie? No no no buddy.

Where a crime has been committed, or i think a crime has been committed, it is my duty to report it.

I call it the way a see it. Dangerous online predator luring helpless victims to emotionally **** them.


And after they hear Sohkar leave and return several times during the recorded "evidence" they will laugh at the whole thing then hopefully charge you with wasting their time.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3046 - 2014-03-26 16:37:42 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
In this case there was deliberate attempt to cause humiliation , through prolonged bullying and coercion of a individual by another player using out of game mechanisms. The intent to cause harm is key within that argument. As such CCP need to intervene due to the intent of the scammers to harm another players psychological well being through coercive humiliation
Wow. You must have cost your parents a fortune in bubble wrap growing up.



only quoting half the original post and a useless response . try posting an intelligent argument instead of cliche response
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3047 - 2014-03-26 16:39:16 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
----

Are you illilterate? The false implications you contrived are staggering. Its like you couldn't actually understand any of what was said, so you just MADE IT ALL UP instead..

Unbelievable. GTFO my EVE.



Mrs Sohkar, I can no longer simply ignore your insults towards my fellow Eve Players. I asked you repeatedly, and very nicely, last night to stop with the insults and be a productive and polite contributor to this thread. Last night was alluding to canine innuendo with Winchester, now you are questioning the reading abilities of Jonah, who is a long time contributor to this forum, and has proven his reading abilities time and time again.

I will ask you once again to please refrain from insults and contribute in a polite and orderly manner. Thank you.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Iq Cadaen
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3048 - 2014-03-26 16:39:20 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:

Oh yes, I fully agree that facebook stuff is really blurred, as the perpetrator and victim's (in most cases just the victims though) REAL NAME/IDENTITY etc. are involved. However, in a video game, where you can play any character as anonymously as you wish, where the things you fight/scam/mine/kill rats over are just imaginary pixels, I can't see how people still subject themselves to humiliation Question

You really don't get it?
I'll grant that the victim was, frankly, stupid. But that's beside the point. More importantly he was gullible and easily manipulated - just the kind of people E1 looks for.
People who've played this game for a while and intend to keep doing so for the foreseeable future assign value to these space pixels that oh-so-many on this thread claim they can just walk away from in the blink of an eye.
For all you know his whole world would've collapsed in his eyes if he lost it all and had to start over. And that's exactly what E1 and Co. are hoping for, nay, counting on. And that is exactly why he couldn't let go, couldn't leave.
They are predators who get their jollies from pushing people's buttons until they either 1) get sufficient entertainment value out of them or 2) push the right buttons to break them. This is a great example of social engineering at it's worst.

My personal stance is that E1 (and Co) should be permanently banned for repeated conduct completely outside the realm of common human decency. The in-game asset scamming part I'm completely fine with OTOH.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3049 - 2014-03-26 16:39:30 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Brusanan wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Except for it does. Multiple recordings of abuse sessions, multiple victims, pattern of behaviour....

Oh buddy, the hammer will come down on E1, and it will come down hard.

I liked the part where you are willing to lie to law enforcement and waste their time and money, and somehow you still think you have the moral high-ground.


Lie? No no no buddy.

Where a crime has been committed, or i think a crime has been committed, it is my duty to report it.

I call it the way a see it. Dangerous online predator luring helpless victims to emotionally **** them.


And after they hear Sohkar leave and return several times during the recorded "evidence" they will laugh at the whole thing then hopefully charge you with wasting their time.



Oh buddy, its not just that one recording that was sent to them....

I sent much, much more.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#3050 - 2014-03-26 16:40:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Powers Sa wrote:


I don't mind making you vocally quit again.



Typing is "vocally" ?? Since when.


And did your lame tactics work ? Obviously not.

But thanks for the illustration of behaviors that are being complained about loudly in this thread. Well done.

EVE is indeed full of unthinking creeps out for grade-school level lulz.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Mikey Aivo
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#3051 - 2014-03-26 16:41:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mikey Aivo
CCP has a duty just like twitter and others to protect its users.



ccp cant protect u from doing something stupid in teamspeak, facebook or twitter. Theres a point were your reasponsible for your own actions.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3052 - 2014-03-26 16:41:11 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Katkon Darnok wrote:
Batelle wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
I'm confused about the term 'cyber bullying'


Cyberbullying is a thing for sure, but this isn't it. For one, it is extremely difficult to walk away from most cyberbullying, as its typically carried out by real-life acquaintances, and thus it is easy to pursue the victim across various media platforms. Unlike this situation, which was a single event between complete strangers with more than adequate tools to end any and all contact from the other party.


The US government (and I) would disagree with your nuanced definition. Here's what is posted as a definition on stopbullying.gov (didn't even know that website existed until I googled the definition):

"Cyberbullying is bullying that takes place using electronic technology. Electronic technology includes devices and equipment such as cell phones, computers, and tablets as well as communication tools including social media sites, text messages, chat, and websites.

Examples of cyberbullying include mean text messages or emails, rumors sent by email or posted on social networking sites, and embarrassing pictures, videos, websites, or fake profiles."

No mention of "typically carried out by acquaintances" (stated) or "easy to walk away from" (implied).


Hmm, what is "bullying" then? Let's see....

stopbullying.gov wrote:

Bullying Definition:

Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior among school aged children that involves a real or perceived power imbalance.

Irrelevant that the US hasn't updated its definition of bullying. They have however in many of the states in the US passed or are intending to pass workplace bullying laws so obviously the definition only applying to "school age children" is incorrect.

In any case whatever you want to call it, its the actions not the word that is important.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3053 - 2014-03-26 16:41:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
----

Are you illilterate? The false implications you contrived are staggering. Its like you couldn't actually understand any of what was said, so you just MADE IT ALL UP instead..

Unbelievable. GTFO my EVE.
If you're going to accuse someone of being illiterate you should at least quote the illiteracy instead of just blanking it.

As for the accusation of being illiterate, no I'm not, in fact I'm an avid reader, and evidently I can write too.

Speaking of making stuff up, you should read every post you've made within this thread, and then spent some time contemplating your own hypocrisy.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#3054 - 2014-03-26 16:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Upde
lollerwaffle wrote:
Upde wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
Upde wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
I'm confused about the term 'cyber bullying'

To me, bullying is REAL LIFE harassment/abuse (either through physical or non-physical means), where the victim does not have the option of walking away.

What does that have to do with being harassed on the internet where all you have to do to 'walk away' is to hit the power button on your computer?

Especially seeing as how the supposed victim chose to continue to subject himself repeatedly to such behaviour, over digital pixels which have no bearing on real life? I could possibly understand it if this happened on social media like Facebook etc., where real identities mean the border between real and virtual worlds becomes slightly blurred. But over a video game, which has absolutely NO bearing on real life?

I don't like something, I turn the TV/Monitor/PC/console off and do something else. Easy.

Some people seem to go to great lengths to find something to be offended about. Weird.


not that simple mate. Its the same for people who get harassed on social media, they can chose to walk away any time they like, but people still get into hotwater. Look up cases of facebook trolling etc for reference. Its not really the same thing as what happened here as we can differentiate between a troll laying it on thick on facebook to someone whose friend just killed themselves and an EVE manipulator. In this case though lots of grey zones have been entered which make it really difficult for both CCP and outside observers to clearlyt differentiate between the game and IRL.

There are 2 camps on this case.

Camp 1 - the it was a game scam and the bonus room is levelled against the in game character
Camp 2 - it was a "cyber" assault on someone emotionally and was levelled against the person driving the character and not the in game character

It will be interesting to see the official CCP position on all of this.


Oh yes, I fully agree that facebook stuff is really blurred, as the perpetrator and victim's (in most cases just the victims though) REAL NAME/IDENTITY etc. are involved. However, in a video game, where you can play any character as anonymously as you wish, where the things you fight/scam/mine/kill rats over are just imaginary pixels, I can't see how people still subject themselves to humiliation Question


yes, the whole "in a video game" bit is where the bonus room falls down, its not in a video game is it ? If it was all over EVE chat, in game chat, in game messaging then yes thats in a game. however it it not. It is taken to out game comms for a very good reason which should be obvious to all of us and CCP.

OK, semantically it didn't happen within the game client. Contextually though, it is within the, admittedly rather loose, boundaries of the game world. What would have been your stance if this occurred through the in-game chat?

EDIT: In any case though, the victim had the option of walking away from it easily... All he had to do was disconnect from the third party voice server, which as far as I know does not require someone to disclose their personal details before being able to connect (or having to login via facebook etc.).


if this were done via in game chat and the "bonus room antics" were completely in character for the game avatars being respresented I would have nuked this threadnaught 150 pages ago and said move on nothing to see here. But the way this is executed means you can't do it this way in game because the EULA would tear you a new one. It is impossible for waht has transiupred here to be done so completely in context of a game.

Tear harvesting through suicide gank, corp scams, awox style, wardec, miner nuking etc is all action levelled directly against an in game character. Pulling someone to TS to humilaite them is not humiliating an in game character is it ??? its ripping a strip of a real living breathing human and that is where the line gets crossed.

you can't say this was an in game stunt levelled at an in game avatar, the evidence to hand proves that, you have got real humans ripping someone and a contestant incting racial hatred and threatening all kinds of batshit crazy stuff. If the contestand was shouting I am going to get my ass over to Gallente space, dock up in Rens and beat the crap out of scotty the station master thats in game.................... what E1 et al did was not game related in anyway shape or form on TS, what the contestant did equally in his response to the situation wasn't either.

The scam itself is perfectly ok, the post scam actions are what brings this debacle into question
Katkon Darnok
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3055 - 2014-03-26 16:42:14 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Katkon Darnok wrote:


The US government (and I) would disagree with your nuanced definition. Here's what is posted as a definition on stopbullying.gov (didn't even know that website existed until I googled the definition):


Yeah well the US govt tortures people, invades countries based on cooked up intel, and is always looking for more reasons to incarcerate people where the real bullying can begin. Come up with a better source.


How about how society at large would define cyberbullying? Google it, and you'll consistency of definition all over the place.

Here's Google's definition for example: the use of electronic communication to bully a person, typically by sending messages of an intimidating or threatening nature.

Pretty darned consistent, I'd say.
lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3056 - 2014-03-26 16:43:04 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Lie? No no no buddy.

Actually, yes, since you're claiming that this individual is 'possibly underaged' when he's evidently married

Quote:
Where a crime has been committed, or i think a crime has been committed, it is my duty to report it.

Agreed and that is your civic duty as a good citizen

Quote:
I call it the way a see it. Dangerous online predator luring helpless victims to emotionally **** them.

If that is the way you see it then you really need to either seek some help, or learn about perspective. How was the willing victim, in this scenario, 'helpless'? Unless they had their hands tied behind their back and were not physically able/allowed to turn off the computer of even mute the speakers, I don't see how there were 'helpless'.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#3057 - 2014-03-26 16:43:10 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:


Except for it does. Multiple recordings of abuse sessions, multiple victims, pattern of behaviour....

Oh buddy, the hammer will come down on E1, and it will come down hard.


I think the FBI might also look into your false claims of Pedophilia...

My favorite part of this thread Luminous, is the fact that you are, by your actions in this thread and making false reports to news and law enforcement organizations, Cyber Bullying Erotica 1....


Better watch out, Unsuccessful.

Logic, reason, and factual evidence doesn't work with the vast majority of this crowd.

Just the words of some dude who didn't get his way, and is strong-arming CCP into pursuing his will, via threats of " bad media coverage."

Who admitted to not perusing the recording, but then has the nerve to call people, in a recording he did not hear... torturers.

Both you and I know who the real people to blame are, and I am confident that CCP does as well.

And to think...we are the "bad people" coming from the hundreds of veiled threats in this thread. Roll

And again, CCP, if it pleases you, you are more than welcome to the vast collection of actual factual evidence, that quite frankly is at your disposal. After all, I have been an outspoken supporter of the sandbox you built for us, and any help I can provide is just return for the kindness of enjoying your world. You guys are great.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#3058 - 2014-03-26 16:43:12 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Irrelevant that the US hasn't updated its definition of bullying. They have however in many of the states in the US passed or are intending to pass workplace bullying laws so obviously the definition only applying to "school age children" is incorrect.

In any case whatever you want to call it, its the actions not the word that is important.


Just using the same source to refute a claim relying on that source. I don't agree with that particular definition either, but I still don't think this counts as cyberbullying.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3059 - 2014-03-26 16:43:39 UTC
One Eyed Runner wrote:
Cyberbullying


Legal definition

Cyberbullying is defined in legal glossaries as
actions that use information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior by an individual or group, that is intended to harm another or others.
use of communication technologies for the intention of harming another person
use of internet service and mobile technologies such as web pages and discussion groups as well as instant messaging or SMS text messaging with the intention of harming another person.

Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another. Cyberbullying has been defined by The National Crime Prevention Council: “When the Internet, cell phones or other devices are used to send or post text or images intended to hurt or embarrass another person."[5][6]

A cyberbully may be a person whom the target knows or an online stranger. A cyberbully may be anonymous and may solicit involvement of other people online who do not even know the target. This is known as a 'digital pile-on.

That's pretty much spot on for what Erotica and its 'friends' did.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lucretia DeWinter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3060 - 2014-03-26 16:44:09 UTC
Responses.

Mario Putzo wrote:


Its not different at all, but hey lets all pretend some more.

Do you think Mittani should still be playing this game? Where do you take the stick and draw a line in the sand?


Well okay. Pretend all you like. I have never had issue with in game scams and have stated such many times. Yes, Mittani should still be here. And he is. He got a temporary ban for crossing a line and saying stupid stuff. Which was justified IMO. No bad came from it, the other party was okay with it and Mittens got a time-out to think about what he'd done.

Mario Putzo wrote:
If Erotica is banned for this, what of the numerous cases before him of people recording situations where people got a rise out of someone else? What about all those "toxic" Soundclouds that have been leaked over the years?


I have not once called for Erotica1 to be banned. What I advocate is that it should be defined that this is unacceptable behaviour and we (the community) and they (CCP) do not want to be associated (through EVE) with it. Should this occur and subsequently anyone continues to do 'Bonus Rooms' where the only intent is to humiliate a person (not a character) for as long as possible, then yes, pass me the banstick.


Mario Putzo wrote:
Does the client also get banned for all the threats he made to Erotica 1? Or are we banning on arbitrary opinion of a guy who makes blog articles to get page views?


I did actually propose this. Though I believed it was worthy of a temp ban as a heat of the moment outburst where he said some silly things (like Mittens) and he should have a time-out to think about what has gone on. I'm willing to accept duress and an isolated incident here, but should there be other substantiated complaints or evidence of racism and threats from this person, pass me the banstick.

Mario Putzo wrote:
Have you actually even listened to the exchange?


Yes. In full. I have also listened to other Bonus Rooms prior to this (and have been a lurker of the Belligerent Undesirables community where much of this stuff is formulated and shared) I have long held the belief that this maybe goes to far, and this threadnought is the catalyst for me to provide my opinion and discussion.

Mario Putzo wrote:
I mean if you can't be banned for disclosing information about someone at Fan Fest, and telling people to troll the kid until he kills himself. What can you get banned for.


There was poor judgement and alcohol involved. Rationality suggests that a sufficiently stern warning should suffice. I'm sure if Mittens attended FanFest 2014 and pulled the same, he would be perm-banned in a heartbeat.[/quote]