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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#3001 - 2014-03-26 16:22:36 UTC
LordOfDespair wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
LordOfDespair wrote:


If the majority of the players and nonplayers think this behavior is unacceptable, your argument is next to worthless.


The majority of eve players have hardly even heard of the forums let along this latest Erotica thing. They just don't care because its just not all that important.


This 137 page thread and multiple news articles disagree.



There are currently ~2989 posts in this thread. Give or take the posts while writing this. Lets make it 3000. Even if that was a different person per post. That is only 10% of the people currently logged in to eve (30310). Since most of the posts are from a small number of people its not even close to that (prob ~1% or less). Since most people are not logged into eve at the same time its even far smaller (> .1%).

Most people who play eve simply don't read, or post on the forums and most probably have never heard of Erotica.

Why? Because we don't care. We are busy playing the game.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Big Lynx
#3002 - 2014-03-26 16:23:02 UTC
I smell a massive lack of empathy here. sad.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3003 - 2014-03-26 16:23:55 UTC
Usually they cant , put as erotica1 put this in public domain by publishing the broadcast , its within CCP capacity to investigate.

The issue of out of game mechanisms being used for scamming is one of the key issues in this incident
Mario Putzo
#3004 - 2014-03-26 16:24:10 UTC
FEED ME MORE HYPERBOLE.
Salvos Rhoska
#3005 - 2014-03-26 16:24:11 UTC
Jack Lennox wrote:
I love EVE but for christsake, 150 pages later

I don't give a **** about any of what you linked, nor is it relevant to this thread.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#3006 - 2014-03-26 16:24:16 UTC  |  Edited by: embrel
Mario Putzo wrote:
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
http://themittani.com/features/alod-go-back-wow

Should we also ban the people behind this?



Derailment detectedAttention


No just trying to find the line in the sand where we determine who and who should not be banned.


The potential of identifying the RL-personae of the "victim" for me. Publishing a soundcloud has the potential that somebody knows the victim IRL.
Also, as I remember the ALOD article everything there was in chat, so purely in-game. Nothing happened out-of-game as far as I remember it.

To me there seems to be quite a different level of pressure you can put on a person in TS compared to chat.

Or just scam for the assets/money and not to see how a poor idiot looses it.

EDIT: and I'm not actually pro banning. I think this is where a reasonable mature human being would draw the line for himself.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#3007 - 2014-03-26 16:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: tiberiusric
Jack Lennox wrote:
Congrats kids, you've created a 150 page thread on something that is basically a non-issue when things like this are happening in real life, not in our little game world.

"Guardian" newspaper threatened to be closed http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/guardian-threatened-with-closure-over-snowden-leaks-conference-told-1.1738203


Russian military holds exercises in breakaway Moldova region http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/25/us-russia-military-exercises-idUSBREA2O1KB20140325


I love EVE but for christsake, 150 pages later



but its not a non issue to most of us... thats why people commit suicide because they get cyber bullied or get constantly trolled and because people like you ignore it and pretend its not a problem

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#3008 - 2014-03-26 16:24:52 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

It might take 6-8 months for them, but they will come.
And with words like ' online predators ' ' luring ' 'vulnerable victims ' 'possibly underage ' 'recorded ' 'tortured and abused ' ' published on the internet '
THEY WILL COME.

Oh buddy, buddy. Its not MY credibility. Thats not how it works my friend.

They follow up EVERY tip. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Its their job. They have a list, they go through every single line.

They will come. Americans dont mess around with pedophelia, online luring, **** and abuse of victims. E1 is smack down in the middle of this. And I would not associate with him. Not when FBI starts digging.


Right, and after about 5 minutes of "digging" they'll realize the tip was completely bogus and involved none of the things you listed. Roll

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#3009 - 2014-03-26 16:24:56 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
Upde wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
I'm confused about the term 'cyber bullying'

To me, bullying is REAL LIFE harassment/abuse (either through physical or non-physical means), where the victim does not have the option of walking away.

What does that have to do with being harassed on the internet where all you have to do to 'walk away' is to hit the power button on your computer?

Especially seeing as how the supposed victim chose to continue to subject himself repeatedly to such behaviour, over digital pixels which have no bearing on real life? I could possibly understand it if this happened on social media like Facebook etc., where real identities mean the border between real and virtual worlds becomes slightly blurred. But over a video game, which has absolutely NO bearing on real life?

I don't like something, I turn the TV/Monitor/PC/console off and do something else. Easy.

Some people seem to go to great lengths to find something to be offended about. Weird.


not that simple mate. Its the same for people who get harassed on social media, they can chose to walk away any time they like, but people still get into hotwater. Look up cases of facebook trolling etc for reference. Its not really the same thing as what happened here as we can differentiate between a troll laying it on thick on facebook to someone whose friend just killed themselves and an EVE manipulator. In this case though lots of grey zones have been entered which make it really difficult for both CCP and outside observers to clearlyt differentiate between the game and IRL.

There are 2 camps on this case.

Camp 1 - the it was a game scam and the bonus room is levelled against the in game character
Camp 2 - it was a "cyber" assault on someone emotionally and was levelled against the person driving the character and not the in game character

It will be interesting to see the official CCP position on all of this.


Oh yes, I fully agree that facebook stuff is really blurred, as the perpetrator and victim's (in most cases just the victims though) REAL NAME/IDENTITY etc. are involved. However, in a video game, where you can play any character as anonymously as you wish, where the things you fight/scam/mine/kill rats over are just imaginary pixels, I can't see how people still subject themselves to humiliation Question


yes, the whole "in a video game" bit is where the bonus room falls down, its not in a video game is it ? If it was all over EVE chat, in game chat, in game messaging then yes thats in a game. however it it not. It is taken to out game comms for a very good reason which should be obvious to all of us and CCP.
Mario Putzo
#3010 - 2014-03-26 16:25:40 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
Usually they cant , put as erotica1 put this in public domain by publishing the broadcast , its within CCP capacity to investigate.

The issue of out of game mechanisms being used for scamming is one of the key issues in this incident


Then the same should apply to out of game communications for ALL practices in EVE.

CCP can't monitor Jabber, TS3, Mumble or any of it. So they should all be bannable offenses right?
Katkon Darnok
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3011 - 2014-03-26 16:25:42 UTC
Batelle wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
I'm confused about the term 'cyber bullying'


Cyberbullying is a thing for sure, but this isn't it. For one, it is extremely difficult to walk away from most cyberbullying, as its typically carried out by real-life acquaintances, and thus it is easy to pursue the victim across various media platforms. Unlike this situation, which was a single event between complete strangers with more than adequate tools to end any and all contact from the other party.


The US government (and I) would disagree with your nuanced definition. Here's what is posted as a definition on stopbullying.gov (didn't even know that website existed until I googled the definition):

"Cyberbullying is bullying that takes place using electronic technology. Electronic technology includes devices and equipment such as cell phones, computers, and tablets as well as communication tools including social media sites, text messages, chat, and websites.

Examples of cyberbullying include mean text messages or emails, rumors sent by email or posted on social networking sites, and embarrassing pictures, videos, websites, or fake profiles."

No mention of "typically carried out by acquaintances" (stated) or "easy to walk away from" (implied).
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3012 - 2014-03-26 16:25:48 UTC
Well, apparently Sohkar left the Bonus Room several times, only to return. Im having a hard time believing that he was being held against his will.... apparently he was VERY familiar with the little red X in the corner, and apparently excercised his right to leave at any time a few times....

Now I guess the next question would be, What brought him back? You cant forcefully drag someone back onto teamspeak.... so I guess we are back to Personal Responsibilty again...or Greed...

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3013 - 2014-03-26 16:26:06 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Quote:
snip


Oh buddy, buddy. Its not MY credibility. Thats not how it works my friend.

They follow up EVERY tip. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Its their job. They have a list, they go through every single line.

They will come. Americans dont mess around with pedophelia, online luring, **** and abuse of victims. E1 is smack down in the middle of this. And I would not associate with him. Not when FBI starts digging.

This is what I'm talking about. How sick would you have to be to equate paedophilia and the plethora of crimes you listed with what happened between 2 adults in the context of a video game, where one adult willingly subjected himself to verbal harassment/abuse when all he had to do to 'walk away' would be to hit the power button on his PC?


That is a very sick and twisted mind if you honestly feel that these things are on the same level.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3014 - 2014-03-26 16:27:05 UTC
Batelle wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

It might take 6-8 months for them, but they will come.
And with words like ' online predators ' ' luring ' 'vulnerable victims ' 'possibly underage ' 'recorded ' 'tortured and abused ' ' published on the internet '
THEY WILL COME.

Oh buddy, buddy. Its not MY credibility. Thats not how it works my friend.

They follow up EVERY tip. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Its their job. They have a list, they go through every single line.

They will come. Americans dont mess around with pedophelia, online luring, **** and abuse of victims. E1 is smack down in the middle of this. And I would not associate with him. Not when FBI starts digging.


Right, and after about 5 minutes of "digging" they'll realize the tip was completely bogus and involved none of the things you listed. Roll


Except for it does. Multiple recordings of abuse sessions, multiple victims, pattern of behaviour....

Oh buddy, the hammer will come down on E1, and it will come down hard.
Brusanan
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#3015 - 2014-03-26 16:27:22 UTC
This thread is just 150 pages of people making the same arguments over and over again.

Sorry anti-Erotica guys, you lost the debate before it started. GG. QQ.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#3016 - 2014-03-26 16:27:46 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
There's no consent with coercion. Obviously after having his stuff taken and fearing if he didn't do what they said and agreed to what they asked they would not return it there was coercion. No consent at all.

Really irrelevant though unless he sues them.

I've seen this stupid line repeated ad infinitum throughout this thread. Sohkar's assets were not taken. They were not seized, filched, embezzled, robbed, or purloined - He willingly gave them up. Once he turns the assets over to E1, they cease to belong to Sohkar. They become Erotica 1's assets. There is no coercion involved, because it is no longer Sohkar's stuff, it is simply a matter of what Erotica 1 chooses to do with what is now his.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
No consent at all.

Sohkar absolutely consented. There is no way for one player to forcibly withdraw from the personal wallet of someone else or set up contracts on their behalf. Are you sure you know what 'consent' means?

Taken from Merriam-Webster Online -

Consent: to agree to do or allow something : to give permission for something to happen or be done

How is that not exactly what happened?
Mario Putzo
#3017 - 2014-03-26 16:28:01 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Well, apparently Sohkar left the Bonus Room several times, only to return. Im having a hard time believing that he was being held against his will.... apparently he was VERY familiar with the little red X in the corner, and apparently excercised his right to leave at any time a few times....

Now I guess the next question would be, What brought him back? You cant forcefully drag someone back onto teamspeak.... so I guess we are back to Personal Responsibilty again...or Greed...


Rational comments don't work during the hours of hyperbole and parroting you should know this.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3018 - 2014-03-26 16:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

Oh buddy, buddy. Its not MY credibility. Thats not how it works my friend.

They follow up EVERY tip. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Its their job. They have a list, they go through every single line.

They will come. Americans dont mess around with pedophelia, online luring, **** and abuse of victims. E1 is smack down in the middle of this. And I would not associate with him. Not when FBI starts digging.
Any credibility you had just disappeared in a puff of smoke.

If you think that the loss of some internet spaceship pixels is in any way similar to paedophilia, forced sexual intercourse etc you have a serious problem. You disgust me, as far as I'm concerned you're a blight upon these forums and humanity in general.

Please go to the nearest healthcare facility that deals with the victims of such acts and tell them that losing internet spaceships and internet spaceships money is the same as what they've been through.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#3019 - 2014-03-26 16:28:26 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Well, apparently Sohkar left the Bonus Room several times, only to return. Im having a hard time believing that he was being held against his will.... apparently he was VERY familiar with the little red X in the corner, and apparently excercised his right to leave at any time a few times....

Now I guess the next question would be, What brought him back? You cant forcefully drag someone back onto teamspeak.... so I guess we are back to Personal Responsibilty again...or Greed...



What makes a gambler keep gambling, what makes a alcoholic keep drinking, what makes a drug addict keep taking drugs

its the goodies at the end of it

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#3020 - 2014-03-26 16:28:59 UTC
Katkon Darnok wrote:
The US government (and I) would disagree with your nuanced definition.
You are a bad person and should feel bad.

There, I am now a cyberbully am and literally as bad as someone who has driven someone to suicide.

Removing nuance is fun.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment