These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Jester Trek Latest Blog

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Iso Anneto
Doomheim
#2941 - 2014-03-26 15:51:26 UTC
Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
He consents to both.

Please explain to me EXACTLY how you come to this conclusion.

Be as specific as possible.
He says he consents to both.

There's really no wrangling your way out this, it's plainly stated on the recording, so I'm done responding to this asinine line of argument.

But as a sorted of deleted-scene-DVD-extra, here's what I would have said if, by some magic, you could demonstrate that the client did not say what he said - who cares? CCP are not the police, and neither are we, and a grey-area TS recording is nothing to do with either.


He consents to recording while being recorded... That makes lots of sense?


You sound like you're supporting E1 there, since that statement says that he consented out of the recording because if he didn't, he would've known they were recording and told them not to, but we heard nothing like that.
Eric Stratton
Sanxing Yi
#2942 - 2014-03-26 15:51:51 UTC
You know what? Everything is fine. Everything is gonna be OK. I understand you are angry... but it will pass. They are boys on the playground, and you are a grown man. Don't let them get to you. You know you're better than that! Anyway, when you are ready I made your favorite dish for dinner tonight!

*Hugs*
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2943 - 2014-03-26 15:52:05 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
To those of you who support the Bonus Room as a legitimate Eve activity, what is the line an Eve player would have to cross to get you to admit he did something wrong?
Actually taking their stuff or somehow forcing them to do embarassing things rather than asking politely for both would be a start.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#2944 - 2014-03-26 15:54:02 UTC
If you want an interesting read, read the Icelandic criminal code with regard to the internet, and especially internet bullying. U.S. statutes pale by comparison. One can try to argue that "this is just a video game" all one wants. Saying it to a "victim" isn't quite the same as saying it to law enforcement. To state, or restate, the obvious, it's ALSO the internet.

Regardless of how libertine someone might feel, personally or even toward others, no one can conspire with oneself, or others to agree that laws and statutes do not apply to them. Neither can anyone arbitrarily declare jurisdictions. You can't invite someone inside your house, have them declare "it's okay if you murder me," record it then use that recording as a basis to a claim that a murder was not committed - for example.

I'd venture a prediction that should this recording (https://soundcloud.com/kalorned/erotica1bonusroom_sohkar) be heard by legislators dealing with internet law, you can be sure some things that may NOT be illegal soon would be. It is a fact, I can assure all reading along, that the sort of behavior recorded here, if done person-to-person, is illegal in all 50 states. That it is done "across state lines", and quite possibly "across national borders" ensures a federal jurisdiction.

Law enforcement, oddly enough, likes to decide whether any laws were broken. It's not a thing open for discussion. In this vein, discussion of this on a forum is immaterial unless additional material evidence is provided. Opinions (in the end) are indeed like a-holes. Everybody has one.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#2945 - 2014-03-26 15:55:10 UTC
One thing strikes me as odd.

There are forum rules prohibiting personal attacks and ranting. Since this entire thread is based on a personal attack and almost every post in it contains more personal attacks and ranting, shouldn't it be locked or something? ISD Ezwal must be on vacation.

Never mind, he's probably just on page 50 or something and still trying to catch up.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2946 - 2014-03-26 15:55:32 UTC
So I just went to the library.

A woman shows up, sits next to me, passes out and is snoring really loud.
This is obviously inappropriate behavior, she obviously singled me out, she's obviously done this to other people before, and it's making me crazy.

Should I walk away, and tell one of the librarians, or is it acceptable to go into a ugly racist rant and threaten to gut her?

What does Rippard Teg and his minions think?

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2947 - 2014-03-26 15:55:37 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
Iso Anneto wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
Iso Anneto wrote:
Seriously people?
This guy could at ANY time leave the channel. He even knew what was going on (he said he did in to anyway), he could have left, he stayed because he wanted the money, it's his fault he was "tortured", simply because he was greedy. If he had cut his losses or not been greedy, he could've avoided all of this. Pure greed is the cause. And E1 being insane, but mostly greed.



Thats like saying its the coppers fault for being shot , because he choose to be a police officer. The getting scammed is the victim fault. The Bonus room shenanigans is the fault of the scammers taking it too far .


Um, no.
It's similar but completely different, the police(wo)man is obliged to do it, it is his/her job and there are things that matter in the line, the guy lost what? Less than $40 worth of in game assets, as I said earlier, he could have left if he wanted to, he stayed because of pure greed.


OK theoretically i scam you . Take all you isk and assets . Then give you a chance to get them back using the bonus room method . NOW say you have a lot of time and effort put into the game. you are going to comply due to the coercion of holding you entire eve career assets to ransom if you do not . If erotica1 action were legal why did he not use the in-game chat for this . ILL tell why due to the fact that CCP would ban him for going to far. The coercion element of the bonus room aspect of the scam is what negates any consent given to the scammer by the victim . Still the victim should have been wiser and quit after the initial scam. The scammer should have used moderation and quit while he was ahead , instead of being a narcissistic prick


To support your argument with "he wouldn't walk away cause they has his space stuffs." means you hold too much value on space stuff.

Just so you are aware, more space stuff and bucks is passed around during the bonus round.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Destitute Tehol Beddict
Binary Trading
#2948 - 2014-03-26 15:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Destitute Tehol Beddict
Iso Anneto wrote:
Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
He consents to both.

Please explain to me EXACTLY how you come to this conclusion.

Be as specific as possible.
He says he consents to both.

There's really no wrangling your way out this, it's plainly stated on the recording, so I'm done responding to this asinine line of argument.

But as a sorted of deleted-scene-DVD-extra, here's what I would have said if, by some magic, you could demonstrate that the client did not say what he said - who cares? CCP are not the police, and neither are we, and a grey-area TS recording is nothing to do with either.


He consents to recording while being recorded... That makes lots of sense?


You sound like you're supporting E1 there, since that statement says that he consented out of the recording because if he didn't, he would've known they were recording and told them not to, but we heard nothing like that.


I don't agree with what E1 did. I have not decided my opinion on what should be done on the matter yet. I am waiting for a CCP response.

EDIT: I would also appreciate it if words aren't put in my mouth. I say what I say there's nothing more behind what I say.

Loot Buying service: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4529397#post4529397
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#2949 - 2014-03-26 15:55:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Iso Anneto wrote:
Seriously people?
This guy could at ANY time leave the channel. He even knew what was going on (he said he did in TS anyway), he could have left, he stayed because he wanted the money, it's his fault he was "tortured", simply because he was greedy. If he had cut his losses or not been greedy, he could've avoided all of this. Pure greed is the cause. And E1 Beijing insane, but mostly greed.

Exactly.

While I don't aggree with the level of what Erotica1 did, I will fight to the death for his right to do it. Sandbox remember? (also, see: freedom of speech parallel)

What's really pathetic here is touchy feely pansies like Ripard Teg are using this event as a soapbox to try and validate his carebear-loving ways, and assuage his personal moral outrage -- by going to the extreme of calling for nerfs or changes to the TOS. Know what Ripard, if you are so upset why not put money where mouth is and UNSUB to go play WoW with the other pansies?

No no no... Elitist's like Ripard don't counter sandbox events like this by directly helping the 'victim' with ISK donations, or calling for donations to the victim as remedy and calling it a day...NO, elitist Tzars from on high always insist on changing *your game* based on *their feelings*.

I weep for the fact HTFU in EvE is dying a death of 1,000 cuts unchallenged, because activist pansies like Ripard and Trebor are on the CSM.

tldr;
Don't tell Erotica1 or anyone how to play their game. EvE is a sandbox, or its not. CCP's (non) response to this event should be speaking volumes, and the thunderous silence a HTFU b!tch-slap to pansies like Ripard et al.

F

Would you like to know more?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2950 - 2014-03-26 15:56:03 UTC
Iso Anneto wrote:
Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
He consents to both.

Please explain to me EXACTLY how you come to this conclusion.

Be as specific as possible.
He says he consents to both.

There's really no wrangling your way out this, it's plainly stated on the recording, so I'm done responding to this asinine line of argument.

But as a sorted of deleted-scene-DVD-extra, here's what I would have said if, by some magic, you could demonstrate that the client did not say what he said - who cares? CCP are not the police, and neither are we, and a grey-area TS recording is nothing to do with either.


He consents to recording while being recorded... That makes lots of sense?


You sound like you're supporting E1 there, since that statement says that he consented out of the recording because if he didn't, he would've known they were recording and told them not to, but we heard nothing like that.

There's no consent with coercion. Obviously after having his stuff taken and fearing if he didn't do what they said and agreed to what they asked they would not return it there was coercion. No consent at all.

Really irrelevant though unless he sues them.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2951 - 2014-03-26 15:56:10 UTC
I don't understand
Why couldn't you just
Walk
Away from it?
Bl1ng Bl1ng
Scalar Aurora
#2952 - 2014-03-26 15:56:25 UTC
Quote:

¨
Wrong. Parents are responsible for reactions and actions of their kids. In your example, the ex-lover may be held responsible for not trying to prevent suicide had he known the other person is mentally unstable. Your generalisation is missleading.


Hence why I fear for the mental stability of Sohkar's kids since he obviously will not teach them they always have the choice to walk away from situations like these.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#2953 - 2014-03-26 15:56:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Powers Sa wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


Burn Jita, Interdictions, etc, were not aimed at any particular individual.

I've noticed you in palas the past few weeks and let you be. If you're going to start posting again, I may have to fire the engines of woe back up.


I've been posting constantly for years. Where have you been ????????

I have no idea where or what Palas is. Troll and most indeed.

And an irrelevant post that strangely ties into the same problems folks are having with ingame behaviors here in this thread.

Well played. Except that psychological warfare doesn't really work at your level of lame.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#2954 - 2014-03-26 15:57:11 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
One thing strikes me as odd.

There are forum rules prohibiting personal attacks and ranting. Since this entire thread is based on a personal attack and almost every post in it contains more personal attacks and ranting, shouldn't it be locked or something? ISD Ezwal must be on vacation.

Never mind, he's probably just on page 50 or something and still trying to catch up.


As much as I agree, it would cause the already riled up masses to get more pissy.
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#2955 - 2014-03-26 15:57:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Upde
Batelle wrote:
Delicious Charen-Teng wrote:
I can't believe that this community is justifying a person treating another person like this. I've even heard CSM member likening people's anger against this to the behaviour of a homophobic dictator.

Is this the 'New' Eden.

Not at all sure I want to be a part of it anymore.


Better read those CSM posts more carefully then. He's merely stating that banning erotica1 is not justified in this situation. That's not the same as justifying any of erotica1's actions.


this is why the situation is getting ugly. Its down to interpretation

the actions were not justified by CSM but the interpretation being applied is that they are being condoned because there is no open statement saying that the out of EVE meta on TS was over the mark. We as EVE players can look at this whole situation and stick it into the "oh another QQ thread to add to all the others" put the lid on the box and move on, but now that there is more public attention being drawn onto this it is not as simple as that anymore or maybe it is. It all rests with 2 things now

1. CCP's response if any
2. Media follow up if any

if 1 and 2 yield nothing then its business as usual

If CCP decline to make their position known and media fan the flames then its the dangerzone because CCP will then be backed into a corner and will have to do something that might well end up affecting us all unless CCP go all YOLO and ride out any media storm that may or may not ensue.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2956 - 2014-03-26 15:59:08 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Iso Anneto wrote:
Seriously people?
This guy could at ANY time leave the channel. He even knew what was going on (he said he did in TS anyway), he could have left, he stayed because he wanted the money, it's his fault he was "tortured", simply because he was greedy. If he had cut his losses or not been greedy, he could've avoided all of this. Pure greed is the cause. And E1 Beijing insane, but mostly greed.

Exactly.

While I don't aggree with the level of what Erotica1 did, I will fight to the death for his right to do it. Sandbox remember? (also, see: freedom of speech parallel)

What's really pathetic here is touchy feely pansies like Ripard Teg are using this event as a soapbox to try and validate his carebear-loving ways, and assuage his personal moral outrage -- by going to the extreme of calling for nerfs or changes to the TOS. Know what Ripard, if you are so upset why not put money where mouth is and UNSUB to go play WoW with the other pansies?

No no no... Elitist's like Ripard don't counter sandbox events like this by directly helping the 'victim' with ISK donations, or calling for donations to the victim as remedy and calling it a day...NO, elitist Tzars from on high always insist on changing *your game* based on *their feelings*.

I weep for the fact HTFU in EvE is dying a death of 1,000 cuts unchallenged, because activist pansies like Ripard and Trebor are on the CSM.

tldr;
Don't tell Erotica1 or anyone how to play their game. EvE is a sandbox, or its not. CCP's (non) response to this event should be speaking volumes, and the thunderous silence a HTFU b!tch-slap to pansies like Ripard et al.

F

Except if CCP continues to allow this to occur and someone self harms because of it they could be vicariously liable so they can't just ignore it. In some areas what they did is a criminal offence so its hardly a matter of freedom. You don't have freedom to abuse and vilify people. You agree to give up those freedoms in exchange for the rule of law. If you want to live in anarchy perhaps Afghanistan is a better place for you?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2957 - 2014-03-26 15:59:17 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
So I just went to the library.

A woman shows up, sits next to me, passes out and is snoring really loud.
This is obviously inappropriate behavior, she obviously singled me out, she's obviously done this to other people before, and it's making me crazy.

Should I walk away, and tell one of the librarians, or is it acceptable to go into a ugly racist rant and threaten to gut her?

What does Rippard Teg and his minions think?




Clearly you must steal her wallet, phone or anything she holds dear, then proceed to wake her up and refuse to return the said goods unless she dances, sings, reads every book in the library or strips? Record the entire thing and put it on as much social media as possible.


Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2958 - 2014-03-26 16:01:04 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:
One thing strikes me as odd.

There are forum rules prohibiting personal attacks and ranting. Since this entire thread is based on a personal attack and almost every post in it contains more personal attacks and ranting, shouldn't it be locked or something? ISD Ezwal must be on vacation.

Never mind, he's probably just on page 50 or something and still trying to catch up.


As much as I agree, it would cause the already riled up masses to get more pissy.


That would be hilarious.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#2959 - 2014-03-26 16:02:07 UTC
Bl1ng Bl1ng wrote:
Quote:

¨
Wrong. Parents are responsible for reactions and actions of their kids. In your example, the ex-lover may be held responsible for not trying to prevent suicide had he known the other person is mentally unstable. Your generalisation is missleading.


Hence why I fear for the mental stability of Sohkar's kids since he obviously will not teach them they always have the choice to walk away from situations like these.


what have his kids got to do with internet spaceships........... ??? Thats bringing IRL stuff into pew pew space/ The whole argument being put forth on this bonus room event is that it is nothing to do with IRL but you bringing his kids into this kind of makes it not about the game anymore doesn't it ?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2960 - 2014-03-26 16:02:24 UTC
Can somebody please remind me how many times Sohkar left the Bonus Room....only to return?




And this question would be directed to those who actually listened to the recording in its entirety...not the sheeple who just read the blog and are therefore experts in this situation....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?