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Faction Warfare - Where to post Crucible?
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Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-11-29 03:42:07 UTC
Well, we've seen the patch notes. They fixed the plex timer. A welcome fix, but so much more was needed. Things that are hard to refute the need for include:

  1. The issue of sec status being lowered for performing RR on a militia who is < -5
  2. The offside militia not having an overview option to see that you are shooting potential (I say potential) allies...
  3. No balance of plex/missions and a stop to SB mission farming


At least they didn't take out the NPC navies from high sec..

So what now? The noise needs to be continued to ensure further work on FW. The CSM summit is coming and FW is supposed to be a topic of discussion, but it seems no one on the CSM knows much about FW, so don't know what needs to be discussed with CCP. So it seems that we need to:

  1. Get them up to speed - this is something Hans has been doing with his discussions and more support is needed in this area.
  2. Find a suitable candidate for teh four miltias to get behind for the next CSM elections to ensure FW has a proper voice.
  3. Put more pressure on CCP to engage with us directly on the forums

mingetek
Brainless in Space
#2 - 2011-11-29 08:06:36 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
Well, we've seen the patch notes. They fixed the plex timer. A welcome fix, but so much more was needed. Things that are hard to refute the need for include:

  1. The issue of sec status being lowered for performing RR on a militia who is < -5
  2. The offside militia not having an overview option to see that you are shooting potential (I say potential) allies...
  3. No balance of plex/missions and a stop to SB mission farming


At least they didn't take out the NPC navies from high sec..

So what now? The noise needs to be continued to ensure further work on FW. The CSM summit is coming and FW is supposed to be a topic of discussion, but it seems no one on the CSM knows much about FW, so don't know what needs to be discussed with CCP. So it seems that we need to:

  1. Get them up to speed - this is something Hans has been doing with his discussions and more support is needed in this area.
  2. Find a suitable candidate for teh four miltias to get behind for the next CSM elections to ensure FW has a proper voice.
  3. Put more pressure on CCP to engage with us directly on the forums




to stop stealth bombers online... simple. no cloaking devices allowed int he mission AT ALL! if you have one fitted denied to enter the missions gate ( assuming it has one )
..
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-11-29 08:18:44 UTC
WTB cloaky fitting service...
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#4 - 2011-11-29 20:29:50 UTC
Was finishing a post just when forums died this morning .. sadness.
mingetek wrote:
to stop stealth bombers online... simple. no cloaking devices allowed int he mission AT ALL! if you have one fitted denied to enter the missions gate ( assuming it has one )

Solves the bomber issue but also removes other legitimate options, personally had great fun using a Pilgrim for instance. If you want to limit bomber effectiveness then target their weakness: Target Signature.
- Include the entire commander spawn as mission requirement. Adds 3-5 elite frigs/cruisers for a majority of missions which are nigh unkillable with torps .. can be done but it takes a while Big smile

My wishlist:
IMMERSION
- Answer all the Why's. There is no incentive to do anything in FW other than camp/roam pipes which we don't need FW to do
= Bring back the RP tie-in that kicked it off to start with .. Eve is more fun with rabid lunatics/fanatics shooting one another than with mail whores doing ditto.
= Make the areas appar more dynamic, doesn't really feel like there is a conflict going on. Someone suggested having NPCs bonk heads from time to time which could be sweet in moderation.

GRRRR ... WHORES!
- Nerf solo bombers in missions. Prefer it be done by mentioned means but several options exist, many downright nasty though Twisted
= Introduce kill-switches in missions so that people have to either fight for it or take the standings hit for failing
= Consider introducing special gang-oriented missions so roaming FW gangs can chew on something while enemy docks up or reships. Just be careful you don't make it too easy like small incursions which can be done solo/duo or by multi boxing.

YOUR SPACE .. I CAN HAZ?!?
- Give us the ability to make targeted assaults on territory by manipulating plex spawning (limited per day per system though). Could be done by hacking a bunker or anchoring a structure (consumed on spawn).
= Sort out the NPCs, either tweak or remove, just do something. Huge discrepancies in relative power/effectiveness due to eWar and weapon ranges..
= Allow missions to help with VP accumulation, say half "normal" VP added to system (ie. Lvl4 = 50% of a major plex). Only if kill switches are added though.

WHO THE HELL ARE THEY?
- Figure out if you want null monkeys to be able to shut down FW for extended periods of time (bridges, drops, etc.). If so then add mechanics to include them in FW proper.
= Consider ways for the RP alliances to join in an official capacity (many provide ISK and material support) .. has been asked for since FW first got on SiSi for Goddess sake!

That's it for now

PS: Yeah I lied when I said I wouldn't bother with FW lobby anymore .. so whatcha gonna do about it!!!!! Lol
Val Erian
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
#5 - 2011-11-29 20:31:51 UTC
[quote=Har Harrison]Well, we've seen the patch notes. They fixed the plex timer. A welcome fix, but so much more was needed.



They didnt 'fix it' . It was changed into something worse.

I havnt been on yet, but have received reliable reports. Now new plex system is a minor, medium and major plex spawn in each system. When one is done it respawns in 30 minutes.

Will need some investigation, but... potential 6 plexs an hour.. 5 hours if you get them all to make a system vulnerable.

one side does it. other side does it next day etc. after initial rush of system flips, try raising a bunker fleet.

and still no real reason to do the plexs and less reason to defend, just wait a while and flip it back if you can be bothered.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#6 - 2011-11-29 20:36:16 UTC
You are shitting me .. one of each and not one of random size?

Hahahahahahahahaha. There are not enough desks in Iceland for all /Facedesks that requires .. hahahahahaha
Garbad theWeak
#7 - 2011-11-29 21:01:44 UTC
Some ideas:

1. Don't nerf missions. Anything that gets bears into lowsec should stay.

2. Unique Combat Plexes for FW. A plex opens, allows in 5-8 ships per faction based on weight. Winner gets 75k LP per fleet member, standings, and so on. Open a few of these per day in contested systems to promote and reward small gang pvp.

3. Improve rewards for FW, more FW only items or BPs.

4. Reward LP for pvp kills and plex completion. Top 10 killers per week get a 10% LP reward and a medal.

5. Make gate/station guns in FW systems fire on members of the opposite faction to give a home court advantage. Also make hostile militia members unable to dock in stations of the other militia.

6. Ban all caps from FW space completely. Caps have no place in small gang, newbie friendly pvp.

7. Adjust the rules of engagement in FW space -- any kill of a militia member OR rep of a hostile militia member by a neut makes that person killable by any FW member for 15 minutes. Punish neut RReps, make it easier to counter attack hostile nuets in FW space.

The whole idea is to make pvp profitable to encourage it. FW should be all about small gangs and solo ships in a bloodbath, fighting for territory and rewards. Station camping and blobbing should be reduced, take that **** elsewhere. Likewise, neuts should be at a major disadvantage fighting in FW space.
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-11-30 11:24:05 UTC
I haven't been able to play enough to look at the plex mechanics now - is anyone able to confirm that it went from losing plexes in the respawn to pumping them out with such regularity that you can farm them???
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-11-30 11:39:25 UTC
A lot of speculation here so here are some quick facts.

1. Yes, the respawning makes sure that there is at least 1 of each size if the system gets cleared.

2. I have seen multiple systems with a ton of plexes, so no it isn't one per system for sure. I have a feeling that a mass amount are spawned then it dwindles to one of each size per system.

As far as sov races, yea, this is going to change the game. But lets not forget that to actually flip you still need to kill the bunker, which is no trivial task (time and manpower wise) so sov flipping back and forth would certainly open the door for some killer fleet fights.

I personally love the way it spawns atm. Whenever I pull GCC i just open up a fw plex and run it now. This is great for killing some dead time for me.

The way I see it plexes are made for getting our paticular flavor of pew, not so much for sov (not yet anyway). More plexes more pew, and this certainly opens the gates for some of the meaningful sov ideas we have been playing with.

Something to emphasize here. Hans stated that from his CSM correspondences that CCP is interested in what mechanics need fixing not how to fix them. If this is the case I think that us FW forum warriors need to start diverging from explaining our suggestion for fixes to:


  1. explaining what mechanics need changing
  2. what is wrong with those mechanics
  3. why changing them will improve fw and lowsec

I has all the eve inactivity
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#10 - 2011-11-30 11:42:36 UTC
Plexes on every time zone, that is what you asked for.

Now shut up and start to take systems.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#11 - 2011-11-30 11:56:29 UTC
Val Erian wrote:
[quote=Har Harrison]Well, we've seen the patch notes. They fixed the plex timer. A welcome fix, but so much more was needed.



They didnt 'fix it' . It was changed into something worse.

I havnt been on yet, but have received reliable reports. Now new plex system is a minor, medium and major plex spawn in each system. When one is done it respawns in 30 minutes.

Will need some investigation, but... potential 6 plexs an hour.. 5 hours if you get them all to make a system vulnerable.

one side does it. other side does it next day etc. after initial rush of system flips, try raising a bunker fleet.

and still no real reason to do the plexs and less reason to defend, just wait a while and flip it back if you can be bothered.






THAT IS JUST ONLY THING GALLENTE COULD EVER DO, TAKES PLEXES WHEN NO ONE SEE THEM TAKING THOSE.

Now you can do same again and make 50+ fleet and flip half region on one night, you did same before so why so mad now.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2011-11-30 12:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Was finishing a post just when forums died this morning .. sadness.
mingetek wrote:
to stop stealth bombers online... simple. no cloaking devices allowed int he mission AT ALL! if you have one fitted denied to enter the missions gate ( assuming it has one )

Solves the bomber issue but also removes other legitimate options, personally had great fun using a Pilgrim for instance. If you want to limit bomber effectiveness then target their weakness: Target Signature.
- Include the entire commander spawn as mission requirement. Adds 3-5 elite frigs/cruisers for a majority of missions which are nigh unkillable with torps .. can be done but it takes a while Big smile

My wishlist:
IMMERSION
- Answer all the Why's. There is no incentive to do anything in FW other than camp/roam pipes which we don't need FW to do
= Bring back the RP tie-in that kicked it off to start with .. Eve is more fun with rabid lunatics/fanatics shooting one another than with mail whores doing ditto.
= Make the areas appar more dynamic, doesn't really feel like there is a conflict going on. Someone suggested having NPCs bonk heads from time to time which could be sweet in moderation.

GRRRR ... WHORES!
- Nerf solo bombers in missions. Prefer it be done by mentioned means but several options exist, many downright nasty though Twisted
= Introduce kill-switches in missions so that people have to either fight for it or take the standings hit for failing
= Consider introducing special gang-oriented missions so roaming FW gangs can chew on something while enemy docks up or reships. Just be careful you don't make it too easy like small incursions which can be done solo/duo or by multi boxing.

YOUR SPACE .. I CAN HAZ?!?
- Give us the ability to make targeted assaults on territory by manipulating plex spawning (limited per day per system though). Could be done by hacking a bunker or anchoring a structure (consumed on spawn).
= Sort out the NPCs, either tweak or remove, just do something. Huge discrepancies in relative power/effectiveness due to eWar and weapon ranges..
= Allow missions to help with VP accumulation, say half "normal" VP added to system (ie. Lvl4 = 50% of a major plex). Only if kill switches are added though.

WHO THE HELL ARE THEY?
- Figure out if you want null monkeys to be able to shut down FW for extended periods of time (bridges, drops, etc.). If so then add mechanics to include them in FW proper.
= Consider ways for the RP alliances to join in an official capacity (many provide ISK and material support) .. has been asked for since FW first got on SiSi for Goddess sake!

That's it for now

PS: Yeah I lied when I said I wouldn't bother with FW lobby anymore .. so whatcha gonna do about it!!!!! Lol


Some good stuff there.

Regarding missions helping with VPs, how about tying missions into the RP side of things? For example, when FW started we had bigwigs from the factions telling their militias to go out and take specific systems. This could be a sign that missions will be concentrated in certain places. So let's say that Mr Big (ie CCP) tells his faction to capture system X. That would be accompanied by a high proportion of combat missions in that system and a load of courier missions moving stuff there as well. Completing the mission gives you VPs for that system. The flip side to this is that once you know that the mission runners will be congregating in a certain place, it's easier to do something about them Twisted

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#13 - 2011-11-30 12:07:16 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Was finishing a post just when forums died this morning .. sadness.
mingetek wrote:
to stop stealth bombers online... simple. no cloaking devices allowed int he mission AT ALL! if you have one fitted denied to enter the missions gate ( assuming it has one )

Solves the bomber issue but also removes other legitimate options, personally had great fun using a Pilgrim for instance. If you want to limit bomber effectiveness then target their weakness: Target Signature.
- Include the entire commander spawn as mission requirement. Adds 3-5 elite frigs/cruisers for a majority of missions which are nigh unkillable with torps .. can be done but it takes a while Big smile

My wishlist:
IMMERSION
- Answer all the Why's. There is no incentive to do anything in FW other than camp/roam pipes which we don't need FW to do
= Bring back the RP tie-in that kicked it off to start with .. Eve is more fun with rabid lunatics/fanatics shooting one another than with mail whores doing ditto.
= Make the areas appar more dynamic, doesn't really feel like there is a conflict going on. Someone suggested having NPCs bonk heads from time to time which could be sweet in moderation.

GRRRR ... WHORES!
- Nerf solo bombers in missions. Prefer it be done by mentioned means but several options exist, many downright nasty though Twisted
= Introduce kill-switches in missions so that people have to either fight for it or take the standings hit for failing
= Consider introducing special gang-oriented missions so roaming FW gangs can chew on something while enemy docks up or reships. Just be careful you don't make it too easy like small incursions which can be done solo/duo or by multi boxing.

YOUR SPACE .. I CAN HAZ?!?
- Give us the ability to make targeted assaults on territory by manipulating plex spawning (limited per day per system though). Could be done by hacking a bunker or anchoring a structure (consumed on spawn).
= Sort out the NPCs, either tweak or remove, just do something. Huge discrepancies in relative power/effectiveness due to eWar and weapon ranges..
= Allow missions to help with VP accumulation, say half "normal" VP added to system (ie. Lvl4 = 50% of a major plex). Only if kill switches are added though.

WHO THE HELL ARE THEY?
- Figure out if you want null monkeys to be able to shut down FW for extended periods of time (bridges, drops, etc.). If so then add mechanics to include them in FW proper.
= Consider ways for the RP alliances to join in an official capacity (many provide ISK and material support) .. has been asked for since FW first got on SiSi for Goddess sake!

That's it for now

PS: Yeah I lied when I said I wouldn't bother with FW lobby anymore .. so whatcha gonna do about it!!!!! Lol


Some good stuff there.

Regarding missions helping with VPs, how about tying missions into the RP side of things? For example, when FW started we had bigwigs from the factions telling their militias to go out and take specific systems. This could be a sign that missions will be concentrated in certain places. So let's say that Mr Big (ie CCP) tells his faction to capture system X. That would be accompanied by a high proportion of combat missions in that system and a load of courier missions moving stuff there as well. Completing the mission gives you VPs for that system. The flip side to this is that once you know that the mission runners will be congregating in a certain place, it's easier to do something about them Twisted


How about going now to roleplay little more and start defending amarr systems, some minmatars seem to have attack going on.

I prefer that roleplaying is something more than telling just fancy stories on forums. Focus on right things !
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-11-30 12:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Har Harrison
Bad Messenger wrote:
Val Erian wrote:
[quote=Har Harrison]Well, we've seen the patch notes. They fixed the plex timer. A welcome fix, but so much more was needed.



They didnt 'fix it' . It was changed into something worse.

I havnt been on yet, but have received reliable reports. Now new plex system is a minor, medium and major plex spawn in each system. When one is done it respawns in 30 minutes.

Will need some investigation, but... potential 6 plexs an hour.. 5 hours if you get them all to make a system vulnerable.

one side does it. other side does it next day etc. after initial rush of system flips, try raising a bunker fleet.

and still no real reason to do the plexs and less reason to defend, just wait a while and flip it back if you can be bothered.






THAT IS JUST ONLY THING GALLENTE COULD EVER DO, TAKES PLEXES WHEN NO ONE SEE THEM TAKING THOSE.

Now you can do same again and make 50+ fleet and flip half region on one night, you did same before so why so mad now.

What drugs are you on dude - I have NEVER done what you attribute to me. Look at my corp name. Does it give you a clue as to who I fight for - yup... you got it genius - AMARR!!! And trust me - the minnies saw me doing them when I have done them...
I have to say - in all of the FW discussions we have had, you have been by the the most arrogant and condescending to others I have seen, which is kind of special considering people like Hans are minmitar and therefore the guys I am shooting at...
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#15 - 2011-11-30 12:15:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
just wanted to mention that solo SB against minmatar militia lvl4 NPCs is quite hard. Its most of the time not worth the risk or to time consuming to fly solo SB.

The missiles make always damage so you would have to somehow tank a SB... additionally a BS can alpha strike you if you fly in the wrong angle.

Flying for other militias however is far to risk free, nobody hits you in a mission.

(so, being amarr, you ether take real ships into the mission or fleet up)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-11-30 12:16:57 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Plexes on every time zone, that is what you asked for.

Now shut up and start to take systems.


PERVS reunion?
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#17 - 2011-11-30 12:23:25 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Plexes on every time zone, that is what you asked for.

Now shut up and start to take systems.


PERVS reunion?


There has been talk about it.
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#18 - 2011-11-30 12:54:57 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
There has been talk about it.


Meet-up at Dodixie undock. I'll bring the dancers. Someone else bring the beer and food Lol
Val Erian
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
#19 - 2011-11-30 12:56:07 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Val Erian wrote:
[quote=Har Harrison]Well, we've seen the patch notes. They fixed the plex timer. A welcome fix, but so much more was needed.



They didnt 'fix it' . It was changed into something worse.

I havnt been on yet, but have received reliable reports. Now new plex system is a minor, medium and major plex spawn in each system. When one is done it respawns in 30 minutes.

Will need some investigation, but... potential 6 plexs an hour.. 5 hours if you get them all to make a system vulnerable.

one side does it. other side does it next day etc. after initial rush of system flips, try raising a bunker fleet.

and still no real reason to do the plexs and less reason to defend, just wait a while and flip it back if you can be bothered.






THAT IS JUST ONLY THING GALLENTE COULD EVER DO, TAKES PLEXES WHEN NO ONE SEE THEM TAKING THOSE.

Now you can do same again and make 50+ fleet and flip half region on one night, you did same before so why so mad now.



Nice caps.

Question: why will people in FW want to fight in plexs when they didnt before? Surely you know that talk about I would plex/fight if plexs in my tz is just talk? And if in their TZ there are plexs and no one to fight?
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2011-11-30 13:12:36 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:


How about going now to roleplay little more and start defending amarr systems, some minmatars seem to have attack going on.

I prefer that roleplaying is something more than telling just fancy stories on forums. Focus on right things !



Maybe I'll get out there again when the mechanics don't suck.

But you do know that PIE is the player corp with the highest number of VPs and is in the top ten for all-time FW kills, right?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
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