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Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2581 - 2014-03-26 12:12:39 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Bjurn Akely wrote:


No, EN24 did not say it. It was a comment. A very convincing one too.


Maybe convincing for people with a predetermined bias. That would be called subjective validation. It sure didn't convince me.

Point remains.


You make me think of an awesome Monty Python skit. Also, you had a point?
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#2582 - 2014-03-26 12:13:32 UTC
I have been playing this game for many many years now, and have never really been comfortable with the whole scamming thing. I think it spoils the game and actually drives people away. Scamming as become so prevalent in Eve its over taken the good aspects of it. Look at jita every single post in chat is a scam.

I dont like the fact that goonswarm do this constantly to a point its part of their culture, and sometimes the way they do it is a little creepy and weird and wrong.

But this is a whole new level, and its just not about a scam, its cyber bullying, torture at is very worse. I am sure this is certainly not the first case of this and its happening to others by other eve players.

You can hear from the start where this was going, and Erotica1 sounds really creepy tbh. They carried on for 2 hours, even when they knew the guy was getting upset, this is when you stop. Actually it should of never started.

This is for me the real darkside of eve, and where scamming takes it past gameplay. I have never played or seen a game that allows this to happen, or even breeds that type of person. The very idea of scamming has created these people, and CCP certainly has to take brunt of the blame for this as they endorse this type of behavior, but its gone a a step too far. as stated I am sure there are many Erotica1s lurking about.

This is just not scamming, its parasidic and morally wrong. Personally i would of called the police and given them the recording as people are now getting prosecuted for this type of thing. What gets me most is that there have been a few cases on twitter etc where people have committed suicide because of people like this. What if this guy did?

CCP has a duty just like twitter and others to protect its users.

However being a veteran player of this game, even after the time an investment i have made, every moral fibre in me is twitching. I am now seriously thinking do i want to pay, play or be a part of this game, ccp and its community if this is something that is happening to people. I certainly do not want to be associated with an organisation or game that endorses such actions and game play anymore.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Malcolm from Marketing
Klaatu Technologies
#2583 - 2014-03-26 12:13:40 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Some people should start answering the questions, instead of avoiding them.


They were answered. They were ignored. As I suspected, no one's really interested in answers, just a witchhunt.


No they were not.

If you'd be so kind as to point out Erotica's answer to this question that has been ignored many times by him, i'd be ever so appreciative, instead you seem to be blindly defending an indefensible event.

I've quoted the simple question below for your convenience and look forward to the reply.

Big Lynx wrote:

Fourth attempt:

Ok mate. Let's talk like adults. Concerning self-reflection, do you think you and your friends have gone too far?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2584 - 2014-03-26 12:14:11 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Erotica refused on no less than 10 separate occasions to answer the same simple and respectful question put to her.

Instead choosing transparent evasion and the false claim that "she had already answered it", when infact no less than 4 people can attest to there actually simply not being that answer in the first place.

Dishonest.


That would probably only matter in Sharia law but, people can claim what they want, it doesn't make it true. The actual physical evidence, where the question was answered, actually outweighs the anecdotal evidence. Testimony that is wrong... I believe you call that perjury?

Am I right? Cool

Also, you can't libel someone without identifying them. Anonymity protects your from libel. "Salvos Rhoska" has no real world reputation to damage so... you know, for a lawyer, you're not a very good one.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#2585 - 2014-03-26 12:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkPanter
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Like the so, so many you've ducked in the thread so far? I agree.


You might instead want to consider how many times you have directly tried to misrepresent my posts as to the effect of having any intent to cause anyone any physical harm.

They actually constitute libel, you know. And you perpetrated it more than once.
You can't go around accusing people of having violent intent without proof.

I'd sit down and shut up if I was you.


That sounds like a threat. You should calm down before you do something you regret.

I might also add that effective communication is the responsibility of the communicator. People wouldn't be 'misrepresenting' your points if you were making them with more succinct clarity. You have, indeed, dodged a wide variety of questions. You do a lot of dodging. I believe you when you say you're a lawyer.


A suggestion is far from a threat but we all see what we want to see right? After all that's what manipulation is about and clearly you are trying to take people words in such context that will benefit your cause even though it's derailing the original topic and has nothing to do with a fact...

And even IF then:

"I'd sit down and shut up if I was you" = "you should calm down before you do something you regret". And we're talking one line of text here lol. Sentence after sentence.

So... E1s alt, crap manipulator, stupid or hypocrite? (It's my conclusion not a insult nor threat for your touchy eyes)
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2586 - 2014-03-26 12:14:27 UTC
It needs two people for this: One that gives the other power over themselves and the other that abuses said power. The former you call stupid, the latter you call vile.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2587 - 2014-03-26 12:15:05 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
From my perspective, it would seem that the suffering and anguish he inflicts on the people in the Bonus Room is a source of great pleasure for him.

Else, why do it over and over. And there is demonstrably no other profit in the activity.


You've expressed that seeing him harmed in real life would be a source of great pleasure for you.

Let's ban you, too. Oh wait, we already should anyway, because you're the obscene racist in the videotape in the first place?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2588 - 2014-03-26 12:15:41 UTC
Bjurn Akely wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Bjurn Akely wrote:


No, EN24 did not say it. It was a comment. A very convincing one too.


Maybe convincing for people with a predetermined bias. That would be called subjective validation. It sure didn't convince me.

Point remains.


You make me think of an awesome Monty Python skit. Also, you had a point?


Point was in a quoted post that I removed to reduce the size of the quote train that was going on. The point was, just because it's on the internet, doesn't make it true.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Clara Pond
Never Not Snazzy
#2589 - 2014-03-26 12:17:42 UTC
Icylce wrote:

1.Erotica1 knows that there is high chance that he will get insulted by eveplayer if he does something considered "evil"(link to minerbumping + empyric experiece from various scams).
2. Erotica1 scams person, then puts him into bonus round.
3. Erotica1 puts the player in bonus round in helpless state (takes all assets) and aplies psychical pressure.
4. Erotica1 is surprised when said person breaks and insults him.
Conclusion:
I can't read.


1. Ero engineers a game with complex rules that is designed to be hard but not impossible to win
2. Person qualifies for a bonus round (higher stakes, harder version of game) for any of a number of reasons including 100th client
3. Ero plays the game with the client in some cases for six hours after he has all their assets, thus debunking any possibility it is a scam
4. Ero is completely unsurprised when a majority can't complete the deliberately complex game, and uses their losses to pay out the small number of winners as well as making a profit, the majority of which is donated to the New Order
5. Blogger throws a losing client under his publicity bus to wage a hilariously melodramatic and over-reached vendetta against gameplay he personally considers distasteful, alongside the many other gameplay elements he considers distasteful.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#2590 - 2014-03-26 12:17:48 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Erotica refused on no less than 10 separate occasions to answer the same simple and respectful question put to her.

Instead choosing transparent evasion and the false claim that "she had already answered it", when infact no less than 4 people can attest to there actually simply not being that answer in the first place.

Dishonest.


That would probably only matter in Sharia law but, people can claim what they want, it doesn't make it true. The actual physical evidence, where the question was answered, actually outweighs the anecdotal evidence. Testimony that is wrong... I believe you call that perjury?

Am I right? Cool

Also, you can't libel someone without identifying them. Anonymity protects your from libel. "Salvos Rhoska" has no real world reputation to damage so... you know, for a lawyer, you're not a very good one.


And building on that Salvos, since you claim E1 is so dishonest for not answering questions what does that make you considering you were asked at least thirty direct questions in Dinsdales thread on the refining changes and didnt answer a single one of them, choosing instead to resort to obfuscation and goalpost shifting.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#2591 - 2014-03-26 12:17:48 UTC
Can we have a 120 page threadnought about all the people who play the game the way I don't like i.e everyone who invades my designated personal constellation.

Oh god.
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#2592 - 2014-03-26 12:17:58 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:


This is just not scamming, its parasidic and morally wrong. Personally i would of called the police and given them the recording as people are now getting prosecuted for this type of thing. What gets me most is that there have been a few cases on twitter etc where people have committed suicide because of people like this. What if this guy did?

CCP has a duty just like twitter and others to protect its users.


And this is the big issue here.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2593 - 2014-03-26 12:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
PinkPanter wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Like the so, so many you've ducked in the thread so far? I agree.


You might instead want to consider how many times you have directly tried to misrepresent my posts as to the effect of having any intent to cause anyone any physical harm.

They actually constitute libel, you know. And you perpetrated it more than once.
You can't go around accusing people of having violent intent without proof.

I'd sit down and shut up if I was you.


That sounds like a threat. You should calm down before you do something you regret.

I might also add that effective communication is the responsibility of the communicator. People wouldn't be 'misrepresenting' your points if you were making them with more succinct clarity. You have, indeed, dodged a wide variety of questions. You do a lot of dodging. I believe you when you say you're a lawyer.


A suggestion is far from a threat but we all see what we want to see right? After all that's what manipulation is about and clearly you are trying to take people words in such context that will benefit your cause even though it's derailing the original topic and has nothing to do with a fact...

And even IF then:

"I'd sit down and shut up if I was you" = "you should calm down before you do something you regret".

So. E1s alt, crap manipulator, stupid or hypocrite? (It's my conclusion not a insult nor threat for your touchy eyes)


I'm a single account holder, I'm no one's alt. I neither support nor condemn the actions of Ero, and remain neutral to the topic. I still stand by that if Ero is banned, than so too should Sokhar be for his own vitriolic outbursts.

I'm here simply to address the flood of burning hatred and mouth froth stinking up my forums. Also, because it's entertaining. Stupid people are fun.

Especially the stupid people that confuse "that sounds like a threat" to "that was a threat".

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Druthlen
The Carlisle Group
#2594 - 2014-03-26 12:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Druthlen
I had no idea it was this bad. I always had respect for the New Order as they combat botters which I hate. However hurting people in real life. Well, I would really like to meet erotica one in real life. I want to know if he is a bad ass as he seems to think he is. Might be a cool guy you never could tell from this though.

Edit:I am going with my gut here. This guy is a total scumbag in real life. I hope he comes to a eve event. Please announce yourself and have a display with your emergent gameplay. That would be awesome.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2595 - 2014-03-26 12:21:16 UTC
Malcolm from Marketing wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Some people should start answering the questions, instead of avoiding them.


They were answered. They were ignored. As I suspected, no one's really interested in answers, just a witchhunt.


No they were not.

If you'd be so kind as to point out Erotica's answer to this question that has been ignored many times by him, i'd be ever so appreciative, instead you seem to be blindly defending an indefensible event.

I've quoted the simple question below for your convenience and look forward to the reply.

Big Lynx wrote:

Fourth attempt:

Ok mate. Let's talk like adults. Concerning self-reflection, do you think you and your friends have gone too far?



If you were actually interested in an answer, and not just hating for hatred's sake, and hadn't already made up your mind on the matter, with extreme prejudice...

You'd go find it for yourself. You'd WANT to find it for yourself.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Turelus
Utassi Security
#2596 - 2014-03-26 12:22:16 UTC
While I don't agree with what happens with the bonus rooms this really isn't anything new.

Pirates have been getting people to come on coms for years to answer ransoms or embarrass them, haven't we all watched this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9oAGnK9CU) in the past and had a good laugh? Or the many recordings of people singing to save their ships in ransoms.

Reading http://funkybacon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/eve-il-online-and-incredibly-silly-mr.html really reflected my opinion on the matter, the guy in this clip wasn't forced to do anything, he could have walked away at any time.

If you want CCP to start stepping in where does it end?

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#2597 - 2014-03-26 12:23:18 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Some people should start answering the questions, instead of avoiding them.

This won't happen because of the audio. It is no longer an abstract concept that people are merely uncomfortable with but has rather become personalised as people imagine being in the same situation. I think that is why so many are attempting to justify the contestant's threats when they are clearly worthy of a ban.

Just think how a care bear whinge thread would usually progress: usual rant to open, a few support posts, then the community descends like a ton of bricks. This one is different because the audio triggers a visceral response from anyone who hasn't yet been desensitised to it.

It was a mistake to release the audio. It could do great damage to the game.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2598 - 2014-03-26 12:23:23 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
From my perspective, it would seem that to Erotica1 the suffering and anguish people inflict upon themselves in the Bonus Room is a source of great pleasure for him.

Else, why do it over and over. And there is demonstrably no other profit in the activity.

And ofc there are many others who likewise vicariously enjoy this audio of a suffering individual, whether by participating live in these rephrehensible Bonus Rooms, or through the recordings that are afterwards disseminated throughout the game and its formats, without the consent to share them being given by the victim.

Ftfy.
You have to be a special kind of stupid to allow a stranger on the internet to have this kind of influence on you.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2599 - 2014-03-26 12:23:24 UTC
Druthlen wrote:
I had no idea it was this bad. I always had respect for the New Order as they combat botters which I hate. However hurting people in real life. Well, I would really like to meet erotica one in real life. I want to know if he is a bad ass as he seems to think he is.


I missed the part where making fun of someone is "hurting people in real life".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2600 - 2014-03-26 12:23:58 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:


This is just not scamming, its parasidic and morally wrong. Personally i would of called the police and given them the recording as people are now getting prosecuted for this type of thing. What gets me most is that there have been a few cases on twitter etc where people have committed suicide because of people like this. What if this guy did?

CCP has a duty just like twitter and others to protect its users.


And this is the big issue here.


U READ THAT ERO??