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Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#2401 - 2014-03-26 10:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bunnie Hop
This toxic thread sure gives me pause when considering my future in this game. This community has some nice players, but also the greatest concentration of venomous hateful people I have ever seen-all condoned (if not actively supported) by CCP. For now I forbid my daughter (an eve player-but only with supervision) from viewing these forums any further.
Jack Lennox
Grove Street Families
#2402 - 2014-03-26 10:42:40 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
just going to point out that you've confirmed your stance that running a scam in a game that encourages scams, is to you, less acceptable than physical violence.


I would laugh and applaud if someone kicked Erotica1 in the face at a Fanfest.
Nothing illegal about laughing or applauding, nor is it against EULA.

I would also laugh and applaud if Erotica1 was banned from the game.
Again, nothing illegal about laughing or applauding, nor is it against EULA.

Wouldn't you?





So you believe physical violence isn't as bad as scamming for fake money?

Been ganked? Robbed? Space feelings hurt?  Now there's something you can do! Fill out a Customer Service Comment Card!  EIther that or contact everyone's favorite Space Detective for an instant ban!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2403 - 2014-03-26 10:43:17 UTC
Upde wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
got as far as page 24 lastnight...wake up to this.
feel the need to chime in here in support for Malcanis, regardless of what ye all think of Erotica 1 , pitchforks and torches are not the answer, its way too vague a precedent to set and leaves ccp open for frankly offensive demands. i actually completely agree with him on the homosexuality/Russian block thing (i had the exact same concern).
mittens was treated as he was because he was a representative of both players and ccp and ****** up in the the same room as most of the ccp staff.

don get me wrong here , i was bullied as a kid, rather badly and find the bonus room to be somewhat disgusting but given that it dosent break the tos or the eula....well then.

Also, seriously, who the **** trusts strangers on the internet


its not about the TOS or the EULA though is it.

yes, yes it is. i dont like the bonus room, but you really need to put some considerable effort into getting screwed that hard, BY A STRANGER ON THE INTERNET, especially as a grown man.

no, i mightn't like it but what we are looking at here is the fringe case,
i very much doubt that anyone inspired by this whole affair, or jesters blog (Jackass) will execute their iterations as well or as meticulous as Erotica1. i foresee plenty of poor imitations of it that ccp WILL need to come down on .

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Wesley Otsdarva
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2404 - 2014-03-26 10:44:25 UTC
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2405 - 2014-03-26 10:44:31 UTC
Once again, fellow players.... your ire is misplaced.
We do NOT want to open this can of worms.

This is all I have to say on the subject:

Remember when everybody wanted Tank CEO banned (not for breaking the rules, but just because 90% of the players didn't like him)? Kinda the same thing, here. Tank pointed out loopholes and exploits that other people were using to get past the rules, and his conduct created new rules that have helped to make EVE thrive.
Like it or not, we needed Tank.

Now, Erotica 1 is running a high-stakes gambling event. Nothing more. He's not exploiting bugs, or pointing out flawed rules. He's asking you to risk, and offering a possible reward. End of story.
Erotica's "bonus round" is no different than any real life casino in Vegas. You walk in, and blow every dime you have, that's not the house's problem. You could have stepped away at any time. Nobody forced you to stay. They just made it a little easier for you to choose that option.

I wouldn't call a slot machine a form of bullying. Chances are it WILL take everything you put into it, and give nothing back.
Winners are paid by the "donations" of the losers.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2406 - 2014-03-26 10:44:35 UTC
Banning someone won't fix all the naive and mentally unhinged people out there, now will it?

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#2407 - 2014-03-26 10:44:46 UTC
Jack Lennox wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
just going to point out that you've confirmed your stance that running a scam in a game that encourages scams, is to you, less acceptable than physical violence.


I would laugh and applaud if someone kicked Erotica1 in the face at a Fanfest.
Nothing illegal about laughing or applauding, nor is it against EULA.

I would also laugh and applaud if Erotica1 was banned from the game.
Again, nothing illegal about laughing or applauding, nor is it against EULA.

Wouldn't you?





So you believe physical violence isn't as bad as scamming for fake money?


Fake money and scams is not the case here.

Using EVE as a platform for predatiorial/bullying practices very much is.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#2408 - 2014-03-26 10:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Erotica 1
Mara Rinn wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
I would have worked to set clear guidelines that the alleged scammer knows what's kosher and what's not.


The problem is that if you draw definitive lines in the sand, the boundary-pushers will keep sticking their toes over the line in an attempt to push the line further out of their way.

So no, don't expect any clear ideas of what is "kosher".


But we read about all of this well in advance. This "scandal" was public awhile ago on a widely followed blog, www.minerbumping.com which CCP reads. People are only angry now because Ripard (sp?) told them to be.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2409 - 2014-03-26 10:45:52 UTC
dexington wrote:
Big Lynx wrote:
Biggest mistake of ero et al. was to make that audio recordings public. He killed his "business" and reputation with that. I think he knows that, but he will never admit it.


He wanted them to be public, that was why he made the recording. This was never about isk, he wants to humiliate the person, that is why he does it.

This has nothing to do with spaceships or eve, besides from the fact that eve is the only games that allows this kind of behavior. If he was allowed to do the same in wow, he would probably not play eve in the first place.


"he wants to humiliate the person" Why on earth would he need to do that? Sohkar did that himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2410 - 2014-03-26 10:47:58 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
I would have worked to set clear guidelines that the alleged scammer knows what's kosher and what's not.


The problem is that if you draw definitive lines in the sand, the boundary-pushers will keep sticking their toes over the line in an attempt to push the line further out of their way.

So no, don't expect any clear ideas of what is "kosher".


But we read about all of this well in advance. This "scandal" was public awhile ago on a widely followed blog, www.minerbumping.com which CCP reads. People are only angry now because Ripard (sp?) told them to be.


Yep. Called it earlier, this is a manufactured crisis. The only real question is why Ripard is doing this at this time.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#2411 - 2014-03-26 10:48:10 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Once again, fellow players.... your ire is misplaced.
We do NOT want to open this can of worms.

This is all I have to say on the subject:

Remember when everybody wanted Tank CEO banned (not for breaking the rules, but just because 90% of the players didn't like him)? Kinda the same thing, here. Tank pointed out loopholes and exploits that other people were using to get past the rules, and his conduct created new rules that have helped to make EVE thrive.
Like it or not, we needed Tank.

Now, Erotica 1 is running a high-stakes gambling event. Nothing more. He's not exploiting bugs, or pointing out flawed rules. He's asking you to risk, and offering a possible reward. End of story.
Erotica's "bonus round" is no different than any real life casino in Vegas. You walk in, and blow every dime you have, that's not the house's problem. You could have stepped away at any time. Nobody forced you to stay. They just made it a little easier for you to choose that option.

I wouldn't call a slot machine a form of bullying. Chances are it WILL take everything you put into it, and give nothing back.
Winners are paid by the "donations" of the losers.


Lol casinos are very much regulated and so are bullying actions.
Deliberate actions that lead to exploit people in any way and then publicly make fun of them well that's a possible criminal case already.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#2412 - 2014-03-26 10:48:39 UTC
Well it was fun for awhile, but it's really absurd that people care about this so much. I mean if you look and see, I didn't post until page like, 87. That's how little of a deal this is.
"The guy's feelings are hurt." Or even better "maybe something like this might upset someone". Man there's people all over the world with hurt feelings. Everyone has them. Because our feelings aren't hurt right now, we get to look at someone who has them and empathize, and imagine what it is to be that guy, but then immediately imagine how much better it is for me, that it's him and not me.
It's entertaining.

None of this actually matters. We're all on the internet and we understand that this is no place that actually matters.

People say and do stupid things all the time. Others get to think it's funny just as much as you get to say it's not.

It's still wrong though. You can't encourage this type of behavior because then it becomes the norm. The parties involved should be judged and dealt with. There has to be consequences to deter it, to make it seem less appealing. People will still do it, yes, but at risk, so they better make sure they do a good job of it and make it worth it because it will cost them.

If there's no reason not to do it, it will happen more frequently, which has happened here. It's no longer a big deal most of the time. The abuse taking place has become common. Non-interesting. Typical. But it is wrong. You can't "allow" it because then it becomes the place that "allows" it. It will become "that" place. The place that lets people treat others like that.

Both sides need to be removed from the game. Erotica1 for taking advantage of someone for the purpose of his personal amusement, and whatever the other guy's name. There's no excuse for either of them to act that way. It doesn't matter which one is more right and which one is more wrong. How they compare to each other is irrelevant because both actions are wrong under an overall context.
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2413 - 2014-03-26 10:49:32 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Once again, fellow players.... your ire is misplaced.
We do NOT want to open this can of worms.

This is all I have to say on the subject:

Remember when everybody wanted Tank CEO banned (not for breaking the rules, but just because 90% of the players didn't like him)? Kinda the same thing, here. Tank pointed out loopholes and exploits that other people were using to get past the rules, and his conduct created new rules that have helped to make EVE thrive.
Like it or not, we needed Tank.

Now, Erotica 1 is running a high-stakes gambling event. Nothing more. He's not exploiting bugs, or pointing out flawed rules. He's asking you to risk, and offering a possible reward. End of story.
Erotica's "bonus round" is no different than any real life casino in Vegas. You walk in, and blow every dime you have, that's not the house's problem. You could have stepped away at any time. Nobody forced you to stay. They just made it a little easier for you to choose that option.

I wouldn't call a slot machine a form of bullying. Chances are it WILL take everything you put into it, and give nothing back.
Winners are paid by the "donations" of the losers.


Lol casinos are very much regulated and so are bullying actions.
Deliberate actions that lead to exploit people in any way and then publicly make fun of them well that's a possible criminal case already.


Your saying criminal case. You are discussing the death threats towards Erotica 1 are you not? Or are you defending a racist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Genseric Tollaris
Hard Cog Industry
#2414 - 2014-03-26 10:50:28 UTC
The west must be getting very soft for so many to have lost their **** over this farce.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#2415 - 2014-03-26 10:51:44 UTC
Alyth Nerun wrote:
Everyone in this thread should just take a step back, maybe drink a glass of water and calm down.

I really have a hard time to understand how anyone can call this cyberbullying or torture with a straight face. After all we are talking about game characters here and not about an attack on a persons real life. Everyone who can't see that difference has lost his perspective and can't separate fiction from reality anymore and should probably stay away from this kind of RPG.

I hope this thread gives Erotica 1 the publicity to get elected to the CSM and replace Reta.. sorry, Ripart Teg.

Erotica 1 4 CMS9


What part of the TS happened in game? If you had the guts to listen to that sound cloud part you would think twice about reality and fiction. The bullying was real and so the threads sent back at the sociopaths, but it all happened out of game so it's ok, right?
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#2416 - 2014-03-26 10:54:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Erotica 1
Or we could discuss this as reasonable adults and treat this as opportunity for open dialog. You don't see me pasting talking points repeatedly. You see me wishing to discuss it. I would even call it a debate, let's just have an honest dialogue. I can reflect and concede some points, as can you. That's how we move forward. Not with crazy rhetoric.

*edit* I don't want Sohkar banned. I would like him to be able to play the damn game. If it just ended with the minerbumping posts, we'd have a story soon forgotten of an anonymous guy who lost a bonus round for being a Goofus. Now this poor guy is being dragged into someone's warpath against me in a very public way- in a way meant by the whiteknight carebear ethicists to use any means necessary no matter the consequences just to get at me.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2417 - 2014-03-26 10:55:51 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:

Lol casinos are very much regulated and so are bullying actions.
Deliberate actions that lead to exploit people in any way and then publicly make fun of them well that's a possible criminal case already.


This is why this generation is so boned.
Everything that makes you feel bad, or ashamed of yourself, or like you MIGHT have made the wrong choice, is called bullying.

People accused the US military of "bullying" the Middle East when we went into Afghanistan to hunt down some terrorist that murdered 5000 civilians.
A man in Tacoma, WA is violently assaulted by his wife for an imagined slight, and he responds by shoving her out the door and locking it. He ends up getting arrested and charged with domestic abuse.
A child in pretty much any town decides to break every rule his parents lay out, and is rewarded with a belt across his backside... well, those parents are OBVIOUSLY horrible monsters out to stifle their child's personality.

You see where I'm going with this? When you did it to yourself, you don't get to call the other person a bully.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Lady Areola Fappington
#2418 - 2014-03-26 10:56:15 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Alyth Nerun wrote:
Everyone in this thread should just take a step back, maybe drink a glass of water and calm down.

I really have a hard time to understand how anyone can call this cyberbullying or torture with a straight face. After all we are talking about game characters here and not about an attack on a persons real life. Everyone who can't see that difference has lost his perspective and can't separate fiction from reality anymore and should probably stay away from this kind of RPG.

I hope this thread gives Erotica 1 the publicity to get elected to the CSM and replace Reta.. sorry, Ripart Teg.

Erotica 1 4 CMS9


What part of the TS happened in game? If you had the guts to listen to that sound cloud part you would think twice about reality and fiction. The bullying was real and so the threads sent back at the sociopaths, but it all happened out of game so it's ok, right?




There is a tremendous difference between "OK" and "Problem CCP should address". If you start requiring CCP to police actions that occur off of CCPs servers, you open a huge can of very easily exploitable worms.

Example: "CCP, please ban Alyth. Here's a public TS recording of him being racist and evil. His denial (with a different voice) means nothing, he could get anyone to read a script for him."

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Navi Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2419 - 2014-03-26 10:56:36 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
Or we could discuss this as reasonable adults and treat this as opportunity for open dialog. You don't see me pasting talking points repeatedly. You see me wishing to discuss it. I would even call it a debate, let's just have an honest dialogue. I can reflect and concede some points, as can you. That's how we move forward. Not with crazy rhetoric.


If you are planning a debate please record it and or put it up on twitch please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-JfK-wwFU
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#2420 - 2014-03-26 10:57:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Upde
PinkPanter wrote:
[quote=Jarod Garamonde]Once again, fellow players.... your ire is misplaced.
We do NOT want to open this can of worms.

This is all I have to say on the subject:

Remember when everybody wanted Tank CEO banned (not for breaking the rules, but just because 90% of the players didn't like him)? Kinda the same thing, here. Tank pointed out loopholes and exploits that other people were using to get past the rules, and his conduct created new rules that have helped to make EVE thrive.
Like it or not, we needed Tank.

Now, Erotica 1 is running a high-stakes gambling event. Nothing more. He's not exploiting bugs, or pointing out flawed rules. He's asking you to risk, and offering a possible reward. End of story.
Erotica's "bonus round" is no different than any real life casino in Vegas. You walk in, and blow every dime you have, that's not the house's problem. You could have stepped away at any time. Nobody forced you to stay. They just made it a little easier for you to choose that option.

I wouldn't call a slot machine a form of bullying. Chances are it WILL take everything you put into it, and give nothing back.
Winners are paid by the "donations" of the losers.


But the Casino does not release CCTV footage and recording of you to the public for their amusement after they fleece you. That is the difference. If Govesnor casino group released public humiliation tapes of their punters do you think they would still be in business ? This sin't about the scam, its not even really about E1, its about leveraging CCP IP to get kicks out of someone elses misfortune outsdie of the sandbox. Thats a whole world of difference. I think the scam to get the ISK in the first place is genius and totally within the ruleset of EVE. Publically denegrating the scamee post scam is where the issue potentially lies for CCP wheter it be in game or not it is still directly linked to CCPs products and services.