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KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#1741 - 2014-03-26 03:28:24 UTC
What a ******* joke. I really wish bloggers were forced to fact check prior to posting something.

First off, how does Riptard know what goes on in a Bonus Round?

By his extensive cross-section of one case study?

We have literally had trolls roll accounts to play the Bonus Round. Trolls who play all the way through and then "manufacture" their "outrage" to the point where it is blatantly obvious they are trolling.

How about the winners? Do you ever hear about those? Of course not. Because no one wants to hear about a dozen or more dudes scrambling around looking for isk to payout a client.

No, EvE doesn't thrive on those stories.

ALOD on TMC is a testament to that.

The NC. renter Sov Drop heist is a testament to that.

Grand Theft Carrier (The YT video) is a testament to that.

Goons claiming, "We aren't here to ruin the game, we are here to ruin YOUR game," is a testament to that.

The Guiding Hand heist is a testament to that.

The EvE Bank heist is a testament to that.

These are the damn stories that attract players to EvE, a game universe that has been touted as cruel and unforgiving.

But instead of citing "other" examples, let's have a look at the Bonus Round.

Fact: Permission to record is asked EVERY SINGLE BONUS ROUND.

Fact: Format never changes. Sometimes people add in incentives during the normal format. Period.

Fact: No one holds a gun to the head of a client and says, "You have to play the Bonus Round, or you will die."

Fact: Multiple 100th clients opt out of the Bonus Room, choosing to lose their isk instead, as per bio rules.

Fact: There have been winners. Some in the form of isk. Others have won in far greater ways. One in particular I know of walked away with about 10b within two days of the Bonus Round he played. And agreed with our playstyles. As a carebear.

Fact: You never, ever hear an escrow or Ero be rude, hateful, hurtful, or anything else...to anyone during a Bonus Round.

Fact: The comms on which the Bonus Round is hosted has a strict anti-rascism/anti-homophobic stance, as does the Bonus Round itself.

Fact: The Bonus Round itself is simply an amalgamation of numerous "everyday" EvE traditions. Such as singing. Guess it was equally sociopathic when CCP Gargant was forced to sing to keep his Legion, while leading a new player experience fleet.Roll

And fact: We have had so-called "EvE celebrities" sit in on the bonus round. I won't say who, for their sake, and out of respect, but still. Guess those individuals are to be held accountable because someone else, a so-called "victim," cannot control their composure during a game, amiright?

And how do I know these things as fact?

Because I do not have one, but...

Every.

Single.

Recording.

Made.

So Riptard's base analysis, is exactly that, base analysis. He couldn't take the time to check and see if facts are true, but rather use a fringe example to try and ruin the name of a fellow player.

As a representative of our community.

Last time someone singled out a player for a public audience, and sat on the CSM, he was given the boot.

Just saying.

Fact goes a lot further than conjecture, Rip. And attacking when you do not hold all of the facts, is usually not the wisest move.

Roll

*Side note: As a participant in escrowing Bonus Rounds, I will easily and willingly put myself on trial, hand over all of my recordings, screens, and logs; and wait patiently as you peruse hours of content that was created using your game, played as "evil space pirates," as per the marketing your game has made for itself across a decade.

In return for that show of good faith, I would ask kindly for the betterment of the player base he is elected to represent, that you remove the CSM who resorts to lies and slander to further his own political machinations via hurtful analogies, and incomplete analysis.

Thank you, and as always I appreciate all of the work you do, CCP. Your game is one in a million. A social experiment of grand proportions. I hope you stay true to that vision.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Winchester Steele
#1742 - 2014-03-26 03:28:30 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:


Its a huge legal liability for CCP too, because who knows what could potentially culminate out of this degree of OUT OF GAME abuse of other players, including someone getting physically hurt or at worst some nut showing up to a Fanfest with a home-made pipebomb.


I can imagine the news report.

"Disgruntled EVE player visits violence upon innocent fangoers after being scammed out of virtual assets which he did not legally own."



Dont forget the second part.

'Said person is gifted with billions of isk, supers of choice, and other EVE goodies by sympathetic community"



Yes lets reward the racist **** who threatened to gut another players mom. You definitely are not ****** in the head.

...

stoicfaux
#1743 - 2014-03-26 03:28:42 UTC
I can see Erotica being banned. Not for breaking any particular rule, but because it causes non-trivial damage to EVE's, CCP's, (and even the player-base's) reputations.

EVE is a game that is already infamous for blurring the line between in-game and out-of-game sociopathic behavior. At some point, CCP (and the players) will need to decide what we want to be known for, otherwise we risk turning EVE's notoriety and infamy into shame and embarrassment.


More importantly, investors, present and future, don't like this kind of bad press.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1744 - 2014-03-26 03:28:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:


grapevine. Or, people who know people.


People who know people. Because third and fourth hand information is always reliable, right?

Ever play that game in school where one person whispers something in one persons ear, and then that person tells another, and that person tells another, and so on, until it goes around the room and the message has changed completely?

Yeah..pretty sure your friend's brother-in-law's ex-wife's former hair dresser's gardner's cousin thrice removed's next door neighbor's dogwalker who lives across the street from someone who knew Hilmar is not a reliable source.


Out of curiosity, is deliberately misrepresenting CCP communications bannable?


Comes under rumour mongering, gets you a ban from the forums.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#1745 - 2014-03-26 03:29:07 UTC
If CCP feels obligated to call international police to check in on a guy who says he's going to "kill himself", which isn't illegal, then they should also feel obligated to intervene in other matters.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#1746 - 2014-03-26 03:29:20 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


What's good for one is good for all, and if Erotica 1 gets banned for harrassment, then Sokhar needs to be banned for being threatening to another player. That's the bottom line.


They are indeed separate issues.
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#1747 - 2014-03-26 03:30:51 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
What a ******* joke. I really wish bloggers were forced to fact check prior to posting something.

First off, how does Riptard know what goes on in a Bonus Round?

By his extensive cross-section of one case study?

We have literally had trolls roll accounts to play the Bonus Round. Trolls who play all the way through and then "manufacture" their "outrage" to the point where it is blatantly obvious they are trolling.

How about the winners? Do you ever hear about those? Of course not. Because no one wants to hear about a dozen or more dudes scrambling around looking for isk to payout a client.

No, EvE doesn't thrive on those stories.

ALOD on TMC is a testament to that.

The NC. renter Sov Drop heist is a testament to that.

Grand Theft Carrier (The YT video) is a testament to that.

Goons claiming, "We aren't here to ruin the game, we are here to ruin YOUR game," is a testament to that.

The Guiding Hand heist is a testament to that.

The EvE Bank heist is a testament to that.

These are the damn stories that attract players to EvE, a game universe that has been touted as cruel and unforgiving.

But instead of citing "other" examples, let's have a look at the Bonus Round.

Fact: Permission to record is asked EVERY SINGLE BONUS ROUND.

Fact: Format never changes. Sometimes people add in incentives during the normal format. Period.

Fact: No one holds a gun to the head of a client and says, "You have to play the Bonus Round, or you will die."

Fact: Multiple 100th clients opt out of the Bonus Room, choosing to lose their isk instead, as per bio rules.

Fact: There have been winners. Some in the form of isk. Others have won in far greater ways. One in particular I know of walked away with about 10b within two days of the Bonus Round he played. And agreed with our playstyles. As a carebear.

Fact: You never, ever hear an escrow or Ero be rude, hateful, hurtful, or anything else...to anyone during a Bonus Round.

Fact: The comms on which the Bonus Round is hosted has a strict anti-rascism/anti-homophobic stance, as does the Bonus Round itself.

Fact: The Bonus Round itself is simply an amalgamation of numerous "everyday" EvE traditions. Such as singing. Guess it was equally sociopathic when CCP Gargant was forced to sing to keep his Legion, while leading a new player experience fleet.Roll

And fact: We have had so-called "EvE celebrities" sit in on the bonus round. I won't say who, for their sake, and out of respect, but still. Guess those individuals are to be held accountable because someone else, a so-called "victim," cannot control their composure during a game, amiright?

And how do I know these things as fact?

Because I do not have one, but...

Every.

Single.

Recording.

Made.

So Riptard's base analysis, is exactly that, base analysis. He couldn't take the time to check and see if facts are true, but rather use a fringe example to try and ruin the name of a fellow player.

As a representative of our community.

Last time someone singled out a player for a public audience, and sat on the CSM, he was given the boot.

Just saying.

Fact goes a lot further than conjecture, Rip. And attacking when you do not hold all of the facts, is usually not the wisest move.

Roll

*Side note: As a participant in escrowing Bonus Rounds, I will easily and willingly put myself on trial, hand over all of my recordings, screens, and logs; and wait patiently as you peruse hours of content that was created using your game, played as "evil space pirates," as per the marketing your game has made for itself across a decade.

In return for that show of good faith, I would ask kindly for the betterment of the player base he is elected to represent, that you remove the CSM who resorts to lies and slander to further his own political machinations via hurtful analogies, and incomplete analysis.

Thank you, and as always I appreciate all of the work you do, CCP. Your game is one in a million. A social experiment of grand proportions. I hope you stay true to that vision.



You seem scared.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#1748 - 2014-03-26 03:31:31 UTC
Personally, I am shaking in my boots over this eve-o general forum thread.
Winchester Steele
#1749 - 2014-03-26 03:32:27 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
What a ******* joke. I really wish bloggers were forced to fact check prior to posting something.

First off, how does Riptard know what goes on in a Bonus Round?

By his extensive cross-section of one case study?

We have literally had trolls roll accounts to play the Bonus Round. Trolls who play all the way through and then "manufacture" their "outrage" to the point where it is blatantly obvious they are trolling.

How about the winners? Do you ever hear about those? Of course not. Because no one wants to hear about a dozen or more dudes scrambling around looking for isk to payout a client.

No, EvE doesn't thrive on those stories.

ALOD on TMC is a testament to that.

The NC. renter Sov Drop heist is a testament to that.

Grand Theft Carrier (The YT video) is a testament to that.

Goons claiming, "We aren't here to ruin the game, we are here to ruin YOUR game," is a testament to that.

The Guiding Hand heist is a testament to that.

The EvE Bank heist is a testament to that.

These are the damn stories that attract players to EvE, a game universe that has been touted as cruel and unforgiving.

But instead of citing "other" examples, let's have a look at the Bonus Round.

Fact: Permission to record is asked EVERY SINGLE BONUS ROUND.

Fact: Format never changes. Sometimes people add in incentives during the normal format. Period.

Fact: No one holds a gun to the head of a client and says, "You have to play the Bonus Round, or you will die."

Fact: Multiple 100th clients opt out of the Bonus Room, choosing to lose their isk instead, as per bio rules.

Fact: There have been winners. Some in the form of isk. Others have won in far greater ways. One in particular I know of walked away with about 10b within two days of the Bonus Round he played. And agreed with our playstyles. As a carebear.

Fact: You never, ever hear an escrow or Ero be rude, hateful, hurtful, or anything else...to anyone during a Bonus Round.

Fact: The comms on which the Bonus Round is hosted has a strict anti-rascism/anti-homophobic stance, as does the Bonus Round itself.

Fact: The Bonus Round itself is simply an amalgamation of numerous "everyday" EvE traditions. Such as singing. Guess it was equally sociopathic when CCP Gargant was forced to sing to keep his Legion, while leading a new player experience fleet.Roll

And fact: We have had so-called "EvE celebrities" sit in on the bonus round. I won't say who, for their sake, and out of respect, but still. Guess those individuals are to be held accountable because someone else, a so-called "victim," cannot control their composure during a game, amiright?

And how do I know these things as fact?

Because I do not have one, but...

Every.

Single.

Recording.

Made.

So Riptard's base analysis, is exactly that, base analysis. He couldn't take the time to check and see if facts are true, but rather use a fringe example to try and ruin the name of a fellow player.

As a representative of our community.

Last time someone singled out a player for a public audience, and sat on the CSM, he was given the boot.

Just saying.

Fact goes a lot further than conjecture, Rip. And attacking when you do not hold all of the facts, is usually not the wisest move.

Roll

*Side note: As a participant in escrowing Bonus Rounds, I will easily and willingly put myself on trial, hand over all of my recordings, screens, and logs; and wait patiently as you peruse hours of content that was created using your game, played as "evil space pirates," as per the marketing your game has made for itself across a decade.

In return for that show of good faith, I would ask kindly for the betterment of the player base he is elected to represent, that you remove the CSM who resorts to lies and slander to further his own political machinations via hurtful analogies, and incomplete analysis.

Thank you, and as always I appreciate all of the work you do, CCP. Your game is one in a million. A social experiment of grand proportions. I hope you stay true to that vision.




Well said mate.

...

LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1750 - 2014-03-26 03:32:30 UTC  |  Edited by: LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Out of curiosity, is deliberately misrepresenting CCP communications bannable?



Im still here, E1 alt/sycophant.

You want to know why? Cause im not the one who lures vulnerable people into out-of-game unpoliced environments and emotionally rapes them for sadistic amusement.

So yeah, keep pushing that No-EULA breach, victim-at-fault, blame-everyone-else line.

Permabans incoming.

No other way this will end.
Tor Norman
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1751 - 2014-03-26 03:33:16 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
I can see Erotica being banned

I can't see him being banned. Precisely because the damage of the confidence that CCP's customers have in them would be far, far worse for the company than anything Erotica has ever done or could do.

I talk about EVE trading and general space violence in my blog.

For the ISK and the yarr!
Mario Putzo
#1752 - 2014-03-26 03:33:25 UTC
I think we need to formulate with an open vote a Charter of Rights and Freedoms
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#1753 - 2014-03-26 03:33:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


E1 did non of those things while the "victim" did fall under Harassment for his racially offensive and being threatening to another player.


He continuously baited someone with promises of giving his stuff back, while asking him to do humiliating things drawing attention to a speech impediment. Erotica1 specifically targeted this individual to aggravate him and take advantage of him for 2 hours.

That clearly falls under the guidelines quoted.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1754 - 2014-03-26 03:33:52 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


What's good for one is good for all, and if Erotica 1 gets banned for harrassment, then Sokhar needs to be banned for being threatening to another player. That's the bottom line.


They are indeed separate issues.


Clarify.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1755 - 2014-03-26 03:34:00 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
I can see Erotica being banned. Not for breaking any particular rule, but because it causes non-trivial damage to EVE's, CCP's, (and even the player-base's) reputations.

EVE is a game that is already infamous for blurring the line between in-game and out-of-game sociopathic behavior. At some point, CCP (and the players) will need to decide what we want to be known for, otherwise we risk turning EVE's notoriety and infamy into shame and embarrassment.


More importantly, investors, present and future, don't like this kind of bad press.



It's funny cuz this "bad press" is what gets subs.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1756 - 2014-03-26 03:34:39 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Out of curiosity, is deliberately misrepresenting CCP communications bannable?



Im still here, E1 alt/sycophant.

You want to know why? Cause im not the one who lures vulnerable people into out-of-game unpoliced environments and emotionally rates them for sadistic amusement.

So yeah, keep pushing that No-EULA breach, victim-at-fault, blame-everyone-else line.

Permabans incoming.

No other way this will end.


Keep at it, and maybe the moon really will be made of cheese. I guess you want Malcanis banned, too?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Salvos Rhoska
#1757 - 2014-03-26 03:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Xuixien wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Predating on the EVE player base for purposes of exploiting them in an OUT OF GAME "Bonus Room" however, is very against the EULA.
Again, please post the supporting elements of the EULA. Still waiting on that one.

Already did. You must have missed it. Look back, its there

Xuixien wrote:


Happens at the beginning of every Bonus Round that gets recorded. "We record every Bonus Round to protect us against EULA violations" - right at the beginning of this one. The client proceeds with the Bonus Round - that's implied consent.


Oh my dear XUIXUIXUI. Listen up.
First of all, the recording does not "protect you against EULA violations". That whole phrase is laughable :)
Funny to see how stupid the perpetrators of this actually are. Almost as stupid as their victims, tbh.
Second of all, implied consent=/=consent!
Third, they didn't ask for the right to distribute the recording.

Xuixien wrote:
Completely irrelevant, maybe it'll let you accept a plea bargain under "mitigating circumstances".

I see you've watched a few law soap operas, and completely misunderstood them!
Mitigating circumstances and "plea bargains" are completely unassociated.
The judge determines what are mitigating circumstances, by interpreting and applying the law. These apply to the SENTENCING.
Lawyers make the plea bargains, these apply only to what charges are pursued against the defendant by prosecution.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#1758 - 2014-03-26 03:35:25 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
What a ******* joke. I really wish bloggers were forced to fact check prior to posting something.

First off, how does Riptard know what goes on in a Bonus Round?

By his extensive cross-section of one case study?

We have literally had trolls roll accounts to play the Bonus Round. Trolls who play all the way through and then "manufacture" their "outrage" to the point where it is blatantly obvious they are trolling.

How about the winners? Do you ever hear about those? Of course not. Because no one wants to hear about a dozen or more dudes scrambling around looking for isk to payout a client.

No, EvE doesn't thrive on those stories.

ALOD on TMC is a testament to that.

The NC. renter Sov Drop heist is a testament to that.

Grand Theft Carrier (The YT video) is a testament to that.

Goons claiming, "We aren't here to ruin the game, we are here to ruin YOUR game," is a testament to that.

The Guiding Hand heist is a testament to that.

The EvE Bank heist is a testament to that.

These are the damn stories that attract players to EvE, a game universe that has been touted as cruel and unforgiving.

But instead of citing "other" examples, let's have a look at the Bonus Round.

Fact: Permission to record is asked EVERY SINGLE BONUS ROUND.

Fact: Format never changes. Sometimes people add in incentives during the normal format. Period.

Fact: No one holds a gun to the head of a client and says, "You have to play the Bonus Round, or you will die."

Fact: Multiple 100th clients opt out of the Bonus Room, choosing to lose their isk instead, as per bio rules.

Fact: There have been winners. Some in the form of isk. Others have won in far greater ways. One in particular I know of walked away with about 10b within two days of the Bonus Round he played. And agreed with our playstyles. As a carebear.

Fact: You never, ever hear an escrow or Ero be rude, hateful, hurtful, or anything else...to anyone during a Bonus Round.

Fact: The comms on which the Bonus Round is hosted has a strict anti-rascism/anti-homophobic stance, as does the Bonus Round itself.

Fact: The Bonus Round itself is simply an amalgamation of numerous "everyday" EvE traditions. Such as singing. Guess it was equally sociopathic when CCP Gargant was forced to sing to keep his Legion, while leading a new player experience fleet.Roll

And fact: We have had so-called "EvE celebrities" sit in on the bonus round. I won't say who, for their sake, and out of respect, but still. Guess those individuals are to be held accountable because someone else, a so-called "victim," cannot control their composure during a game, amiright?

And how do I know these things as fact?

Because I do not have one, but...

Every.

Single.

Recording.

Made.

So Riptard's base analysis, is exactly that, base analysis. He couldn't take the time to check and see if facts are true, but rather use a fringe example to try and ruin the name of a fellow player.

As a representative of our community.

Last time someone singled out a player for a public audience, and sat on the CSM, he was given the boot.

Just saying.

Fact goes a lot further than conjecture, Rip. And attacking when you do not hold all of the facts, is usually not the wisest move.

Roll

*Side note: As a participant in escrowing Bonus Rounds, I will easily and willingly put myself on trial, hand over all of my recordings, screens, and logs; and wait patiently as you peruse hours of content that was created using your game, played as "evil space pirates," as per the marketing your game has made for itself across a decade.

In return for that show of good faith, I would ask kindly for the betterment of the player base he is elected to represent, that you remove the CSM who resorts to lies and slander to further his own political machinations via hurtful analogies, and incomplete analysis.

Thank you, and as always I appreciate all of the work you do, CCP. Your game is one in a million. A social experiment of grand proportions. I hope you stay true to that vision.



You seem scared.


Volunteering to give all the recordings to CCP?

:SOSCARED:

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1759 - 2014-03-26 03:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rob Kashuken
Tor Norman wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Tor Norman wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Word is CCP is actively investigating the incident.

Permabans for E1 and Co.


Source? Because as far as anyone can tell, no rules have been broken. (Wishful thinking is not a source)


EULA:
Quote:
CCP may take any action it deems appropriate regarding any User Content, if CCP believes, in its sole discretion, that such User Content violates the EULA or may expose CCP, its licensors and/or its suppliers to liability, damage CCP's relationship with any of its suppliers, licensors, ISPs or other users of EVE, harm anyone or harm CCP's reputation or goodwill


Bolded for emphasis

A rule doesn't necessarily have to be broken. And PR media writing about CCP encouraging online bullying would certainly be harmful to CCP's reputation.

Edit: Mucked up quote tags.

So, the appropriate reaction here is to give Ero a warning and amend the rules such that scamming for material benefit (eg ISK) is fine, but scamming for emotional distress (eg, even if you own 100% of a player's possessions, you continue to torment them) isn't allowed.

Not sure how effectively CCP could police such a rule but that seems like a reasonable course of action to me.

Permabans would be a pretty poor decision on CCP's part and that EULA quote does nothing to suggest otherwise.


A player using an account owned by CCP undertakes activities out of game that is creating growing negative PR for CCP. It would be up to CCP whether to issue a permaban or not, however I don't think that would be effective at all.

However, I also would not know how effectively CCP could police that, even if it was specifically written into a possible future EULA.

Edit: amended a stance slightly.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#1760 - 2014-03-26 03:36:51 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:


You seem scared.


Yea i know his type. Thinks people are stupid, easily manipulated, and as long as he believes he can permeate even a modicum of doubt, that he can survive there.

Thriving within the benefit of the doubt.

If he has "every" bonus room round, it's proof he's demented and associates with people like erotica1. Any and all of them need to be purged from EvE's database. If they make the choice to disprespect people, it's only justice if they're disrespected by having their platform removed from under them.