These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Jester Trek Latest Blog

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Gwydion Voleur
Anarchic Exploration
#1441 - 2014-03-26 00:44:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwydion Voleur
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
I don't see how anyone with a straight face can use the words torture, victim, etc in relation to a game that you voluntarily play, where the items and actions aren't real, and you can leave at any time you want. You can block/ignore anyone you want, close down TS any time.


This is post #15 on page 1 of a 72 page threadnought, and should have ended the discussion.

Is this the way I play EvE, or the way 99.9% of everyone else plays? No, thankfully. It's pretty despicable. But it's not actionable, or illegal, or the result of anything but the stupidity and greed of the sad sack on the receiving end. Caveat emptor.

*EDIT* Sorry it's now up to 73 pages, and counting.
Winchester Steele
#1442 - 2014-03-26 00:45:14 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Avio Yaken wrote:
Why are people even siding with this *******? (the scammers)

are people just ignoring that they just went off and did the most **** move imaginable and instead some are saying how the victim should be punished instead




because it seems a third of the player base of eve are sociopaths, and a vocal minority - outright sadists, thats why.....


If I was CCP, I would boot E1 & Co. and pass therir IPs to law enforcement.



Says the guy who has made several RL life violence threats in this this thread. You are not the brightest crayon in the box are you?

...

LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1443 - 2014-03-26 00:45:28 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Finally, some moderation seems to have started.

I sincerely hope the threats of RL violence are removed from this thread now and the people that made them held to account.

.



Why, scared for your hero?

Hes a tough guy, he can take it. he can sure as hell dish it on his victims, cant he?
Snitches Laden
Doomheim
#1444 - 2014-03-26 00:46:03 UTC
Snitches Laden wrote:
Berendas wrote:
I can't believe this thread has surpassed 70 pages. Sohkar was a fool and payed for it, as is EVE's way. The humiliation, or "bullying" as some of you insist on calling it, only came about as a consequence of his own willful actions. Sohkar is the only person at fault, for being unfamiliar with the rules of EVE. Erotica 1 did nothing more than separate the chaff from the wheat.

The number of people who have this nanny-minded view of EVE is simply staggering. Why should a player get banned because his/her actions reached an arbitrarily designated frustration threshold in another player? Should every player that gets on my lossmails be banned if I can muster up a certain degree of anger about it?


"A scam is what happens when someone takes advantage of your misplaced trust, temporary confusion or ignorance of game rules, and robs you via legal in-game means. When this occurs, there is nothing the Support Team can do for you. Although low and despicable, scams do not violate any game mechanics and can not be compensated for by the GMs, nor can the scammers generally be punished for their actions."

This excerpt from the official EVE knowledge base should be the beginning and end of the entire discussion.


I find it interesting how people justify his actions regardless of them being allowed or not by game policy yet these same individuals would have probally acted in the same fashion had this happened to them.

food for thought the the german populous drank the **** koolaid to and look what it got them. just because something is legally okay doesn't make it morally right.


okay for whatever reason ccp censors nazi... so let me say national socialist party
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1445 - 2014-03-26 00:46:39 UTC
CCP can check my active subscriptions just to see this is not a empty threat or someone just splurging on the forums, I will NOT be subscribing more than 2 of my 11 accounts until action on this matter is taken.

Each month that's 9 subscriptions lost in protest

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Feyth Yinleq
Doomheim
#1446 - 2014-03-26 00:46:42 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Bad press for CCP when knowledge of this and the recording proliferates.

Good press for CCP when they take action on it.

Both press, net profit.

Throwing Erotica1 out on his ass is a paltry price to pay for that.
Nobody will question that CCP is utterly within its rights, and sufficiently justified, to do so.
And nobody will miss him anyways.

As is demonstrated in this thread, and in which I have been keeping count of individual posters and their expressed views, the community is overwhelmingly against what he has done as evidenced in the recording.


Any ban for Ero that isn't met with bans for the people who threatened to kill him or otherwise threatened violence will definitely NOT be good press for CCP at all. Ero would be within his rights to compile a list of them and subpoena CCP to get their RL names to press charges against some of them, and the damage that would do to CCP would be significant. Especially if CCP have not taken action over those threats.



Ok, so you're starting to make threats now ? Should I report you to CCP ?
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#1447 - 2014-03-26 00:48:38 UTC
Eve is a game based on the idea that shooting strangers in the face, sociopathic behavior, scamming, destroying other players assets for fun, denying other players enjoyment of the game is a good thing and bad behavior is celebrated as emergent game play!

If you stay in the 'verse long enough you learn to accept that. Some times players seem to loose sight of that game/rl boundary and we see terrible actions like the "Bonus Room" happen. I doubt any mentally healthy person thinks that this indecent was appropriate. The question then comes down to what should we expect CCP to do?

A strong case can be made its deliberately a game that encourages shite behavior and a non-trivial part of the player base are here because of that. So some might say "nothing to see here, move along".

The other case however looks at this long term, is it in CCP's best interest to continue to let Eve develop that "Eve is the game for serious asshats" reputation? I actually think that is the danger for CCP. Showing that there is some line CCP agrees should not be crossed on occasion could go a long ways to not letting the common perception of Eve is that only sociopaths play.

If I was CCP I'd see there is no down side to kicking the perps to the curb. The player base will quickly loose interest and it is a good PR move. There are plenty of other sociopaths to take up the slack with new asshat ideas, so new emergent game play for all!

CCP, flush these asshats so we can have a whole new set!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1448 - 2014-03-26 00:48:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Silvara Nocturn wrote:

This entire thread is arguing semantics and bad analogies and should be nuked.


It should.


Not sure if it's still alive because Falcon got in on the ground floor, or because if they really went and nuked it they'd need to discipline Ripard Teg for this topic in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jim Era
#1449 - 2014-03-26 00:49:04 UTC
I send all of my wat™ to this thread.

Wat™
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1450 - 2014-03-26 00:49:09 UTC
Heh, I will be laughing all the way to the cancellation page if CCP hands out warnings to normal people instead of E1.

They would deserve each other lol.
Bloodmyst Ranwar
Menace of Morons
#1451 - 2014-03-26 00:49:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodmyst Ranwar
Well, one last thread post for me.

I can 110% guarantee that bullying isn't tolerated within CCP's work environement. Why should they allow Bullying in relation to the game in which they have developed?

To use an anology;

There is a difference between "premeditated assault" and "provoked assault." I encourage anyone here to research the differences and look at scenarios where this has taken place in todays society. Then look at how they have been dealt with on a case by case basis.

After that, come back here and try to argue why you think Erotica's behavior should be acceptable.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1452 - 2014-03-26 00:50:15 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Finally, some moderation seems to have started.

I sincerely hope the threats of RL violence are removed from this thread now and the people that made them held to account.

.



Why, scared for your hero?

Hes a tough guy, he can take it. he can sure as hell dish it on his victims, cant he?


Actually I've never heard him say a bad word about anyone. He is always repectful and polite even in the face of racism and threats of violence.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1453 - 2014-03-26 00:50:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

3) Any judge/jury will recognise that Sohkars outbursts are a result of duress, piled with harassment, humiliating and degrading demands.



I would hate to be trying to explain to a cop, one who deals with real scumbags and has probably also been in war, why I was pressing charges (after ridiculing someone on the internet for several hours).

I can see the crew-cut battle hardened (and probably violent and dealing with PTSD) cop squinting at E1 and saying "so you feel threated by who? What? What are you talking about?"

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Winchester Steele
#1454 - 2014-03-26 00:50:38 UTC
Avio Yaken wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Avio Yaken wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Avio Yaken wrote:
instead some are saying how the victim should be punished instead


You don't think people should be punished for making RL death threats?


you do realize people make death threats in games every day right?


I do realise this. In fact, I've had more than one directed at me for perfectly acceptable things, like ganking and bumping. You didn't answer my question, however.


Im saying not his fault completely for that comment, he most likely didn't mean what he said, but i do disagree with wanting someone dead

but again, not entirely his fault, more so its the scammer's fault for pushing him, which provoked that out burst, yet here you are saying the Victim should be punished



LOL. Your honour, it's not my fault that I killed and disemboweled that family. You see, I was in Erotica1's bonus room the other day and . . .

...

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1455 - 2014-03-26 00:50:58 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
CCP can check my active subscriptions just to see this is not a empty threat or someone just splurging on the forums, I will NOT be subscribing more than 2 of my 11 accounts until action on this matter is taken.

Each month that's 9 subscriptions lost in protest


Ah, the good old "I will unsub my numerous accounts!" statement from someone posting in an NPC corp.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, I don't want ass prints on the door.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Snitches Laden
Doomheim
#1456 - 2014-03-26 00:51:06 UTC
fudface wrote:
+1 for jester for trying but i dont think it will change anything. The crucial thing with this is the victim is a willing participant.

Personally i think its total madness to give all your stuff over to another player you dont know and trust regardless of the reason.

i only managed to listen to around 8 minutes before i was shaking my head and thinking no one is THAT blind to the obvious,

i know gamblers who cant help chasing their losses until they are totally broke. its human stupidity and greed that is being exploited here.

i mean come on, if it looks like easy money then you are the one creating the easy money.

my 1 isk worth.



if a woman goes to a club gets drunk and raped is she a willing participant because she was naieve to her surroundings?
Feyth Yinleq
Doomheim
#1457 - 2014-03-26 00:51:08 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Avio Yaken wrote:
Why are people even siding with this *******? (the scammers)

are people just ignoring that they just went off and did the most **** move imaginable and instead some are saying how the victim should be punished instead




because it seems a third of the player base of eve are sociopaths, and a vocal minority - outright sadists, thats why.....


If I was CCP, I would boot E1 & Co. and pass therir IPs to law enforcement.



Says the guy who has made several RL life violence threats in this this thread. You are not the brightest crayon in the box are you?


Says the guy who laughed, had his wife and children laugh at a poor guy being humiliated by a sociopath. Not brilliant yourself, are you ?
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#1458 - 2014-03-26 00:51:26 UTC
Hmmm, I got spanked by CCP for creating a new thread to post this, and in retrospect I should have just used this original thread :) Here's some thoughts on today's hot topic!

So, I am a pretty avid Eve player, and have been for quite some time. My girlfriend is not a player, but we talk a whole bunch and she does enjoy hearing stories about our little universe we have here, and today we were talking about the recent forum activity and SoundCloud recording of Erotica1 doing what he does best.

Now, before this entire conversation took place - I really was on the "This is our sandbox, I don't want CCP wasting any time adding systems to the game that limit what we as players can do." To be honest, I still am.

But, after this whole conversation: there's a part that I don't agree with - and my mind has been changed on this. In this situation: Erotica1 engaged in scamming someone out of a bunch of internet spaceships and e-gold or whatever we call it. I'm fine with that. The only part that I find fault with is baiting the player into taking his tasteless RL threats (I'll kill your mother, racist slurs, homophobic slurs) from a private Teamspeak server into game, thus resulting in the person being scammed being able to be subjected to action by CCP).

The "victim" was wrong to take things that far, and to make real life threats: but we have to really understand a bit about human nature here. Erotica1 and pirates all over (myself included!) will tell you how vital it is to have a thick skin, but I think we need to lead by example and have the same think skin - some of these noobies we blow up or scam are not really the Eve type, and they have yet to learn to control the part of their brain that should stop with "Good fight." or "lol gf" into the kind of epic screaming table pounding mom-threatening stuff we heard in the recent soundcloud recording. When I personally encounter this kind of behavior, my old reaction was to automatically report them to CCP for EULA violations. I won't be doing that anymore - I am going to HTFU and understand that for less experienced players, human nature is going to take over sometimes and they are going to say and do things that are really silly and over and top.

On a side note - I am proud to be part of this universe today. Any online game that sparks a wonderful 2 hour discussion between adults about morality, human nature, griefing and bullying is the kind of game that I want to be playing.
Pix Severus
Empty You
#1459 - 2014-03-26 00:52:59 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Finally, some moderation seems to have started.

I sincerely hope the threats of RL violence are removed from this thread now and the people that made them held to account.

.



Why, scared for your hero?

Hes a tough guy, he can take it. he can sure as hell dish it on his victims, cant he?


Not once did Erotica threaten physical violence against his client.

The only ones threatening violence so far have been those on the witch hunt.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1460 - 2014-03-26 00:52:59 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

3) Any judge/jury will recognise that Sohkars outbursts are a result of duress, piled with harassment, humiliating and degrading demands.



I would hate to be trying to explain to a cop, one who deals with real scumbags and has probably also been in war, why I was pressing charges (after ridiculing someone on the internet for several hours).

I can see the crew-cut battle hardened (and probably violent and dealing with PTSD) cop squinting at E1 and saying "so you feel threated by who? What? What are you talking about?"




Nobody will be explaining anything to anyone.

Its just E1 and 10 alts/sycophants against the world. its rolling towards permabans. This only has one outcome now. If there even a slightest chance of media picking up on this story, they cant afford NOT to ban this scum.

End of story.