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Kirsi Kirjasto
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#1261 - 2014-03-25 23:19:53 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
And, now, having read the actual blog....did he just call Erotica 1 EVIL?

I'm quite convinced that Ripard is the intolerable sort that whines to the coach when he gets hazed by his team-members in the men's locker room.

Of course this is theoretical.
Because it would require Ripard actually setting foot in a men's locker room for something other than pilates or yoga.
You know, something that doesn't require stretchy see-through pants.


This.
Did Buck Futz really get a forum ban over this jibe?
Seriously?

He's such a cool guy.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1262 - 2014-03-25 23:20:40 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Kadl wrote:
If this or any similar acts becomes a major news story CCP is going to have problems. The headline "Cyberbullying in EVE" will create unwanted attention. As a business, CCP should consider the situation and act so as to protect their profits and the game.

Personally I would like to see more sportsmanship in EVE. I think that would be a good use of CCP's efforts.



Already sent the tip to CNN, BBC, Guardian, and couple of other news sites I read. Someone is bound to pick this up.

Spread the word! Force CCP to act!


Coming from a person that has made two threats of RL violence against Ero?

You are aware that in the UK (where you seem to be) making threats of physical violence against someone is a criminal offense, right?



My bet is that when ISDs get around to 'cleaning' this thread, several of them will quit and say screw it.

In other news, multiple job openings available for ISDs apply within.
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#1263 - 2014-03-25 23:20:48 UTC
Snupe Doggur wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Already sent the tip to CNN, BBC, Guardian, and couple of other news sites I read. Someone is bound to pick this up.

Spread the word! Force CCP to act!
Forcing CCP to act is a worthy goal, but I am more interested in quality than in speed. A quick banhammer will only fuel the apologists and rules lawyers who always demand to know exactly where a line is drawn. Just get it right, CCP, and protect yourselves from the association--whether or not you desire a particular outcome for this situation.


I think you get it.

It's not about slamming a ban on anyone. It's more about saying "Not comfortable with this - tone it down" - it reflects on their product.

After that - up to CCP. I stated before that I didn't think Erotica1 should be banned. It's up to CCP to define the line that can be crossed. Whether this is it is for them to choose. For me it crossed that line. Not my bag to make that decision/

Aaaaaaand relax.
Marie Trudeau
Trudeau Industrie SA
#1264 - 2014-03-25 23:21:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Marie Trudeau wrote:
Bad behavior all around, but nothing actionable.

Y

I also find the racism and threats from the victim to be as troubling, if not more troubling, than the scammer's sadism. Yes, people say things when they are at a breaking point, but it doesn't excuse the blatant racism in the least.
.


I don't find that the most troubling thing here. What I do find troubling is that a group iof people finds it funny to incite somebody so hard that they lose it and resort to that kind of language.

Surely you must be reasonable enough to recognise when someone has been baited so hard that they lose their temper and say things that they regret.


I had several people send me death threats for over a week when we ran the mining interdictions. There is never an excuse for unironic racism or death threats over a game.


My perspective as well. Any person who is not deeply involved in EVE (i.e., the average person in the street) would likely have far more of an issue with the racial epithets and death threats than they would with what Erotic did in that TS session.

As I said in my post, I don't condone what Erotica did, but it's a part of EVE. The racist language, however, is something that crosses a RL line -- and would be seen by non-gamer observers that way as well, I think.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1265 - 2014-03-25 23:21:23 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:



Doesn't matter whose side they take. What matters is they will say EVE allows and tolerates this kind of thing - and thats a BIG negative for CCP right there. It might attract a few dozen sadists to the game, but it will turn off a lot more normal guys.

The idea is for CCP to be forced into preventative measures - such as, I dont know, booting E1, his alts, his friends? That would be appropriate. Better then high school justice at fanfest, and probably more effective then cancelling subscriptions by regular people.


In that case then this victim should be banned for the racist insults and death threats. They would also have to ban everyone else who has ransomed a song out of people including the people who ransomed a CCP dev to do such a thing.
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1266 - 2014-03-25 23:21:51 UTC
Xander Delacroix wrote:
RAAAAAAAAAAAWRRRR two hours of systematic psychological and emotional abuse



...

Sing me 3 songs?
No I won't sing your ******* racialslur/gay bashing comments songs
Ok, how about 2?
= two hours of systematic psychological and emotional abuse

I think you all need to Nut up.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#1267 - 2014-03-25 23:22:15 UTC
handige harrie wrote:
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:
handige harrie wrote:

Except all his hours of work also dissapear with that click, while they keep up appearances that he can get it back if he continues in the masquarade. (which is obviously not the case, but at this point he is to emotionally involved to quit)


Heres another weird thing, we all know Erotica 1 is a scammer right? But there is also the possibility that he might pay out once in awhile.
Now, listening to the recording, the dude was asked to do some things to "win", he didnt do it, he was told not to get offensive, we all know how that went. NONE OF US, except for Erotica 1, knows what would have happened if this person actually did what was said.
So to all of you who said claim that he was "tortured" for nothing, you absolutely cannot prove that he couldnt possibly have gotten his stuff back if he had actually sung the 2 songs (or however many it was)


Calling it 'torture' is bs, it's a bad choice of words as a torture victim is scarred physically or emotionally for the rest of his/her (sometimes neither) life from the events that transpired during the 'sessions' or afraid to lose his life or will to life at that moment.

The opposite is also true, how could the victim trust Erotica and Co. that he would win or lose all his stuff when, while he did not sing, Erotica and Co. they did continue to push him to go further, breaking their own 'rules'.


Its Erotica 1s game right? He makes his own rules, obviously, thats how his game works. Play by the rules, that seem to be made on the fly, or lose, the guy decided to, at the end, flip and quit entirely, not even trying.
Salvos Rhoska
#1268 - 2014-03-25 23:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Scamming inside EVE is fine.

Scamming OUTSIDE EVE is a whole other can of worms, including various felony charges.

Erotica1's ingame activities are legit.
His out of game extension of activities from those are extremely illegal.

1) Erotica1 is sourcing his victims from CCP's EVE player base and community.
All of whom are protected unilaterally by the EULA specifically from this kind of predation.

2) He is coercing them into his OUT OF GAME "Bonus Room" as an extension of his ingame "Isk Doubling" racket.
That is how he finds and selects his victims.

3) He is using the players assets, which are actually CCPs assets, which he has legitimately gained ingame, by ILLEGITIMATELY "promising" to return of them to the person if he joins Erotica1 and the other sadists in his OUT OF THE GAME "Bonus Room" and there perform to their humiliating, degrading and griefing demands.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Winchester Steele
#1269 - 2014-03-25 23:23:41 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i'm 100% sure that kicking some one in the face, is not legal. it's assault.

Laughing and applauding it is not illegal.

Which is what I said.

Reading is HAAARRD.

I would laugh and applaud if someone booted him in the face.
I would laugh and applaud if he is banned from the game.

Sorry if that upsets you.

Perhaps you prefer the company of those who laugh at the suffering of Sohkar and his wife in the recording?



I'd prefer their company to someone who would laugh at a person getting physically assaulted over a video game yes.

...

Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
#1270 - 2014-03-25 23:23:45 UTC
I now suddenly have an urge to see Walking In Stations fully implemented. Can't hunt him if he's docked up in Jita 4-4.

Yet.

Glory

Faded Light is recruiting
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#1271 - 2014-03-25 23:23:48 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
If I ran a bar and one of my patrons was well behaved in the bar but misbehaved outside it after drinking in it and someone complained to me I'd point out that if he is causing trouble to call the police. I will watch his behaviour when he's inside the bar andif the police want to ban him from drinking in the bar then that's fine to. They have a job to do and so do I.

Are you serious? O.o
Bloodmyst Ranwar
Menace of Morons
#1272 - 2014-03-25 23:23:59 UTC
As harsh as it may sound, scamming is a part of Eve.

However, the major problem I have is where they make fun of his speech impediment. There is no acceptable excuse CCP can give, that should allow this behavior.

This is bullying.

CCP should not tolerate this, and I'm quiet disappointed the permanent bans haven't already been handed out.
paritybit
Solarmark
#1273 - 2014-03-25 23:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: paritybit
Gogela wrote:
In order to take a "stand" you would have to make a "rule." It would be a new rule, I think, in this case. Yes, the devs make these rules. The line in this case, however, is REALLY blurry. While I would argue the victim in this case was psychologically traumatized long before he ever started playing eve, let's for the sake of argument, assume that his response could be considered "normal". How do you pen such a rule? EvE is really hard. It's harsh. You are going to get angry at some point... typically starting out. Does a ganker cause psychological trauma? Does running an alliance and losing it through one means or another cause it? Could mittens be banned for the way he took out BoB, having caused such widespread discontent? Do people running virtually undetectable margin scams cause it? Contract scams? PLEX scams? Does Hulkageddon get you down? An extreme reaction by an individual does not necessitate extreme legislation. At some point you need to be a big boy and handle your s***. This is sensational purely due to the victim's reaction. Far worse things happen to people every day in EvE. I should know. I ganked a guy w/ 4 bill in his hauler a few weeks ago. His response? "Enjoy the nothing that dropped ******!' We both lost that day. My victim handles his smack. He's not a fan of mine, but he didn't let it get to him. Why would he? It's a game. Let's not lose the forest for the trees on this one, I say.


In EVE is one thing. Take my isk. Take my stuff. Warp scramble my capsule. There's no line there -- it's all pretty clearly within the realm of the game. But to say, "It's okay, this is a process ... we'll give it all back if you just do us this one little thing," and then adding task upon task while recording it (without the other party's knowledge) and then publicly posting it all the while talking about how stupid he was -- well some point before we got to here there was a line crossed.

Taking or destroying something in-game is entirely different from squashing a person's dignity regardless of whether the victim was "willing" or not.
Anslo
Scope Works
#1274 - 2014-03-25 23:26:01 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:
I now suddenly have an urge to see Walking In Stations fully implemented. Can't hunt him if he's docked up in Jita 4-4.

Yet.


My God where have you been?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#1275 - 2014-03-25 23:26:17 UTC
I also still cant comprehend that people think CCP should be listening to everything I say on teamspeak whenever I play EVE, it makes no sense and should not be used as an argument.

Or maybe I just like having the freedom to say whatever I want on teamspeak without having CCP listen and punish me according to their liking.
While we're at it, maybe have a small microphone placed inside my skull so CCP can hear everything I say during the day?
If any of it seems slightly disturbing to them they can ban my account on those grounds, I sure hope I dont talk bad in my sleep though!
Feyth Yinleq
Doomheim
#1276 - 2014-03-25 23:26:18 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:
Actually, the REALLY scary bit?

That Sohkar is supposedly a FRIGGEN Air Traffic Controller.
I will express myself in Chinese.

Ho Lee Fuk.

Seriously, I think CCP, having his 'real life' information - should report Sohkar to the proper authorities.

Somebody this obviously unstable and insane should NOT be directing aircraft in ANY capacity.

Erotica 1 actually did us a great service by exposing a clear and present risk to public safety.

Would YOU feel comfortable landing at a busy airport staffed by someone like Sohkar?





guess now we know what happened to that malaysian aircraft.


I must admit this one is funny, thanks ;-)
Dave Stark
#1277 - 2014-03-25 23:26:18 UTC
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:
As harsh as it may sound, scamming is a part of Eve.

However, the major problem I have is where they make fun of his speech impediment. There is no acceptable excuse CCP can give, that should allow this behavior.

This is bullying.

CCP should not tolerate this, and I'm quiet disappointed the permanent bans haven't already been handed out.


indeed, it's upsetting that racists are allowed to play this game unchecked.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1278 - 2014-03-25 23:27:51 UTC
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:
As harsh as it may sound, scamming is a part of Eve.

However, the major problem I have is where they make fun of his speech impediment. There is no acceptable excuse CCP can give, that should allow this behavior.

This is bullying.

CCP should not tolerate this, and I'm quiet disappointed the permanent bans haven't already been handed out.

You don't get a perma ban for making fun of someone's speech impediment (though doing so is in bad taste).
You do get a perma ban for racist remarks.
You do get a perma ban for RL threats.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#1279 - 2014-03-25 23:28:19 UTC
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:
As harsh as it may sound, scamming is a part of Eve.

However, the major problem I have is where they make fun of his speech impediment. There is no acceptable excuse CCP can give, that should allow this behavior.

This is bullying.

CCP should not tolerate this, and I'm quiet disappointed the permanent bans haven't already been handed out.


Permabans for saying something mean? I don't condone taking the mick out of the way someone speaks (unless you're Welsh), nor do I do it (unless you're Welsh), but people like you are the reason a fat guy can get arrested for telling a joke about fat people in England.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Dr Grant
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1280 - 2014-03-25 23:28:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Grant
I listened to the whole thing, and i must say from my point of view there are only looser.

The guy who got scammed obviously got some personal problems if he gets worked up that bad about a video game. An adult should not behave like that. I mean he was obviously taunted, but - still - it is a video game and an adult should not loose perspective like that.

That being said - precisely BECAUSE it was so obvious that that was not a person who behaves rationally (and maybe is pissed for a few minutes), the guys who did the taunting should have abandoned their prank. Not exactly adult behavior there either. Just because a certain behavior (scamming and taunting people in eve) is harmless in most cases doesn't mean it is in all cases.

Once the wife got involved it was crystal clear that the situation was emotionally unstable and dangerous. Any responsible human being would have tried to do the right thing. I am perfectly happy with the scamming and "no hand holding" approach of EvE, but at that point i would have given the dude his ISK back. Because at that point it wasn't really about Eve anymore. Continuing to destabilize the situation at that point is a sign of emotional immaturity or sadism.

I am all for CCP banning these people. Not because i want Eve to be a kindergarten but because i want it to stay this way. If these people are allowed to misrepresent Eve as something it really is not (i assume most people playing eve are decent people) we are all off for the worse and at some point CCP might be forced to make it into actual WOW kindergarden. And since CCP probably has an EULA that allows them to ban people for "whatever" i do not see a problem here.