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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#1181 - 2014-03-25 22:54:23 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
This seems to come down to the fact that people are thinking Ero is doing this with malice. that observation is for everyone to make.


At the point the recording begins, Erotica1 already has the entirety of the victims assets.

The sole and only purpose of the subsequent entire 2hrs torment, is to humiliate and grief the victim.
That is malice.



You do not understand Ero's business model, which is to NEVER be caught in a provable lie. EVER.

Had Ero left at 2 minutes in, he'd have been caught in a provable lie. Yes he'd have had the assets from this bonus room, but his credibility would take a big hit.




Seriously though, I have seen a fair amount of conduct I'd call cyberbullying or outright threats of violence on threads like this. None of them carried out by Ero, or anyone that supports Ero. I've reported two threats of RL violence (one veiled and borderline, one worse) on another thread to the ISDs already and I do not report posts lightly. I've also suggested to Ero to withdraw his CSM nomination for his own safety and that of any family he may have. That I have to give that advice is a disgrace.

I'm not going to go into the conduct of the person who lost the bonus room, because that's not an issue unless Ero chooses to complain about it, and as far as I can tell he has not done so.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Snupe Doggur
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1182 - 2014-03-25 22:54:29 UTC
Anslo wrote:
...Steele, be straight with me on this; while the caller really went too far with the threats, don't you think Ero has become skilled in picking out who is most likely to go off the deep end and then push them off it by whatever means for entertainment?
That's why they call it cyberbullying. The victim was selected precisely for the quality of being unable to resist the bait, and for hoping to undo the transfer of assets later.

Cyberbullies stalk very deliberately.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#1183 - 2014-03-25 22:54:33 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Mag's wrote:
In the area I live in (Robin Hood land) we hear such colloquialisms as 'ayup me duck' and 'nowt wrong we that'


Dave Stark wrote:
personally, i have a brummie accent.


Bloody northerners. P


i'm not northern, it's the midlands for a reason.


That's what I said - up north. :P

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1184 - 2014-03-25 22:54:44 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Its pretty clear what has to be done really.

sadists only understand pain, and they forfeit protections of society by abusing others.

In my high school, this sort of thing was deal with like this: guy would be found, cornered, and beaten to a pulp to tech him a lesson in manners. I did this a couple of times to bullies back in the day. It works.

If it has to devolve to high school level, If CCP wont step in and curb this **** like adults, I will not condemn whomever metes out street justice.

Simple as that.



Oh yeah. Advocating real life violence over **** in a video game. You are a gentleman AND a scholar. Roll


YOU and those like you are the cancer killing the gaming community.


**** that. When dealing with bullying, gloves come off. And i dont care.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#1185 - 2014-03-25 22:54:59 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
british accent.

any other questions you need answering?



YEah. Whats a British accent sound like?

Is it like an English Welsh Scots or Northern Irish one?

And which part of those places does it sound most like the accent of? Blink
In the area I live in (Robin Hood land) we hear such colloquialisms as 'ayup me duck' and 'nowt wrong we that'


That sounds just like my sainted mothers Newfie 'English'. I grew up with her and still didn't have a clue what she was saying half the time.

Mr Epeen Cool
Annie Anomie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1186 - 2014-03-25 22:55:00 UTC
Boy did this thread escalate quickly.

It's a computer game.

For the record, I think this raises some uncomfortable questions about how players treat players outside of the game.

I think CCP need to have a think about how they want EVE players treating other EVE players out of game.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1187 - 2014-03-25 22:55:29 UTC
Xander Delacroix wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It is if you are laughing and applauding at someone being attacked on the street.

If its someone who I know has spent 2hrs tormenting a victim and his wife to the point of breaking, for no other reason than to sadistically enjoy their suffering and to share their recording of it with "friends", yes, I will absolutely laugh and applaud.


Salvos, you're really not helping yourself here...

Mags, Baltec, Dave, Jenn et al: Stop the broken record already! We know that the victim used some bad words and slurs when, after two hours of torment, he finally snapped (losing his composure, temper and possible a few marbles). Does that make his use of said words excusable? No. Does it make his stream of invective understandable? Yes. Let's move on shall we?

The words the victim used, or the threats, empty or otherwise, made towards E1 were made after 2 hours of systematic psychological and emotional abuse. Yes, they were bad words. We get it. Really.


No you don't get it, and generally speaking, people who haven't been the target of racism don't get it either.

The 'victim' CHOOSE to spew threats and racial hatred over the internet rather than click on an X and end his involvement/"torture" in the bonus room. That choice right there is many times more reprehensible than anything Erotica1 has done in the entire time he/she has played EVE, period.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#1188 - 2014-03-25 22:55:30 UTC
Snupe Doggur wrote:
Cyberbullies stalk very deliberately.


Wait, this racist dude who makes RL threats was stalked prior to being greedy? You have some evidence to back this up?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1189 - 2014-03-25 22:55:32 UTC
Throughout history the strong survive and if EVE bans Erotica then they need to ban us all.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#1190 - 2014-03-25 22:55:32 UTC
paritybit wrote:
Just posting to say that there's a line here. It's terribly blurry, but it's there. Nobody is going to be able to clearly define it. But nobody really needs to. It makes sense to me that CCP own the game; they own all the ones and zeros that make up New Eden and story the history of every pilot to have ever flown there. If they wanted to strip the privilege of being a part of this from someone, I think they have the right.

Now I just have to figure out how to impart my opinion that the line has been crossed here and Erotica 1 and friends are on the wrong side of it. Maybe typing this is enough; it probably isn't.

EVE is amazing in the way it provides countless ways for players to punish other players -- when they don't necessarily deserve any punishment at all. But, when it comes to a way to punish players who are completely deserving but know how to protect themselves (alts that never leave a station or that leave a station only in a disposable ship with the expectation of being blown up) there is very little recourse. This one is not and can not be in the hands of the players.

Once you go from scamming a player of all in-game assets and move on to crushing his dignity you've gone too far. Somewhere between those two points is the line. Please make a stand somewhere CCP.

In order to take a "stand" you would have to make a "rule." It would be a new rule, I think, in this case. Yes, the devs make these rules. The line in this case, however, is REALLY blurry. While I would argue the victim in this case was psychologically traumatized long before he ever started playing eve, let's for the sake of argument, assume that his response could be considered "normal". How do you pen such a rule? EvE is really hard. It's harsh. You are going to get angry at some point... typically starting out. Does a ganker cause psychological trauma? Does running an alliance and losing it through one means or another cause it? Could mittens be banned for the way he took out BoB, having caused such widespread discontent? Do people running virtually undetectable margin scams cause it? Contract scams? PLEX scams? Does Hulkageddon get you down? An extreme reaction by an individual does not necessitate extreme legislation. At some point you need to be a big boy and handle your s***. This is sensational purely due to the victim's reaction. Far worse things happen to people every day in EvE. I should know. I ganked a guy w/ 4 bill in his hauler a few weeks ago. His response? "Enjoy the nothing that dropped ******!' We both lost that day. My victim handles his smack. He's not a fan of mine, but he didn't let it get to him. Why would he? It's a game. Let's not lose the forest for the trees on this one, I say.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Dave Stark
#1191 - 2014-03-25 22:55:35 UTC
handige harrie wrote:
Except all his hours of work also dissapear with that click, while they keep up appearances that he can get it back if he continues in the masquarade.


it was 1bn isk, it was 8 hours of in game grinding, or about an hour or less of overtime at work.

as far as scams go, this was about as newsworthy as "man goes to work on monday morning".

as far as lessons go in eve, this was a relatively cheap and quick one. i've lost more isk and taken more time to learn things about eve than this guy lost and learned in 1 bonus room.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1192 - 2014-03-25 22:55:50 UTC
As much as I find some of Ero's out of game activities distasteful, let's be clear about what actually happened in those recordings:

Ero leveraged the particularly strong greed of a racist to make him jump through a series of hoops. At the end of the exercise, the racist made a series of remarks (including RL threats) which would be grounds for an immediate perma ban in Eve.

If you purport that "what happens in TS happens in Eve," then the victim, not the scammer, will be the one to get an immediate perma ban in this case.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1193 - 2014-03-25 22:56:04 UTC
Xander Delacroix wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It is if you are laughing and applauding at someone being attacked on the street.

If its someone who I know has spent 2hrs tormenting a victim and his wife to the point of breaking, for no other reason than to sadistically enjoy their suffering and to share their recording of it with "friends", yes, I will absolutely laugh and applaud.


Salvos, you're really not helping yourself here...

Mags, Baltec, Dave, Jenn et al: Stop the broken record already! We know that the victim used some bad words and slurs when, after two hours of torment, he finally snapped (losing his composure, temper and possible a few marbles). Does that make his use of said words excusable? No. Does it make his stream of invective understandable? Yes. Let's move on shall we?

The words the victim used, or the threats, empty or otherwise, made towards E1 were made after 2 hours of systematic psychological and emotional abuse. Yes, they were bad words. We get it. Really.


You honestly think that this is psychological and emotional abuse? You have lead a sheltered life, I have revived much worse for much longer from miners. To be honest, what I heard was more or less your average song ransom which was extended by the "victim". 30 min was just him unloading as many insults as he could think of.
Dave Stark
#1194 - 2014-03-25 22:56:32 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Mag's wrote:
In the area I live in (Robin Hood land) we hear such colloquialisms as 'ayup me duck' and 'nowt wrong we that'


Dave Stark wrote:
personally, i have a brummie accent.


Bloody northerners. P


i'm not northern, it's the midlands for a reason.


That's what I said - up north. :P


i lived on the south coast for 4 years if that counts?
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#1195 - 2014-03-25 22:56:39 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
This seems to come down to the fact that people are thinking Ero is doing this with malice. that observation is for everyone to make.


At the point the recording begins, Erotica1 already has the entirety of the victims assets.

The sole and only purpose of the subsequent entire 2hrs torment, is to humiliate and grief the victim.
That is malice.


Maybe he intends to to quad it, that isn't your call to make.

Your opinion is exactly that. An opinion.

Nothing more.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#1196 - 2014-03-25 22:57:08 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
Except all his hours of work also dissapear with that click, while they keep up appearances that he can get it back if he continues in the masquarade.


it was 1bn isk, it was 8 hours of in game grinding, or about an hour or less of overtime at work.

as far as scams go, this was about as newsworthy as "man goes to work on monday morning".

as far as lessons go in eve, this was a relatively cheap and quick one. i've lost more isk and taken more time to learn things about eve than this guy lost and learned in 1 bonus room.


I amended the post while you were replying :(

Baddest poster ever
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1197 - 2014-03-25 22:57:12 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

i dont care.


Yeah. You are probably the worst person in here.

Deeply unpleasant.

And yeah you dont care.

I dont care if you dont care.

You are a disgusting bully.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Winchester Steele
#1198 - 2014-03-25 22:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Winchester Steele
baltec1 wrote:
Snupe Doggur wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Hands up everyone who can see a problem with demanding the CCP ban people on the basis of "They haven't broken any game rules, and they haven't broken any laws, but I find them personally distasteful"
Hands up anyone who missed the point of "Isn't that the game where...?"

Well, CCP is officially aware of the incident upthread. Let's see what they choose to do about it before someone dies.


I would like to slap you with a fish for that one.




Careful. The space lawyers will haveyou strung up by your 'nads in the Space Hague for those kinds of comments.

...

Xander Delacroix
Doomheim
#1199 - 2014-03-25 22:57:36 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Xander Delacroix wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It is if you are laughing and applauding at someone being attacked on the street.

If its someone who I know has spent 2hrs tormenting a victim and his wife to the point of breaking, for no other reason than to sadistically enjoy their suffering and to share their recording of it with "friends", yes, I will absolutely laugh and applaud.


Salvos, you're really not helping yourself here...

Mags, Baltec, Dave, Jenn et al: Stop the broken record already! We know that the victim used some bad words and slurs when, after two hours of torment, he finally snapped (losing his composure, temper and possible a few marbles). Does that make his use of said words excusable? No. Does it make his stream of invective understandable? Yes. Let's move on shall we?

The words the victim used, or the threats, empty or otherwise, made towards E1 were made after 2 hours of systematic psychological and emotional abuse. Yes, they were bad words. We get it. Really.


then stop pretending that erotica is the biggest monster in the story when he did very little in comparison.


"Very little in comparison"?! You seriously just said that? Did you miss the part about the two hours of systematic psychological and emotional abuse? Oh yes, of course you did.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#1200 - 2014-03-25 22:57:50 UTC
And that's the THIRD real life threat of violence I've reported today, all from the people accusing Ero of cyberbullying. This one at the milder end but still far more out of line than anything Ero did.

If I wasn't busy at work today I'd probably find a dozen more.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com