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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#1141 - 2014-03-25 22:41:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
This seems to come down to the fact that people are thinking Ero is doing this with malice. that observation is for everyone to make.


At the point the recording begins, Erotica1 already has the entirety of the victims assets.

The sole and only purpose of the subsequent entire 2hrs torment, is to humiliate and grief the victim.
That is malice.


Wrong.

It has been a long standing thing to get people to sing and record them.


Hmm...I seem to remember someone making a CCP employee sing recently... Was that person banned for that malicious act?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1142 - 2014-03-25 22:41:23 UTC
Electric M0nk wrote:
The audio recording is horrible. I challenge anyone who finds this behavior acceptable to play the recording to your mom, or your wife, and then proudly say to that person, "I support this behavior."

CCP has provided Erotica1 with a soapbox, that soapbox needs to be removed. I leave the 'how' to CCP.



Whats with the sexism? Riptard did the same thing. I don't get it.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Salvos Rhoska
#1143 - 2014-03-25 22:41:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
It is if you are laughing and applauding at someone being attacked on the street.

If its someone who I know has spent 2hrs tormenting a victim and his wife to the point of breaking, for no other reason than to sadistically enjoy their suffering and to share their recording of it with "friends", yes, I will absolutely laugh and applaud.
Dave Stark
#1144 - 2014-03-25 22:42:29 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
arabella blood wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

i'm not defending ero at all,


Said the guy who used (and probably still) to sit in the "bonus room" right there with E1.


still ass hurt about reading half of something i typed in the lounge, then blocking me before i finished my sentence i see.

good for you arabella.


So you are not part of it? were not sitting in this room from the "scamming" side?


was i in the bonus room linked in ripard's blog?
no.

have i been in a bonus room?
yes, but not many.

have i been in a bonus room for the full duration?
no.

have i actively participated in a bonus room and goaded contestants?
no, i don't speak on teamspeak. believe it or not, i'm very shy on voice comms. too many americans to be comfortable with my british accent.

any other questions you need answering?
Electric M0nk
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1145 - 2014-03-25 22:42:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Electric M0nk wrote:
The audio recording is horrible. I challenge anyone who finds this behavior acceptable to play the recording to your mom, or your wife, and then proudly say to that person, "I support this behavior."

CCP has provided Erotica1 with a soapbox, that soapbox needs to be removed. I leave the 'how' to CCP.

So what about the RL death threats and racism?


In my experience, the people who don't get upset at a blatant display of hatred (like that guy's rascist name calling of someone who self identified as Afro-Canadian) tend to do so because they share a certain point of view with the speaker. Just saying.


You can assume away, but you are incorrect.
However, his rant was not done in a vacuum.
But I will conceded that the player should apologize for his verbal retaliation after enduring almost 2 hours of nonstop harassment.

I believe for you.

handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#1146 - 2014-03-25 22:43:09 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
In these recordings, Erotica and Co. is the one doing the kicking. You are however still allowed to laugh.


if that's the case then is the "victim" stabbing erotica since his part in all of this is worse than ero's.
ero's part is very tame in comparison to the tirade of racial slurs and real life threats from the guy that hypothetically got kicked in the face.


Behaviours envokes reaction. Be bad (or good) to someone and you can expect a reaction which is often not thought out in the 'heat of the moment'. Although I agree he choice of words is rather awkward. But it sounds like a 'fight or flight' reaction after the realisation he got himself in a huge mess ingame as well as out of game, I don't think he gave the value of his words the same amount of thought as Erotica and Co did to their own words, when they came up with the idea on how to push people over the edge.

Baddest poster ever

Mag's
Azn Empire
#1147 - 2014-03-25 22:43:41 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It is if you are laughing and applauding at someone being attacked on the street.

If its someone who I know has spent 2hrs tormenting a victim and his wife to the point of breaking, for no other reason than to sadistically enjoy their suffering and to share their recording of it with "friends", yes, I will absolutely laugh and applaud.

More :Moral High Ground:

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1148 - 2014-03-25 22:43:46 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It is if you are laughing and applauding at someone being attacked on the street.

If its someone who I know has spent 2hrs tormenting a victim and his wife to the point of breaking, for no other reason than to sadistically enjoy their suffering and to share their recording of it with "friends", yes, I will absolutely laugh and applaud.


Like we said, we understand that. And we understand that this makes you a worse person that the guy "tormenting" somone who consented to it (and who could have withdrawn consent with a single mouse click).
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#1149 - 2014-03-25 22:43:48 UTC
I'll point you back to here and ask you again too explain how, morally, you find pushing somebody, clearly less capable than you, acceptable.

I would ask you to frame it in the light that everything was removed from them very early on. After that it was merely gloating and "tear extraction."

Aaaaaaand relax.

Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1150 - 2014-03-25 22:43:49 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
---.


Why do you do it?

You already have their ISK and assets.

Whats with the 2hr of out of game torment. with demeaning and humiliating tasks on the false promise they will have their ingame stuff returned to them?

It is common theory that being bad in Eve Online is not a sign of being bad in RL.

Now thanks to Ero1 this theory looks like beaten to death.

Scamming in game -> humiliating in RL. Clear link between 2 behaviors. Good luck to all gankers, bumpers and other 'scum'....


I certainly hope that CCP does not end scamming, ganking, bumping, or even being 'scum' in game. I don't think that is the problem being highlighted here.

I certainly hope that CCP does consider methods of improving sportsmanship within the community. Where is the good fight? "Good try dude, but you were scammed better luck next time."
Salvos Rhoska
#1151 - 2014-03-25 22:43:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
This seems to come down to the fact that people are thinking Ero is doing this with malice. that observation is for everyone to make.


At the point the recording begins, Erotica1 already has the entirety of the victims assets.

The sole and only purpose of the subsequent entire 2hrs torment, is to humiliate and grief the victim.
That is malice.


Wrong.

It has been a long standing thing to get people to sing and record them.


At what point in the recording does the victim sing?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1152 - 2014-03-25 22:44:29 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
british accent.

any other questions you need answering?



YEah. Whats a British accent sound like?

Is it like an English Welsh Scots or Northern Irish one?

And which part of those places does it sound most like the accent of? Blink

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

paritybit
Solarmark
#1153 - 2014-03-25 22:45:05 UTC
Just posting to say that there's a line here. It's terribly blurry, but it's there. Nobody is going to be able to clearly define it. But nobody really needs to. It makes sense to me that CCP own the game; they own all the ones and zeros that make up New Eden and story the history of every pilot to have ever flown there. If they wanted to strip the privilege of being a part of this from someone, I think they have the right.

Now I just have to figure out how to impart my opinion that the line has been crossed here and Erotica 1 and friends are on the wrong side of it. Maybe typing this is enough; it probably isn't.

EVE is amazing in the way it provides countless ways for players to punish other players -- when they don't necessarily deserve any punishment at all. But, when it comes to a way to punish players who are completely deserving but know how to protect themselves (alts that never leave a station or that leave a station only in a disposable ship with the expectation of being blown up) there is very little recourse. This one is not and can not be in the hands of the players.

Once you go from scamming a player of all in-game assets and move on to crushing his dignity you've gone too far. Somewhere between those two points is the line. Please make a stand somewhere CCP.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1154 - 2014-03-25 22:45:18 UTC
Kadl wrote:
[

I certainly hope that CCP does not end scamming, ganking, bumping, or even being 'scum' in game. I don't think that is the problem being highlighted here.

I certainly hope that CCP does consider methods of improving sportsmanship within the community. Where is the good fight? "Good try dude, but you were scammed better luck next time."



I agree with you.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1155 - 2014-03-25 22:45:35 UTC
Its pretty clear what has to be done really.

sadists only understand pain, and they forfeit protections of society by abusing others.

In my high school, this sort of thing was deal with like this: guy would be found, cornered, and beaten to a pulp to tech him a lesson in manners. I did this a couple of times to bullies back in the day. It works.

If it has to devolve to high school level, If CCP wont step in and curb this **** like adults, I will not condemn whomever metes out street justice.

Simple as that.
Winchester Steele
#1156 - 2014-03-25 22:46:00 UTC
Kadl wrote:
Morihei Akachi wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
… I have my own opinions on this too.

It would be really interesting at some point to hear them. CCP’s policy at the moment is clearly not to intervene (otherwise it would have done a long time ago: this is by no means new behaviour on the part of E1), but it would be interesting to know how happy you guys are with that as a modus operandi, and whether you think that a change would be feasible/desirable.


CCP could just be behind the times on this. After all they are trying to find exciting new things to do with their internet spaceship game. They are not quite so interested in looking for all the ways that sadists try to cause misery and pain (otherwise they would be in a different business). My hope is that they start thinking about ways to encourage good sportsmanship within the community. We could really use some.



I know right. Can you believe that guy made death threats and used racial slurs on comms like that? Very poor sportsmanship indeed. I hope CCP considers banning his account as Erotica1 was lucky enough to have caught these threats on record. Here's hoping right?

...

Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#1157 - 2014-03-25 22:46:12 UTC
Kadl wrote:
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:
They defend it on the grounds that "Its Erotica 1 and we dont like him"
Yep, pretty solid defense right there.
If it had been some unknown dude making that recording, Im willing to bet most of these people would have thought it was funny.
I dont know if its because theyve been scammed themselves, theyre envious somehow.. Or something different, I mean real life celebrities also have people hating them "just because" right? So I guess that could be the case here aswell.


You are making a strawman argument. I had a slightly positive attitude towards Erotica1 coming into this situation. He was a hardcore scammer and EVE needs those people. What I didn't know is that he would take things beyond the game and actively prolong someones humiliation and pain simply for his personal amusement. Beat someone up and take everything they have in game - OK. Continue beyond the game for a sick personal amusement - reprehensible.


I might be making a strawman argument, but then again, if we go back in time and look up different videos and recordings if similar incidents, they have ALWAYS had positive feedback, on both these forums and on youtube.
The ONLY difference between those videos and this one, is that its Erotica 1 doing it, and hes been doing it for a long time.
Or am I missing something?

There are plenty of videos where people have other people sing to maybe give them their stuff back, there are plenty of videos of awoxers blowing up a shiny mission ship that someone spent ages gathering isk to buy, and recording their vocal reactions from teamspeak, teasing them and trolling them to get even more "tears", all of this has always been good fun, except now, for some reason.
Snupe Doggur
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1158 - 2014-03-25 22:46:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Snupe Doggur
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It is if you are laughing and applauding at someone being attacked on the street.

If its someone who I know has spent 2hrs tormenting a victim and his wife to the point of breaking, for no other reason than to sadistically enjoy their suffering and to share their recording of it with "friends", yes, I will absolutely laugh and applaud.
And anyone who seizes on the victim's rants while ignoring the context of the tormenting/torture is engaged in cheap sophistry.

Any of us can be made to say pretty much anything under duress, folks. "Just walk away" in this situation is about as helpful (and disingenuous) as "Just say no" was in another era. Some bullies selected a victim who was particularly vulnerable, and got the reaction they wanted. The power dynamics on either side were not equivalent; neither are the offenses.

Is it officially okay, CCP, to use in-game contacts for cyberbullying?
Dave Stark
#1159 - 2014-03-25 22:46:27 UTC
handige harrie wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
In these recordings, Erotica and Co. is the one doing the kicking. You are however still allowed to laugh.


if that's the case then is the "victim" stabbing erotica since his part in all of this is worse than ero's.
ero's part is very tame in comparison to the tirade of racial slurs and real life threats from the guy that hypothetically got kicked in the face.


Behaviours envokes reaction. Be bad (or good) to someone and you can expect a reaction which is often not thought out in the 'heat of the moment'. Although I agree he choice of words is rather awkward. But it sounds like a 'fight or flight' reaction after the realisation he got himself in a huge mess ingame as well as out of game, I don't think he gave the value of his words the same amount of thought as Erotica and Co did to their own words, when they came up with the idea on how to push people over the edge.


that's not an excuse for being racist, it just isn't. there's no excuse for that.
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#1160 - 2014-03-25 22:46:47 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It is if you are laughing and applauding at someone being attacked on the street.

If its someone who I know has spent 2hrs tormenting a victim and his wife to the point of breaking, for no other reason than to sadistically enjoy their suffering and to share their recording of it with "friends", yes, I will absolutely laugh and applaud.

Just pointing out that I find this also wrong behaviour.
I could see a part of me wanting to enjoy it (I'm not a perfect angel either) but I think it is wrong for the same reason than listening to and enjoying E1's recording.