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Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#821 - 2014-03-25 20:11:59 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character.


You are underestimating the severity of this situation.

Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US.


Without some kind of threat attached, the events described qualify as neither offense.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#822 - 2014-03-25 20:12:10 UTC
Next we shall blog about the reading of Erotic Fan Fiction over mumble while structure bashing and how its killing Eve!





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#823 - 2014-03-25 20:12:41 UTC
Danalee wrote:
As suggested in the blog, I let my dear grandmother hear the hilarious soundcloud and explained to her what happened.

She asked; Why is this poor man playing along with this charade?
My answer: He thinks he can be space rich if he does.
Her answer: Greedy and stupid... poor chap.

D.

Bear



Yes, this illness is passed on through generations.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#824 - 2014-03-25 20:12:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Jill Chastot wrote:
Also for the grr goons squad (because of tinfoil)

"mynnnaMarch 25, 2014 at 5:39 AM

Erotica1 had an alt in a goon membercorp (or perhaps it was his main character, who knows) and when he brought attention to himself trying to brag about his actions we shot him in the head for it.
"

Good point. If something is too offensive for Goons, it's probably something that's proscribed by every civilized society in the world. Blink
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#825 - 2014-03-25 20:13:44 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character.


You are underestimating the severity of this situation.

Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US.


(a) There is no blackmail here. ie blackmail requires the threat of information reveal, where Erotica upfront reveals to the user that the bonus room is recorded and may be rebroadcast.

(b) in order to be extorted of something, you need to own the something, and CCP plainly defines ingame assets as stuff you don't own.
Jack Lennox
Grove Street Families
#826 - 2014-03-25 20:13:56 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Danalee wrote:
---


Well, you lied to her.

What happened to him is the following by analogy:

Your daughter comes out of a store with a lollipop inhand, happy as can be.

A grown man comes up to your daughter and promises her that if she gives him her lollipop, he will give her two back in return.

Your daughter thinks about this for a moment, and decides that two lollipops are indeed better than one.
She complies and gives him her lollipop.

The grown man, now holding her lollipop, then additionally informs her that in order for her to get the double lollipop deal, she has to get off the street she is on, and follow him down this dark alley.

Your daughter thinks that "but he is still holding my lollipop! and maybe its true that I will still get the second one".

So she complies and follows him down the dark alleyway.

There suddenly more grown men appear, and begin demanding that she performs various degrading and humiliating activities in order to get back her lollipop.

I leave the rest to your imagination.

That is what happened here.




Ewwwww no, absolutely not

Been ganked? Robbed? Space feelings hurt?  Now there's something you can do! Fill out a Customer Service Comment Card!  EIther that or contact everyone's favorite Space Detective for an instant ban!
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#827 - 2014-03-25 20:15:05 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:

I doesnt apply because there was no cash value to anything.

No money changed hands.

Im not sure extortion can even be a thing without a threat of violence


Considering in game isk can be turned into plex\Aur etc which is worth RL cash and using plex u may "pay" sub and considering there is some RL cash value to isk in EVE you point is invalid.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#828 - 2014-03-25 20:15:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

What happened to him is the following by analogy:

Your daughter comes out of a store with a lollipop inhand, happy as can be.

A grown man comes up to your daughter and promises her that if she gives him her lollipop, he will give her two back in return.

Your daughter thinks about this for a moment, and decides that two lollipops are indeed better than one.
She complies and gives him her lollipop.

The grown man, now holding her lollipop, then additionally informs her that in order for her to get the double lollipop deal, she has to get off the street she is on, and follow him down this dark alley.

That is what is happening here.


I agree. And that is in no way, shape, or form, extortion or blackmail. Its a breach of contract. You must be a terrible lawyer.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Dave Stark
#829 - 2014-03-25 20:15:40 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Next we shall blog about the reading of Erotic Fan Fiction over mumble while structure bashing and how its killing Eve!







this type of smut must be stamped out!
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#830 - 2014-03-25 20:17:21 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character.


You are underestimating the severity of this situation.

Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US.


Are you serious?!

I loled for real

Seriously



Hey, to be perfectly fair his statment is perfectly correct.

Is it applicable to this conversation? That is questionable.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#831 - 2014-03-25 20:17:58 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

What happened to him is the following by analogy:

Your daughter comes out of a store with a lollipop inhand, happy as can be.

A grown man comes up to your daughter and promises her that if she gives him her lollipop, he will give her two back in return.

Your daughter thinks about this for a moment, and decides that two lollipops are indeed better than one.
She complies and gives him her lollipop.

The grown man, now holding her lollipop, then additionally informs her that in order for her to get the double lollipop deal, she has to get off the street she is on, and follow him down this dark alley.

That is what is happening here.


I agree. And that is in no way, shape, or form, extortion or blackmail. Its a breach of contract. You must be a terrible lawyer.


Both of those quotes are just wrong. I feel violated.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#832 - 2014-03-25 20:18:21 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
Considering in game isk can be turned into plex\Aur etc which is worth RL cash and using plex u may "pay" sub and considering there is some RL cash value to isk in EVE you point is invalid.


Oh aren't you clever. That line of reasoning doesn't count however. CCP owns everything. If you own 100 plex, you have no right to sell those to your friend for RL, despite what he may be willing to pay for them.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#833 - 2014-03-25 20:18:28 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:

I doesnt apply because there was no cash value to anything.

No money changed hands.

Im not sure extortion can even be a thing without a threat of violence


Considering in game isk can be turned into plex\Aur etc which is worth RL cash and using plex u may "pay" sub and considering there is some RL cash value to isk in EVE you point is invalid.


Once its turned into Isk it cant be turned back and so has no cash value
Pretty sure CCP is clear about that

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#834 - 2014-03-25 20:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

....
Duress is represented in this case by Erotica1 holding the players ingame assets against him as ransom, as a means of blackmail/extortion to coerce the player into the out of game context.

Erotica1 already holds the players assets at this point (legitimately).
...
He is forced, by coercion applying duress, to follow into that out of game context.
..

Online gaming lawyer is fail lawyer....

Contract law: Offer, Acceptance, Consideration and "Volenti non fit injuria"

Offer: "If you give me all your assets, you can play the bonus round for a chance to quadruple it"
Acceptance: Client sends Erotica1 all his assets.
Consideration: Erotica1 gave the client 2 hours of her time performing bonus round activities and giving the client 'a chance' at quadrupling his submitted fees.

Regarding the 'quality' of a contract or received consideration....

VNFI: "if someone willingly places themselves in a position where harm might result, knowing that some degree of harm might result, they are not able to bring a claim against the other party in tort or delict"

tldr;
This was not a legal contract, but a gaming roleplay, but even if it WAS played out in the real world as a real contract, the client would still be SOL. The contract was completed based on offer, acceptance and consideration being realized, and it is NOT the role of the law (or CCP) to measure the quality of received consideration, nor to protect stupid people from striking stupid contracts. This is why contracts have lots of fine printy things in them people should read BEFORE giving their acceptance.

Let the buyer beware. Hope the client uses this valuable in-game lesson in his real life future, for in truth Erotica1 may have saved this guy from some REAL life heartache in the future, and did him a SERVICE...

That's HTFU, bitches.

F

Would you like to know more?
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#835 - 2014-03-25 20:19:27 UTC
After reading this threadnaught, The bunnies think you are all nuts....Roll
Salvos Rhoska
#836 - 2014-03-25 20:19:57 UTC
Batelle wrote:
I agree. And that is in no way, shape, or form, extortion or blackmail. Its a breach of contract. You must be a terrible lawyer.


I suppose you could argue that extortion/blackmail are a form of breach of contract.
But that is why you are not a lawyer.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#837 - 2014-03-25 20:20:04 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
Also for the grr goons squad (because of tinfoil)

"mynnnaMarch 25, 2014 at 5:39 AM

Erotica1 had an alt in a goon membercorp (or perhaps it was his main character, who knows) and when he brought attention to himself trying to brag about his actions we shot him in the head for it.
"

Good point. If something is too disgusting for Goons, it's probably something that's proscribed by every civilized society in the world.


There is more to it than that.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#838 - 2014-03-25 20:20:06 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Just trying to follow your logic that goes from someone willingly participating with the ability to quit at ANY time to harrasement.

Again, the same as a con. Doesn't make it not a con. This is not a complicated idea to grasp friend.

Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Your follow ups indicate to me that you're real problem was with the scam all along.

Maybe you need less indicating and following, and better reading comprehension. When you start to imagine things never said, you're losing the plot.

Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Feel free to correct my misconceptions. I'll happily let any clarification you make stand for your opinion on the subject.

"I will assert nonsense and shift the burden on to you."

Ok.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#839 - 2014-03-25 20:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:

I doesnt apply because there was no cash value to anything.

No money changed hands.

Im not sure extortion can even be a thing without a threat of violence


Considering in game isk can be turned into plex\Aur etc which is worth RL cash and using plex u may "pay" sub and considering there is some RL cash value to isk in EVE you point is invalid.
Umm no. ISK, PLEX and AURUM have no real world value, they can not be exchanged for real world currencies, not legally anyway.

When people give CCP money for a PLEX or AURUM they exchange that money for ingame assets, once those assets are delivered CCPs contractual obligations are fulfilled. What happens to those ingame items afterwards is entirely the buyers responsibility.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#840 - 2014-03-25 20:21:11 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
Batelle wrote:
I agree. And that is in no way, shape, or form, extortion or blackmail. Its a breach of contract. You must be a terrible lawyer.


Both of those quotes are just wrong. I feel violated.



well, I'm not the one claiming to be a lawyer, are you? Am i wrong about a verbal agreement constituting a contract or am I wrong about the lollipop analogy being completely appropriate?

An agreement made in Eve, or an agreement concerning the transference of eve assets, obviously does not constitute a contract.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.