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Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#661 - 2014-03-25 18:52:58 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
then he should have removed himself from the situation.

"When the bullies harass you, go find a teacher."

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#662 - 2014-03-25 18:53:28 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Drone 16 wrote:


The only hoops you that are being jumped through are the ones that you are your friends are frantically skipping through to rationalize outright cruelty. Sure the victim walked into it, sure he should be fleeced, this is Eve not "Hello Kitty" but that recording goes far beyond that.

You defend it because you identify more strongly with what Erotica1 did and you support that type of behavior in the game. Just be honest and say it.



Son you don't know me so don't act like you do. i wouldn't do what Erotica did, because i don't gain enjoyment from that kind of thing. But Erotica didn't do any kind of real crime or break any EVE rules IMO. EVE is supposed to be terribly harsh and only the mentally sound and stout should be playing it.

What gets on my nerves (in and out of game) is this weak-knee'd , irresponsible "oh woe is me" victim mentality people have. Earlier in this thread i posted my casino experiences and this is about the same thing: some dumb dude got greed then got...well, GOT for it.

And then you legions of gullible enablers come out of the wood work yelling 'that's so wrong' at the guy pulling the scam rather than saying what they should...GROW UP (to the so called 'victim' who is a grown man).


If you are unable to separate the fact that Eve is a cold, dark, harsh game where the strong prosper and the weak are ground underfoot from a group of people mocking someone for a speech impediment and intentionally pushing him to the edge then you have the problem.

This was never about the guy getting taken to the cleaners. Almost every post I read says that he deserved to get scammed. It's beyond that. Are you such a cynical person that you can't see the difference.

Exactly, what pray tell are we enabling here? I'm not advocating he get his stuff back or that scams be stopped. This is different and if you don't know it you should.


Oh, and I don't recall seeing you at my last hoedown so don't call me "Son", Son.

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#663 - 2014-03-25 18:53:31 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Bottom line, CCP either does something about this or not. It's pedantry to talk about legality and court processes.

If it's a black eye, I am pretty sure CCP will do something about it. They have enough stuff written into their EULA, they can arbitrarily axe someone from the game any time they please. They don't need to provide an explanation or a rationale for it. They can simply do it.

If this recording upset you and they don't, then all you have is getting mad.

If this recording doesn't upset you and they do something, all you have is getting mad.


I get the feeling you think Erotica 1 is the one who violated the EULA, not the guy who made RL death threats and racial slurs. You know, stuff that is against the EULA.

I'll just say what I've been trying to get at with my Eve Voice remarks. If Erotica 1 had used Eve Voice instead of Teamspeak, Sohkar would be permabanned. The only reason he isn't is because it was in Teamspeak. Scamming is a part of Eve. Making people sing songs, quote poetry, or whatever is also a part of Eve. Not honoring ransoms, also a part of Eve. Death threats and biggotry are specifically banned by the EULA and that is what should get punished by CCP.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#664 - 2014-03-25 18:53:32 UTC
La Nariz wrote:


What law was broken, cite the specific statute and provide proof of your prosecutorial/law enforcement credentials?


Forest for the trees.

Who cares if a law was broken. Arguing that is a pointless waste of time outside a recognized court of law in the appropriate jurisdiction.

The forest, in this case, is the perception and what CCP is going to do about it before it hits the mainstream media. Games have been set back months or even years for less.

Promoting asshatery in a game sells subs. Allowing it to be carried out of the game loses them. CCP is well aware of the situation and the perception is that they don't care.

That's going to come back to bite them on the ass.

Mr Epeen Cool
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#665 - 2014-03-25 18:54:12 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

most enjoyment in this game is derived from ruining some one's day. the difference is, this guy could close TS whenever he wanted.

hell, it was easier for him to remove himself from this situation than it is to safely log out of eve.

You know who else could have closed TS? Erotica 1.

But I guess once someone logs onto your comms you're obliged to torment him until he snaps.
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#666 - 2014-03-25 18:54:21 UTC


Quote:
then he should have removed himself from the situation


I agree - but you have to remember some people don't react how you and I might.

I think it was taken too far - a lot of people seem to feel the same.

Aaaaaaand relax.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#667 - 2014-03-25 18:55:08 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
31 pages?
damn having a job really means i miss out on all the fun.

people still mad that dumb people are dumb, and some one took advantage of it. like every day both in and out of the game?

if so, i'm not sure why this has really got to 31 pages since there's not really much of a story here other than "dumb people be dumb, and people profit from it".


And then carry the charade on for personal pleasure and ego-stroking.

I don't see how you can realistically justify the extent of the situation they put this guy through. The rest of it was purely for enjoyment. Some people find that objectionable.


most enjoyment in this game is derived from ruining some one's day. the difference is, this guy could close TS whenever he wanted.

hell, it was easier for him to remove himself from this situation than it is to safely log out of eve.


You discount the level of emotional attachment that was involved after a while. I am not defending the person that was scammed here at all.

That someone is gullible and perhaps not that smart is not reason to prolong the situation for as long as it went on.

That's my concern. The length of time that this went on is slightly disturbing to a number of people.


i understand your concern, but at all times the 'victim' had the ability to end his victimization (unlike real world victims who can't just shut off their attackers).

If he is somehow incapable of making the decision to shut it down, then he should not be on the internet at all IMO. At the end of the day, the individual is responsible for himself, no one else is.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#668 - 2014-03-25 18:56:46 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
31 pages?
damn having a job really means i miss out on all the fun.

people still mad that dumb people are dumb, and some one took advantage of it. like every day both in and out of the game?

if so, i'm not sure why this has really got to 31 pages since there's not really much of a story here other than "dumb people be dumb, and people profit from it".


And then carry the charade on for personal pleasure and ego-stroking.

I don't see how you can realistically justify the extent of the situation they put this guy through. The rest of it was purely for enjoyment. Some people find that objectionable.


most enjoyment in this game is derived from ruining some one's day. the difference is, this guy could close TS whenever he wanted.

hell, it was easier for him to remove himself from this situation than it is to safely log out of eve.


I see this excuse repeated over and over. The problem with it is that when you steal candy from a baby or trick the elderly, weak minded, or foolish to give you their rent money, you're still an asshat. Moreover, in my mind, your conduct is more reprehensible because you took advantage of people who, for what ever reason, are mentally infirm, weak and incapable of adequately defending themselves. Sure E1's victim could have gotten up and left - the fact that he stayed showed his mental infirmities, and it is playing off those infirmities that makes E1's action so obscene.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Dave Stark
#669 - 2014-03-25 18:57:04 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
then he should have removed himself from the situation.

"When the bullies harass you, go find a teacher."

that's terrible advice.
if you're a child being bullied, kick the kid in the knackers and make sure you're out of there by the time he gets up again.
Qalix
Long Jump.
#670 - 2014-03-25 18:57:11 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


What law was broken, cite the specific statute and provide proof of your prosecutorial/law enforcement credentials?


Forest for the trees.

Who cares if a law was broken. Arguing that is a pointless waste of time outside a recognized court of law in the appropriate jurisdiction.

The forest, in this case, is the perception and what CCP is going to do about it before it hits the mainstream media. Games have been set back months or even years for less.

Promoting asshatery in a game sells subs. Allowing it to be carried out of the game loses them. CCP is well aware of the situation and the perception is that they don't care.

That's going to come back to bite them on the ass.

Mr Epeen Cool

Holy crap, E-Peen. I have to actually like one of your posts!
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#671 - 2014-03-25 18:57:26 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
then he should have removed himself from the situation.

"When the bullies harass you, go find a teacher."


actually they tell you to walk away.

Its good advice.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#672 - 2014-03-25 18:57:41 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


What law was broken, cite the specific statute and provide proof of your prosecutorial/law enforcement credentials?


Forest for the trees.

Who cares if a law was broken. Arguing that is a pointless waste of time outside a recognized court of law in the appropriate jurisdiction.

The forest, in this case, is the perception and what CCP is going to do about it before it hits the mainstream media. Games have been set back months or even years for less.

Promoting asshatery in a game sells subs. Allowing it to be carried out of the game loses them. CCP is well aware of the situation and the perception is that they don't care.

That's going to come back to bite them on the ass.

Mr Epeen Cool


I'll bet isk that it doesn't come back to bite them in any part of their collective corporate ass. I'd even guess that things like this might increase subs as there are sure to be people playing other games who would appreciate the freedom and directness of a game like EVE.
Dave Stark
#673 - 2014-03-25 18:58:29 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

most enjoyment in this game is derived from ruining some one's day. the difference is, this guy could close TS whenever he wanted.

hell, it was easier for him to remove himself from this situation than it is to safely log out of eve.

You know who else could have closed TS? Erotica 1.

But I guess once someone logs onto your comms you're obliged to torment him until he snaps.


congratulations, you've realised how easy it is to close TS. such a shame the "victim" wasn't as enlightened as you.
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#674 - 2014-03-25 18:58:50 UTC
Quote:
i understand your concern, but at all times the 'victim' had the ability to end his victimization (unlike real world victims who can't just shut off their attackers).

If he is somehow incapable of making the decision to shut it down, then he should not be on the internet at all IMO. At the end of the day, the individual is responsible for himself, no one else is.


Yeah there is an element of truth to that. I do feel sorry for the guy as he stepped into a situation with someone vastly more capable than him.

Once he was emotionally invested then he clearly couldn't cope with what was going on.

That doesn't detract from the fact that Erotica1 could have had some fun, stripped his assets, made him do something daft and moved on. There has to be some level of responsibility from the person who is manipulating someone (in the literal sense of the word.) via the medium of a computer game.

Aaaaaaand relax.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#675 - 2014-03-25 18:59:17 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
then he should have removed himself from the situation.

"When the bullies harass you, go find a teacher."

that's terrible advice.
if you're a child being bullied, kick the kid in the knackers and make sure you're out of there by the time he gets up again.


Dont do what I did then I was 10 and stab him with a pencil

Teachers and parents start to not believe that you were being pushed.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Winchester Steele
#676 - 2014-03-25 18:59:40 UTC
Malcolm from Marketing wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
Oh, and please feel free to tip my bounty. Maybe if some of the people here bump me up to #1, no one will play my game...


So besides the odd edgy post, you have no serious reply to this whole thing to show all the doubters that what you did/do is perfectly acceptable?



He doesn't owe you, me or anyone else in this thread anything. Acceptable/unacceptable is between him and ccp. Your opinion is irrelevant.

...

Salvos Rhoska
#677 - 2014-03-25 18:59:41 UTC
Batelle wrote:
[I wasn't disputing the veracity of the recording, I'm saying that CCP has no obligation to press charges against erotica1 for ransoming CCP's property.


The EULA also stipulates to protect paying customers. Its a unilateral agreement where part of the service provided is exactly to protect customers who sign it and pay for the service from exactly this kind of behavior.

Id rather not dig through it all to point out where, but its in there and the means to enforce it are too.
Probably they are open to a great degree of interpretation.

I personally would hope that CCP does not support or endorse its services being used against its clients by persons extending them to out of game potentially criminal behavior, as would seem to be the case in this specific instance at least from where Im standing.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#678 - 2014-03-25 19:00:22 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


What law was broken, cite the specific statute and provide proof of your prosecutorial/law enforcement credentials?


Forest for the trees.

Who cares if a law was broken. Arguing that is a pointless waste of time outside a recognized court of law in the appropriate jurisdiction.

The forest, in this case, is the perception and what CCP is going to do about it before it hits the mainstream media. Games have been set back months or even years for less.

Promoting asshatery in a game sells subs. Allowing it to be carried out of the game loses them. CCP is well aware of the situation and the perception is that they don't care.

That's going to come back to bite them on the ass.

Mr Epeen Cool


Thank you for illustrating your moronicity. That dumb npc alt was whining about real laws being broken and how there will be ~consequences~.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#679 - 2014-03-25 19:01:06 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:

I'm to page 19 now. Contrary to popular belief, Widot guys are actually pretty smart.


Serious question. Are you going to consider (or at least respond to) the concerns people have outed over what you've been doing? And I mean respond as a person, as the player behind the keyboard, not as the Erotica1 'internet persona' which we all know (hope?) is an act.


We could do that for the CSM podcast interview thing. Since everyone likes to assume things, I suppose I should just mention the following:

I'm Catholic, support gay rights, pro life (but support contraception), love discussing politics (and voting for the person not the party), totally against animal abuse, and all around average middle of the road American. Call me stupid, but I even give money to street corner beggars. Yeah, they could be scammers, but you know what, they might be homeless and hungry too.

No, I'm not calling the cops over all these people wanting me dead over internet space pixels lost by anonymous people. Sohkar's friend threatened in-game to gut me in real life. No, I didn't report that.

I would be happy to discuss the Erotica 1 brand on TS, perhaps for Massively? I was supposed to do an interview (and I suggested live bonus round) for PC Gamer awhile back but I put that off and forgot about it.

I'd also be happy to accept a position at CCP (feel free to create a position for me) and retire Ero. That'd be cool.




Thank you for not being one of those people who work for hours to drive someone up a wall, make them blow up and say things they normally would not say, then go running to the cops saying 'ewwwwww I feel threatened!!".

(I have seen people do this at protests, get in someone's face, get pushed away, then go running to the nearest cop claiming assault - if you ever really want to see what someone looks like when they truly want to murder someone else and would, observe one of those situations)


But we must admit, if you did press charges, wouldn't it be rather awkward to explain what you were doing and why at the time you got threatened? I'd hate to be on a witness stand with that story and a jury of people who live in the "real world" is not going to see any victims at the point where all the facts are known.

IMO this matter involving your actions is a PR and IP issue at best. Once you had your mark's money and stuff, going that extra mile may have been a bit overboard.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Big Lynx
#680 - 2014-03-25 19:01:11 UTC
Again: how much isk was scammed out of that guy?