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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#181 - 2014-03-25 14:01:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Neltharak Idrissil wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


In what country is calling for people to kill themselves against the law? Please link.


As you wish.

French Code Penal article 223-13. Google it, linking doesnt work for some reason.
Roughly translated

"The fact of incitating suicide from a person is punished by three years of imprisonment and a 45000 euros fine when the provocation has been followed by suicide or a suicide attept."

Or is the freaking government site wrong somehow ? Similar laws exist in quite a bit of countries. So yes, i stand by it. This has the potential of being a very serious legal offense.


I interpret laws all day every day as a matter of my job and I get it that sometimes people who aren't used to doing so don't understand things.

For what the Mittani had done to be illegal in France (The country whose law you linked) it would have had to have been FOLLOWED BY suicide or a suicide attempt. Since we know of no such suicide or attempt, what Mittens did was not illegal in the country whose law you linked.



Mittani was in Iceland when he uttered those words. Show me Icelandic law on the matter please.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#182 - 2014-03-25 14:03:35 UTC
Do you people even hear yourselves?

"Extenuating circumstances" for death threats, "He had it coming" for being stalked in real life? Over a videogame?

What kind of twisted caricature of morality do you have where you can justify this to yourselves?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#183 - 2014-03-25 14:04:13 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
And this...isnt what Erotica1 did?


Thanks for admitting his guilt :)

CHECKMATE, again.

My god, you are TERRIBLE at this.


No one denied it.

I guess english isnt your platform of choice huh.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ameline Veil
uncooperative freight company
#184 - 2014-03-25 14:05:40 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Simply amazing that people can ignore or excuse the ugly racism and death threats because $20 in space pixels was lost in a gamble.



So here we face a society that believes of it's superiority over other people and cultures. A society that pretends to wage a war for higher curses like democracy, freedom of speech, darwinism or human rights. But i say this is not the case. You choose to wage war for those who gain from it. You wage war and feel offended by the fact that people try to defend them self, no matter how desperate they act.

You ignore the fact that you created your enemy.
Neltharak Idrissil
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2014-03-25 14:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Neltharak Idrissil
Jenn aSide wrote:
Neltharak Idrissil wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


In what country is calling for people to kill themselves against the law? Please link.


As you wish.

French Code Penal article 223-13. Google it, linking doesnt work for some reason.
Roughly translated

"The fact of incitating suicide from a person is punished by three years of imprisonment and a 45000 euros fine when the provocation has been followed by suicide or a suicide attept."

Or is the freaking government site wrong somehow ? Similar laws exist in quite a bit of countries. So yes, i stand by it. This has the potential of being a very serious legal offense.


I interpret laws all day every day as a matter of my job and I get it that sometimes people who aren't used to doing so don't understand things.

For what the Mittani had done to be illegal in France (The country whose law you link) it would have had to have been FOLLOWED BY suicide or a suicide attempt. Since we know of no such suicide or attempt, what Mittens did was not illgal in the country whose law you linked.

Mittani was in Iceland when he uttered those words. Show me Icelandic law on the matter please.


Hence what i said "This HAS THE POTENTIAL of being a very serious legal offense. We agree on that point. I'm not aware of icelandic law. You asked me for an example and i gave you one, but you're right, he might not have broken a law there.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#186 - 2014-03-25 14:07:35 UTC
Ameline Veil wrote:

So here we face a society that believes of it's superiority over other people and cultures. A society that pretends to wage a war for higher curses like democracy, freedom of speech, darwinism or human rights. But i say this is not the case. You choose to wage war for those who gain from it. You wage war and feel offended by the fact that people try to defend them self, no matter how desperate they act.

You ignore the fact that you created your enemy.


Forgive me if I have totally misinterpreted your meaning but...


Did you just equate someone being a racist jerk to an irregular guerilla fighter?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Salvos Rhoska
#187 - 2014-03-25 14:09:47 UTC
If someone roundhouse kicked Erotica1, I would laugh and applaud :)

And Im completely within my rights to say and think so, both offline and here on this board.

You can think Im a "bad" person for that, but no law or contract prevents me from laughing or applauding, nor for saying I would.

It wouldnt be me kicking him, and its entirely within my purview how I, as an unassociated autonomous individual, choose to respond to that with laughter and clapping, or to say that that would be my reaction.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#188 - 2014-03-25 14:10:32 UTC
Neltharak Idrissil wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Neltharak Idrissil wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


In what country is calling for people to kill themselves against the law? Please link.


As you wish.

French Code Penal article 223-13. Google it, linking doesnt work for some reason.
Roughly translated

"The fact of incitating suicide from a person is punished by three years of imprisonment and a 45000 euros fine when the provocation has been followed by suicide or a suicide attept."

Or is the freaking government site wrong somehow ? Similar laws exist in quite a bit of countries. So yes, i stand by it. This has the potential of being a very serious legal offense.


I interpret laws all day every day as a matter of my job and I get it that sometimes people who aren't used to doing so don't understand things.

For what the Mittani had done to be illegal in France (The country whose law you link) it would have had to have been FOLLOWED BY suicide or a suicide attempt. Since we know of no such suicide or attempt, what Mittens did was not illgal in the country whose law you linked.

Mittani was in Iceland when he uttered those words. Show me Icelandic law on the matter please.


Hence what i said "This HAS THE POTENTIAL of being a very serious legal offense. We agree on that point.


Now you's just being silly. See the above highlighted portions.

The poster I was replying to said what mittani did WAS ILLEGAL. I asked for a link to a country where simply uttering some words about suicide was illegal. You link a law that only makes it illegal IF a suicide or attempt occurs, which has nothing to do with what I asked for or what I was replying to.

An act is either illegal, or legal. What mittani did was not illegal under the law you linked. You were wrong.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2014-03-25 14:10:42 UTC
Jita Otsito wrote:
1. I find Erotica behavior despicable. My line is when you get nothing in game for your effort but still continue to goad/insult person out of game just to get reaction out of them. Thats why Im reasonably ok (dont want to really play with them, but dont mind them being in game) with people that scam people out of their ingame assets, but discussed kind of behavior is unacceptable for me.
2. IMO if CCP wanted to act point one of TOS gives them all justification theyd need: "You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or (...)" (abuse: to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way)
3. to avoid slippery slope you can just define this as "abusing people out of game originating in game for no in game purpose".



I think you will find all the abuse and IRL threats are directed at Erotica /James /Minerbumbers/ pirates /awoxers/ thieves /margin scammers and rarely if ever from these groups. Many "victims" of these people are indeed banned by CCP for precisely the reasons you suggest.
Time to think about what you have written and to whom it applies.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#190 - 2014-03-25 14:10:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.


I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#191 - 2014-03-25 14:12:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Actually the gay thing is particularly dangerous because there are lots of people who find homosexuality disgusting and offensive, but also plenty who find homophobia the same. We could get everybody banned just by asking them if they hate gays or not.


CSM Malcanis spinnig the thread towards talking about gay rights instead of the issue.
Is that the same known CSM tactics of shutting down any player resistance? Yeah. Keep extinguishing fires.

Keep it going, we will sure get far. How about you concetrate on the matter?

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2014-03-25 14:13:09 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.


I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming.


If this actually happened, the person taking a swing would be in the wrong, whether his victim 'had it coming' or not.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#193 - 2014-03-25 14:13:37 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
If someone roundhouse kicked Erotica1, I would laugh and applaud :)

And Im completely within my rights to say and think so, both offline and here on this board.

You can think Im a "bad" person for that, but no law or contract prevents me from laughing or applauding, nor for saying I would.

It wouldnt be me kicking him, and its entirely within my purview how I, as an unassociated autonomous individual, choose to respond to that with laughter and clapping, or to say that that would be my reaction.


You are within your rights to do all that. We are within our right to laugh at you when such things happen because you had it coming to you.

See, this is the problem. You are advocating the banning of a person who did something you think is bad while at the same time saying that YOU would do something that almost all of us think would be bad (laughing Erotica1 being physically assaulted for playing a video game). It makes you every bit as morally reprehensible as the person you think needs to be banned.
Salvos Rhoska
#194 - 2014-03-25 14:17:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Jenn aSide wrote:
It makes you every bit as morally reprehensible as the person you think needs to be banned.


Nope.

Because my laughter and applause is directed at someone who has been actively griefing and humiliating other human beings beyond the pale of civility, even considering the circumstances of EVE as a game, getting it back right in the face.

Erotica1 deliberately, and provably, griefs and humiliates other human beings beyond the scope of the games systems.

I have not.

I'd be genuinely scared for my own security if I was Erotica1, as a result of his chosen actions towards other human beings.
World is full of crazies, you know.
Not like its unprecedented.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#195 - 2014-03-25 14:17:46 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.


I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming.


This belief of yours in wholly unethical.

The only reason for someone to use physical force is in defense of themselves or another innocent person. There is 100% NOTHING a person can do (even if that thing were to be actually criminal) to justify being assaulted, period. If you believe otherwise it just means that somewhere along the line you weren't taught ethical behavior.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#196 - 2014-03-25 14:17:59 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.


I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming.


No, there isn't.

Because you can say precisely the same thing about Monopoly. You can take someone's play money over and over, until they've had enough.

But they are NEVER given a pass for knocking the table over, or threatening to hurt the other players.

Undue, unnatural attachment to freaking play money (in EVE, pixels) is what causes this aberrant overblown emotional reaction. It's not healthy, and it's not ok to be that way. Not one little bit.

The solution is to grow up, get over themselves, and settle the **** down about this game. It's like shooting their television every time they fall down a bottomless pit in Mario Brothers. If it bothers them that much, freaking quit playing and get control of themselves. They're not fit to be among polite society if they have such issues as that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2014-03-25 14:18:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Hands up everyone who can see a problem with demanding the CCP ban people on the basis of "They haven't broken any game rules, and they haven't broken any laws, but I find them personally distasteful"



There are elements within CCP that tend toward this arbitrary way of thinking, however.

After all, isn't this the same outfit that decided to apparently hand out a 1 year ban to Fon Revedhort for having the temerity to hold unfashionable political views AND run for CSM 7/8?

I can understand CCP not wanting a white supremacist on the CSM - and turfing him from the election.
But CCP decided to go further and handed out a lengthy in-game suspension anyway.

Not sure I'm comfortable with CCP handing out bans for what amounts to 'out of game thought-crime'.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#198 - 2014-03-25 14:20:20 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.


I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming.


If this actually happened, the person taking a swing would be in the wrong, whether his victim 'had it coming' or not.


Sure, of course he'd be in the wrong. Just like a kid taking a swing at his bully in the playground would be in the wrong. But it'd also be understandable.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Salvos Rhoska
#199 - 2014-03-25 14:20:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
The only reason for someone to use physical force is in defense of themselves or another innocent person.

Or property. Nor does the other person have to qualify as "innocent" in order to legally justify physical force being used in their defense.

You just showed you are lying about having legal training.

Thanks for playing!

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#200 - 2014-03-25 14:20:45 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
It makes you every bit as morally reprehensible as the person you think needs to be banned.


Nope.

Because my laughter and applause is directed at someone who has been actively griefing and humiliating other human beings beyond the pale of civility, even considering the circumstances of EVE as a game, getting it back right in the face.

Erotica1 deliberately, and provably, griefs and humiliates other human beings beyond the scope of the games systems.

I have not.

I'd be genuinely scared for my own security if I was Erotica1. World is full of crazies, you know.
Not like its unprecedented.


You'd be laughing at someone who outplayed someone in a video game being physically assaulted. The only thing Erotica1 could do to justify physical assault is physcially assult someone.

If you don't understand why you are wrong, I can't help you understand it now. Such understanding needs to be instilled while a person is still young by parents and by a community that values right and wrong.