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Jester Trek Latest Blog

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Malcolm from Marketing
Klaatu Technologies
#101 - 2014-03-25 12:57:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tuscor wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Here is Jesters latest Blog

http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/the-bonus-round.html

As you can probably tell it is to do with Erotica 1's bonus round.

It is a very damning blog.

I can only surmise that Jester has brought the subject up with CCP and was not happy with there response which thus led him to create this blog. (Many apologise if I am wrong)

I would be very interested to hear what the community at large thinks and perhaps for Erotica and friends to refute the claims being made that they actually enjoy the pain and humiliation that they cause, especially to the man in the recording linked in Jesters Blog.


Is it CCP's responsibility to police out of game interaction between their players where no law has been broken?

If so, where does that responsibility end? Should they ban a player when his wife complains about him playing EVE instead of doing the chores?

If I hook up with another EVE player who happens to be from say Japan, should CCP have the right and duty to ban me if the GM involved disapproves of inter-racial relationships? What about homosexual relationships?

What if I encourage another player to log in to fleet and miss church on sunday?

Where exactly does CCP's "responsibility" end?



CCP might just want to stop gross behaviours associated with their game. They have no responsiblity to maybe, and certainly no legal obligation but maybe they should do something anyway in this instance.


"Gays are gross. I demand people ban any player who admits to being gay. The community should cleaned of such filth" On what basis do CCP resist that demand?

Once being merely distasteful is suffficient reason to ban someone, then pretty quickly the only people left are the ones who haven't done anything to even briefly offend anyone.

"That guy killed my untanked Iteron full of compressed Crokite and A-type loot, AND HE ENJOYED IT! ban him!"



Your counter arguments are empty of content and pathetic at best.

Your point out Erotica broke no rules or laws, your quite correct. What he has done can be likened to bringing the game into disrepute by going above and beyond to push the boundaries of whats acceptable in the name of emergent gameplay.
CCP should consider very carefully if this is the type of behavior they want associated with their game as it's treading very dangerous grounds.
Ignoring all that, it's simply a case of morals, ( ironic in a game such as EVE i know ) yes its a game, yes he was a willing participant but that still doesnt excuse what's happened and has happened many times previous.

CCP should remove ALL his assets over ALL his accounts and give him a temp ban. Thats the right course of action in this case, but of course thats not what your interested in is it.
Xander Delacroix
Doomheim
#102 - 2014-03-25 12:57:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Delacroix
Tuscor wrote:
Malcanis is right I think, although his way of arguing is very confontational and adversarial Smile

CCP shouldn't just ban Erotica. MAYBE they should carefully assess how much they want that kind of behaviour associated with thier game (and it is associated, abviously, despite the offending behaviour occurring out of game). And then MAYBE they should change the rules to make identifying victims for this kind of behaviour ingame and then using ingame activities (scamming and contracting their stuff) as part of the tormenting behaviour against the rules.

This is just an idea - it would probably be very hard to draft properly into the TOS and it may be deemed too subjective. But rules can be changed. Those of us that come from common law jurisdictions know that the laws constantly change to reflect society's expectations and changing views on things - homosexuality was once against the law in the UK - now its not... it is currently legal to use certain tax loopholes involving the channel islands and trusts... the UK government is changing the law becuase they dont like it...

Its currently arguably within the rules but maybe it shouldnt be...



Of all the arguments made on this thread so far, this is by far the best in my opinion. Reasonable, thoughtful and with a view to the wider Eve community as well as the wider community as a whole. I really wish I'd thought of it first...
Salvos Rhoska
#103 - 2014-03-25 12:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Perhaps one day I will open a newspaper and read an article about how a disgruntled player hunts down and murders a player infamously known for griefing. Or, hopefully not, an article about how a disgruntled player upset by how he/she perceives the community/company to have treated him at large, and go AWOL at a Fanfest.

These are potential risks you know. Should be careful how far you push people and what you allow.

We already had the suicidal guy in the Mittani incident.
Not like this kind of thing is not without precedent.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#104 - 2014-03-25 13:00:14 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Perhaps one day I will open a newspaper and read an article about how a disgruntled player hunts down and murders a player infamously known for griefing.


I've mentioned this before, but I was actually stalked at one point by someone I "griefed" in a videogame. They sent me a link with a picture of my front door on it.

How do you feel about that?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#105 - 2014-03-25 13:00:30 UTC
Rely on the EVE Debate Club to turn a thread into an argument about hypothetical scenarios and argumentative fallacies producing 5 pages per minute of irrelevant rambling.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#106 - 2014-03-25 13:02:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tuscor wrote:
Malcanis is right I think, although his way of arguing is very confontational and adversarial Smile


When I see calls for "mob justice" based on emotional reactions, I tend to confront them as an adversary, yes.

Sorry I'm not quite as smooth as Atticus Finch Blink


Smooth enough.

I keep thinking that this is an example of the "Inverse Morality" principle. One guy (erotica) plays a harsh game within it's harsh rules, another guy (the victim) playing the same harsh game loses (and through his epic over-reaction generates a good deal of laughter) while revealing that he is the ACTUAL bad guy via threats of violence and racism.

The recording of this interaction gets posted to a blog and creates 'two sides'./ One side calls itself 'moral' while advocating mob rule and censorship. The other side is somehow immoral for advocating the principles of freedom of speech, adult responsibility and keeping a video game in context.

It's the people calling for Erotica1s head when that player didn't break any rules who are the real problem here, yet they are too busy pretending that they are the good folk to notice.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#107 - 2014-03-25 13:03:04 UTC
Malcolm from Marketing wrote:


Your counter arguments are empty of content and pathetic at best.

Your point out Erotica broke no rules or laws, your quite correct. What he has done can be likened to bringing the game into disrepute by going above and beyond to push the boundaries of whats acceptable in the name of emergent gameplay.
CCP should consider very carefully if this is the type of behavior they want associated with their game as it's treading very dangerous grounds.
Ignoring all that, it's simply a case of morals, ( ironic in a game such as EVE i know ) yes its a game, yes he was a willing participant but that still doesnt excuse what's happened and has happened many times previous.

CCP should remove ALL his assets over ALL his accounts and give him a temp ban. Thats the right course of action in this case, but of course thats not what your interested in is it.


I'll ask again. How could CCP resist religious groups or the Russian government if they demanded that CCP remove people who engage in "unacceptable" behaviour that "bring the game into disrepute"?

After all, "it's simply a case of morals", right?


As soon as CCP have conceded the right of any group to demand the removal of a player simply because they dislike what he does out of game, then they're wide open to every pressure group out there who thinks they have a duty to make sure you and I live our lives as they think we should.

"it's simply a case of morals"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Salvos Rhoska
#108 - 2014-03-25 13:03:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Perhaps one day I will open a newspaper and read an article about how a disgruntled player hunts down and murders a player infamously known for griefing.


I've mentioned this before, but I was actually stalked at one point by someone I "griefed" in a videogame. They sent me a link with a picture of my front door on it.

How do you feel about that?


I think you should be very careful how you choose to treat people.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#109 - 2014-03-25 13:03:45 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Perhaps one day I will open a newspaper and read an article about how a disgruntled player hunts down and murders a player infamously known for griefing. Or, hopefully not, an article about how a disgruntled player upset by how he/she perceives the community/company to have treated him at large, and go AWOL at a Fanfest.

These are potential risks you know. Should be careful how far you push people and what you allow.

We already had the suicidal guy in the Mittani incident.
Not like this kind of thing is not without precedent.


The funny thing is that it probably burns you to know that this doesn't happen. EVE players even gather in person (fanfest, EVE down under, EVE Vegas ect ect) and no one dies or even gets a paper cut.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#110 - 2014-03-25 13:05:09 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Perhaps one day I will open a newspaper and read an article about how a disgruntled player hunts down and murders a player infamously known for griefing.


I've mentioned this before, but I was actually stalked at one point by someone I "griefed" in a videogame. They sent me a link with a picture of my front door on it.

How do you feel about that?


I think you should be very careful how you choose to treat people.


Yea, don't treat people harshly in a video game that gives you guns. I'll bet you also play paintball but don't shoot at people because that would be mean right?
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#111 - 2014-03-25 13:06:01 UTC
What is this? ISBOXER erotica foruming.

Makes me sad to be a part of this community Though I know most have been abused and unloved themselves. Those who hold the opinion to torture abuse and hate each other are not speaking with their own mind. Actually they speak of significant peoples in their lives opinions of themselves.
Salvos Rhoska
#112 - 2014-03-25 13:06:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
The funny thing is that it probably burns you to know that this doesn't happen.

Why would that burn me. And why would it be funny.

Get a grip on your nonsense.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#113 - 2014-03-25 13:06:55 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Perhaps one day I will open a newspaper and read an article about how a disgruntled player hunts down and murders a player infamously known for griefing.


I've mentioned this before, but I was actually stalked at one point by someone I "griefed" in a videogame. They sent me a link with a picture of my front door on it.

How do you feel about that?


I think you should be very careful how you choose to treat people.


Yeah Kaarous its apparently your fault you got stalked, which is a balanced way of dealing with an issue in a videogame Roll

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#114 - 2014-03-25 13:07:14 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Perhaps one day I will open a newspaper and read an article about how a disgruntled player hunts down and murders a player infamously known for griefing.


I've mentioned this before, but I was actually stalked at one point by someone I "griefed" in a videogame. They sent me a link with a picture of my front door on it.

How do you feel about that?


I think you should be very careful how you choose to treat people.


Lol, "blaming the victim", right out of the mouth of a White Knight himself. Delicious.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#115 - 2014-03-25 13:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Chribba
Buck Futz wrote:
Chribba wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:
And, now, having read the actual blog....
I'm quite convinced that Ripard is the intolerable sort that whines to the coach when he gets hazed by his team-members in the men's locker room.

Of course this is theoretical.
Because it would require Ripard actually setting foot in a men's locker room for something other than pilates or yoga.
You know, something that doesn't require stretchy see-through pants.

And this is exactly this kind of replies that doesn't push the world and community towards a better place.

But hey it's easier being a douche than being nice to people...

/c
I guess in /c's world, douchbag-ism is only reserved for people who 'aren't like him'.
Actually I was calling you out for being derogatory towards Ripard - which has absolutely nothing to do with "nothing like me" part. It's the example of why you did not criticize the post rather than saying there's something wrong with a guy doing yoga or pilates - because those have lots to do with the discussion at hand right?

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2014-03-25 13:08:16 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Sentamon wrote:
Dude is freaking out over $20? Hopefully he sees a mental health professional.

If you think its the 20bucks he's freaking over, and not how he is being treated, it might be you who hopefully sees a mental health professional.


I've dealt with people like Erotica and friends my whole life, you laugh at them and walk away. Completely going apeshit like that is unnatural and extremely dangerous, yes the man needs help and hopefully gets some.


I have been on TS for 4-5 bonus rounds and several of the contestants have fetched guitars or other musical instruments to aid the singing portion and one guy (who sadly lost) said that the bonus round was the most exciting thing that had happened to him in EVE.
I have also seen miners who have been ganked respond with huge bile and IRL threats.
People get conned over joining null blocks /super sales etc all the time and i have no doubt a deranged few of those get equally unhinged.
EvE is a game all about loss. It is a players own choice how much of his/her assets they wish to risk in any one endeavour but to go completely nuts over being scammed /ganked / held hostage / station camped /anything else that eve throughs at you is very disturbing. If you can't cope with the loss of space pixels then you need some sort of help or at the least to stop playing eve.

This debate is full of one side calling the other mentally ill and always has been but from the ganker /scammer /legit isk doubler side i suspect that many of them have a kind of car crash mentality. Witnessing something shocking (in this case the over the top reactions) and not being able to look away.
I didn't listen to this recording for the same reason i stopped listening to the bonus rounds. They go on too long and i have better thing to do.

Eve is a better place with scammers , spies, thieves, awoxers, pirates, traitors etc. Without the value of well placed trust and the costs of misplaced trust eve would be a fairly poor game.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Salvos Rhoska
#117 - 2014-03-25 13:09:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lol, "blaming the victim", right out of the mouth of a White Knight himself. Delicious.

I didnt blame you.

You asked how I felt about it. I felt that if someone is taking photos of your home, you should probably be very careful how you treat them.

Reread what I said :)

I know its hard, and that you have an agenda here and its very very important to you though this is all just a game.
But TRY to read accurately. Otherwise, you come off as an idiot :)

But yes, if youve deliberately managed to **** someone off that is so mentally unstable as to actually find out where you live, then I think you done f****d up, and its your own fault.

Not my problem. You did it yourself. Don't cry to me when the **** you've done suddenly turns up on your own doorstep to bite you back.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Tyburn Stannis
Xenon Salvage Inc.
#118 - 2014-03-25 13:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyburn Stannis
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


I've mentioned this before, but I was actually stalked at one point by someone I "griefed" in a videogame. They sent me a link with a picture of my front door on it.

How do you feel about that?


[retracted] Obvious troll is obvious.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#119 - 2014-03-25 13:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Tyburn Stannis wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


I've mentioned this before, but I was actually stalked at one point by someone I "griefed" in a videogame. They sent me a link with a picture of my front door on it.

How do you feel about that?


[retracted] Obvious troll is obvious.

Too slow. You wrote: "I feel you didn't take enough care to separate your online and real identities, and that you underestimated the effects of your actions. And that your case is a perfect example of how many people don't understand the "paper trail" they leave online. "



Unlike some, I have backed my opinions with my identity.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcolm from Marketing
Klaatu Technologies
#120 - 2014-03-25 13:12:57 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


I'll ask again. How could CCP resist religious groups or the Russian government if they demanded that CCP remove people who engage in "unacceptable" behaviour that "bring the game into disrepute"?

After all, "it's simply a case of morals", right?


As soon as CCP have conceded the right of any group to demand the removal of a player simply because they dislike what he does out of game, then they're wide open to every pressure group out there who thinks they have a duty to make sure you and I live our lives as they think we should.

"it's simply a case of morals"


I recall CCP found their morals pretty easily when Mittens stepped out of line at Fan fest.
Did he break any laws? No.
Did he break any in game rules? No.

Was what he did morally reprehensible on every level? Yes

This scenario with Erotica, while different in it's approach, boils down to the same basic elements and should be taken seriously by CCP.