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Jester Trek Latest Blog

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Xander Delacroix
Doomheim
#61 - 2014-03-25 12:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Delacroix
Malcanis wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Here is Jesters latest Blog

http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/the-bonus-round.html

As you can probably tell it is to do with Erotica 1's bonus round.

It is a very damning blog.

I can only surmise that Jester has brought the subject up with CCP and was not happy with there response which thus led him to create this blog. (Many apologise if I am wrong)

I would be very interested to hear what the community at large thinks and perhaps for Erotica and friends to refute the claims being made that they actually enjoy the pain and humiliation that they cause, especially to the man in the recording linked in Jesters Blog.


Is it CCP's responsibility to police out of game interaction between their players where no law has been broken?

If so, where does that responsibility end? Should they ban a player when his wife complains about him playing EVE instead of doing the chores?

If I hook up with another EVE player who happens to be from say Japan, should CCP have the right and duty to ban me if the GM involved disapproves of inter-racial relationships? What about homosexual relationships?

What if I encourage another player to log in to fleet and miss church on sunday?

Where exactly does CCP's "responsibility" end?



Malcanis, for someone who is on the CSM you seem to be seriously missing the big picture here. Even if your supposition is true that since this happened outside of Eve itself, and therefore isn't CCP's responsibility, it was instigated in-game and it involved in-game assets. However, the big picture here is not just the reality of the situation, but rather the perception of the reality. Eve is already considered by many prospective players as being a harsh and unforgiving environment; great for all the budding pirates who think they're ruthless and feared, not so great for bringing in new players (oh yeah, and bringing in subscribers to pay for things like development). If this news breaks it's way into wider social media, possibly going viral (which is entirely possible), then Eve suddenly appears to be an incredibly toxic environment. CCP would then be forced to defend themselves, not just to us, but to the world at large. Let's face it, CCP is a business. Bad media coverage and a toxic reputation is bad for business. This means they'll have no choice but to intervene in-game if they want their business to survive. This means much more stringent and harsh restrictions being put on what people in the sandbox can do, whether you like it or not. CCP not addressing this issue now, before it gets out of hand, and in a much more reasonable way, is bad for business.
Salvos Rhoska
#62 - 2014-03-25 12:29:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Hands up everyone who can see a problem


Hands up everyone who thinks Erotica1 should be banned for this horrific conduct.

My hand is raised.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#63 - 2014-03-25 12:30:54 UTC
Tuscor wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Hands up everyone who can see a problem with demanding the CCP ban people on the basis of "They haven't broken any game rules, and they haven't broken any laws, but I find them personally distasteful"




... tentatively puts hand up ...

but I still want Erotica to stop, or for the rules to be changed to make that kind of behaviour against the rules.


So do something about it. Publicise the scam. Interfere with his operations. Find out who his alts are and gank them. If you see someone talking to him in local, convo them with a warning. Anchor GSCs with a warning and a link to Jester's article.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tuscor
13.
#64 - 2014-03-25 12:32:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tuscor wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tuscor wrote:
Just ban Erotica1. The community does not need poisonous twats like that - and I for one am happy for the sandbox and 'emergent gameplay' to take second seat to cleaning the community of such filth.


People talk about gays in very similar terms to the ones you have used in your post.

Come to that, so have insane monogonadal austrian dictators.



Sure, and for many years that was considered an acceptable way to treat/speak about homosexuals. That is thankfully changing.

But dont try and compare this to homophobia, or german dictators for god's sake! Discriminating and vilifying minority groups is not the same as disliking and calling for action against a bullying sociopath...


Can you give me a reliable method of distinguishing them that doesn't boil down to "stuff that you personally dislike"?

I find brussels sprouts disgusting; just the thought of them makes me heave a little. Can I petition to get someone banned because they post recipes for them in local?

If not, then you're saying that only the things you find disgusting are a problem. Things I find disgusting and things evengelical christians find disgusting are just fine, however. Am I right?

Far simpler for CCP to not try and be 400,000 people's mom and stay the hell out of our out of game activities, don't you think?


You argue well - but I still think that there is an issue with the fact that the person in question was located in eve, and the whole thing centred around his eve experience (ie all his stuff being contracted, etc). I totally hear what you are saying about likes and dislikes being subjective.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#65 - 2014-03-25 12:32:45 UTC
Xander Delacroix wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Here is Jesters latest Blog

http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/the-bonus-round.html

As you can probably tell it is to do with Erotica 1's bonus round.

It is a very damning blog.

I can only surmise that Jester has brought the subject up with CCP and was not happy with there response which thus led him to create this blog. (Many apologise if I am wrong)

I would be very interested to hear what the community at large thinks and perhaps for Erotica and friends to refute the claims being made that they actually enjoy the pain and humiliation that they cause, especially to the man in the recording linked in Jesters Blog.


Is it CCP's responsibility to police out of game interaction between their players where no law has been broken?

If so, where does that responsibility end? Should they ban a player when his wife complains about him playing EVE instead of doing the chores?

If I hook up with another EVE player who happens to be from say Japan, should CCP have the right and duty to ban me if the GM involved disapproves of inter-racial relationships? What about homosexual relationships?

What if I encourage another player to log in to fleet and miss church on sunday?

Where exactly does CCP's "responsibility" end?



Malcanis, for someone who is on the CSM you seem to be seriously missing the big picture here. Even if your supposition is true that since this happened outside of Eve itself, and therefore isn't CCP's responsibility, it was instigated in-game and it involved in-game assets. However, the big picture here is not just the reality of the situation, but rather the perception of the reality. Eve is already considered by many prospective players as being a harsh and unforgiving environment; great for all the budding pirates who think they're ruthless and feared, not so great for bringing in new players (oh yeah, and bringing in subscribers to pay for things like development). If this news breaks it's way into wider social media, possibly going viral (which is entirely possible), then Eve suddenly appears to be an incredibly toxic environment. CCP would then be forced to defend themselves, not just to us, but to the world at large. Let's face it, CCP is a business. Bad media coverage and a toxic reputation is bad for business. This means they'll have no choice but to intervene in-game if they want their business to survive. This means much more stringent and harsh restrictions being put on what people in the sandbox can do, whether you like it or not. CCP not addressing this issue is bad for business.


So you'd be in favour of CCP banning people who start homosexual relationships after meeting through EVE if it looked like religious groups or the Russian government started making a fuss about it?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#66 - 2014-03-25 12:33:22 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
See, when I read the title, I thought it had to do with him jumping off the deep end, and telling us all that EVE is dying because of Dungeons and Dragons.

Now to read this newest offering.



If that's what you got from his posts you should train up reading comprehension a bit more


That, or some of us need to read between the lines. Either one works.

Because if you somehow think that an enormously overblown reaction to a teenage suicide in the 70s actually had anything to do with TSR's financial woes of the time, (instead of, you know, putting out a large number of poor selling products like Terrible Swift Sword, which took 3 hours to assemble, and 5 to play) then I have a bridge to sell you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2014-03-25 12:33:44 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Hands up everyone who can see a problem with demanding the CCP ban people on the basis of "They haven't broken any game rules, and they haven't broken any laws, but I find them personally distasteful"


as they say ... the road to hell is paved with good intentions

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Xander Delacroix
Doomheim
#68 - 2014-03-25 12:34:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Xander Delacroix wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Here is Jesters latest Blog

http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/the-bonus-round.html

As you can probably tell it is to do with Erotica 1's bonus round.

It is a very damning blog.

I can only surmise that Jester has brought the subject up with CCP and was not happy with there response which thus led him to create this blog. (Many apologise if I am wrong)

I would be very interested to hear what the community at large thinks and perhaps for Erotica and friends to refute the claims being made that they actually enjoy the pain and humiliation that they cause, especially to the man in the recording linked in Jesters Blog.


Is it CCP's responsibility to police out of game interaction between their players where no law has been broken?

If so, where does that responsibility end? Should they ban a player when his wife complains about him playing EVE instead of doing the chores?

If I hook up with another EVE player who happens to be from say Japan, should CCP have the right and duty to ban me if the GM involved disapproves of inter-racial relationships? What about homosexual relationships?

What if I encourage another player to log in to fleet and miss church on sunday?

Where exactly does CCP's "responsibility" end?



Malcanis, for someone who is on the CSM you seem to be seriously missing the big picture here. Even if your supposition is true that since this happened outside of Eve itself, and therefore isn't CCP's responsibility, it was instigated in-game and it involved in-game assets. However, the big picture here is not just the reality of the situation, but rather the perception of the reality. Eve is already considered by many prospective players as being a harsh and unforgiving environment; great for all the budding pirates who think they're ruthless and feared, not so great for bringing in new players (oh yeah, and bringing in subscribers to pay for things like development). If this news breaks it's way into wider social media, possibly going viral (which is entirely possible), then Eve suddenly appears to be an incredibly toxic environment. CCP would then be forced to defend themselves, not just to us, but to the world at large. Let's face it, CCP is a business. Bad media coverage and a toxic reputation is bad for business. This means they'll have no choice but to intervene in-game if they want their business to survive. This means much more stringent and harsh restrictions being put on what people in the sandbox can do, whether you like it or not. CCP not addressing this issue is bad for business.


So you'd be in favour of CCP banning people who start homosexual relationships after meeting through EVE if it looked like religious groups or the Russian government started making a fuss about it?



Missing. The. Point. Entirely.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#69 - 2014-03-25 12:34:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Listen, Sohkar is my Alliance.

He got what he deserved.

If I wasnt being restrained he'd have got more.

End of.


I can give you what you deserve.
Do you want it?


Yeah, you can pay the Isk directly into my account, thanks.

But if you want to bring it, you can do so AND serve alongside Sokhar, just join my Alliance.

Love to have you.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
horrific conduct.


Just try not to be "transfixed with terror" when you read more of Erotica1's exploits.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#70 - 2014-03-25 12:35:55 UTC
Xander Delacroix wrote:


Missing. The. Point. Entirely.


You are, actually.

The point he's making is that the slippery slope of arbitrary bannings for something "distasteful" is FAR worse than the supposed slippery slope of "cyber bullying" that Ripard Teg is trying to make the case for.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#71 - 2014-03-25 12:36:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
See, when I read the title, I thought it had to do with him jumping off the deep end, and telling us all that EVE is dying because of Dungeons and Dragons.

Now to read this newest offering.



If that's what you got from his posts you should train up reading comprehension a bit more


That, or some of us need to read between the lines. Either one works.

Because if you somehow think that an enormously overblown reaction to a teenage suicide in the 70s actually had anything to do with TSR's financial woes of the time, (instead of, you know, putting out a large number of poor selling products like Terrible Swift Sword, which took 3 hours to assemble, and 5 to play) then I have a bridge to sell you.


Your knowledge of early fantasy roleplaying and caustic wit are doing funny things to me

+12

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#72 - 2014-03-25 12:38:24 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
See, when I read the title, I thought it had to do with him jumping off the deep end, and telling us all that EVE is dying because of Dungeons and Dragons.

Now to read this newest offering.



If that's what you got from his posts you should train up reading comprehension a bit more


That, or some of us need to read between the lines. Either one works.

Because if you somehow think that an enormously overblown reaction to a teenage suicide in the 70s actually had anything to do with TSR's financial woes of the time, (instead of, you know, putting out a large number of poor selling products like Terrible Swift Sword, which took 3 hours to assemble, and 5 to play) then I have a bridge to sell you.


Your knowledge of early fantasy roleplaying and caustic wit are doing funny things to me

+12


Thank you.

I'm only good at 3 things, and those are 2 of them.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Salvos Rhoska
#73 - 2014-03-25 12:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Love to have you.

Out of game. Just as the recording was :)

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#74 - 2014-03-25 12:40:27 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
See, when I read the title, I thought it had to do with him jumping off the deep end, and telling us all that EVE is dying because of Dungeons and Dragons.

Now to read this newest offering.



If that's what you got from his posts you should train up reading comprehension a bit more


That, or some of us need to read between the lines. Either one works.

Because if you somehow think that an enormously overblown reaction to a teenage suicide in the 70s actually had anything to do with TSR's financial woes of the time, (instead of, you know, putting out a large number of poor selling products like Terrible Swift Sword, which took 3 hours to assemble, and 5 to play) then I have a bridge to sell you.


What you are offering me for buying that bridge from you?

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#75 - 2014-03-25 12:40:48 UTC
Xander Delacroix wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Xander Delacroix wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Here is Jesters latest Blog

http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/the-bonus-round.html

As you can probably tell it is to do with Erotica 1's bonus round.

It is a very damning blog.

I can only surmise that Jester has brought the subject up with CCP and was not happy with there response which thus led him to create this blog. (Many apologise if I am wrong)

I would be very interested to hear what the community at large thinks and perhaps for Erotica and friends to refute the claims being made that they actually enjoy the pain and humiliation that they cause, especially to the man in the recording linked in Jesters Blog.


Is it CCP's responsibility to police out of game interaction between their players where no law has been broken?

If so, where does that responsibility end? Should they ban a player when his wife complains about him playing EVE instead of doing the chores?

If I hook up with another EVE player who happens to be from say Japan, should CCP have the right and duty to ban me if the GM involved disapproves of inter-racial relationships? What about homosexual relationships?

What if I encourage another player to log in to fleet and miss church on sunday?

Where exactly does CCP's "responsibility" end?



Malcanis, for someone who is on the CSM you seem to be seriously missing the big picture here. Even if your supposition is true that since this happened outside of Eve itself, and therefore isn't CCP's responsibility, it was instigated in-game and it involved in-game assets. However, the big picture here is not just the reality of the situation, but rather the perception of the reality. Eve is already considered by many prospective players as being a harsh and unforgiving environment; great for all the budding pirates who think they're ruthless and feared, not so great for bringing in new players (oh yeah, and bringing in subscribers to pay for things like development). If this news breaks it's way into wider social media, possibly going viral (which is entirely possible), then Eve suddenly appears to be an incredibly toxic environment. CCP would then be forced to defend themselves, not just to us, but to the world at large. Let's face it, CCP is a business. Bad media coverage and a toxic reputation is bad for business. This means they'll have no choice but to intervene in-game if they want their business to survive. This means much more stringent and harsh restrictions being put on what people in the sandbox can do, whether you like it or not. CCP not addressing this issue is bad for business.


So you'd be in favour of CCP banning people who start homosexual relationships after meeting through EVE if it looked like religious groups or the Russian government started making a fuss about it?



Missing. The. Point. Entirely.


It's exactly the point. He's arguing that CCP should ban people who have broken no game rules or national laws purely on the basis of bad publicity to protect their cashflow.

"Let's face it, CCP is a business. Bad media coverage and a toxic reputation is bad for business."

Russia has an aggressively homophobic government right now. A large percentage of EVE's players are Russian. If the Russian government demands that CCP "cleanse the community of this filth" by banning gay players who have broken no rule or law, then what argument would apply to resist this demand?

Principles aren't tested by easy cases. They're tested by the unpleasant, distasteful, unsympathetic cases.

Do accused child rapists get a defense lawyer when they're tried in court? Yes they do, even though no one wants to defend them them. Supporting the child rapist's right to fair treatment and due process is MY guarantee of MY right to fair treatment if I should ever be accused of anything.

Personally I don't care much at all for what erotica1 does. But since he's very carefully stayed within the rules and he very carefully obeys the law, and most especially since no element of compulsion applies, then he's entitled to due process.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#76 - 2014-03-25 12:41:02 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Love to have you.

Out of game. Just as the recording was :)


You... want me to HAVE you out of game?

Didn't think you'd be into that sort of thing.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Xander Delacroix
Doomheim
#77 - 2014-03-25 12:41:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Xander Delacroix wrote:


Missing. The. Point. Entirely.


You are, actually.

The point he's making is that the slippery slope of arbitrary bannings for something "distasteful" is FAR worse than the supposed slippery slope of "cyber bullying" that Ripard Teg is trying to make the case for.



What you call distasteful, I call morally reprehensible; but "tomahto-tomayto". Nevertheless, my point, if anyone bothered to read it, is that bad press leads to declining business leading to CCP losing money leading to Eve eventually going the way of so many other MMO's = no sandbox for Erotica1 and his ilk to indulge their "appetites" (oh and the rest of us losing out along the way too).
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#78 - 2014-03-25 12:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
So, I just went and listened to the whole thing. I admit, I LoL'd, and without guilt after the 'victim' demonstrated that he is racist. I didn't hear one person say "I am under 18".

I did hear a guy say he was married (suggesting he was grown) between threatening people, slamming keyboards around and other crazy crap.

As a black man (don't let the white girl avatar fool you lol), I'm more offended by the 'victims' racial abuse (brought on when someone else identified himself as Afro-Canadian) than I am anything Erotica did. It is the 'victim' who should be banned on that basis alone if anyone is.

I guess all these people who think in game scamming is bad think in game racism is ok.....

Although , again, though I was appalled by the victims racism, I did lol again when he told the one guy to shut up and let him speak to his 'Masta'.....
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#79 - 2014-03-25 12:42:37 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Love to have you.

Out of game. Just as the recording was :)


You... want me to HAVE you out of game?

Didn't think you'd be into that sort of thing.


Didn't think I could ever say this about this thread in particular, but this took a dark turn...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#80 - 2014-03-25 12:45:20 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Love to have you.

Out of game. Just as the recording was :)


You... want me to HAVE you out of game?

Didn't think you'd be into that sort of thing.
It takes all sorts..

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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