Player Features and Ideas Discussion

a way to create a deadspace room to give miners even more time to detect incoming baddies?

or a way to erect a POS and then restrict the only ships that can reach it to medium size?

or a way to make space that is impossible to reach by having FC assigned as 'gate keeper' (lol) and then cloak up?

indeed, pointing out the glaringly obvious flaws in this idea was a biased reaction because of my griefing attitude. oh wait...im a miner.



no they arent that fast. and thats a good thing and balanced. but why do u need even more time to see ur enemy in local or d-scan?

if i cant slow boat it to the accel gate in time, why dnt i just log off in space? or slow boat into the POS?



if u expect this to create medium vs medium fights, u'd be wrong. whats to stop the owners erecting a POS and then building battleships then restricting the gates to small ships only?

do u know how long it takes to siege a POS in battleships? how long do u suppose it takes in frigates and dessies? and defenders can bring larger ships and logi than u?

where this kind of thing happens in WH's, where the lowest restriction is BC sized and defenders can build larger ships with the POS, u can build a force in a WH over a matter of days quite covertly. how do u expect ppl to do this, not only while appearing in local, but also on grid!?

edit- and as i understand it, even in a C1, u can still get connections from other WH systems that will allow the largest of ships through. This would not be the case with ur accel gates



i did consider ur idea. did u?

cause i seem to see problems u didnt.

even if the idea is not to hunt miners, they should still be hunted if ppl want to hunt them.

u say this drives conflict, but it allows miners to avoid conflict more easily. Not only do they have more time to react to an enemy presence because they have to go through accel gates, i can delay them with alts sitting in cheap heavily tanked ships like punishers and Mallers, and i can restrict the size of the ships they use to make sure they take as long as possible getting past the noob fleet.

fat chance of any suicide ganker getting in there, so i can just max yield fit my covetors/hulks and just send a miasmos in and out. completely removing the meaningful choice made by the barge rebalance.

so the miners are meant to compete with eachother for the resources? but competitors cant warp to it unless they declare war and clear the defending fleet. thats not really competition, thats first come first serve.

making deadspace pockets for player use is fine. the point at which the idea crumbles is when ur stuff inside is not vulnerable 24/7 (otherwise whats the point in the extra defense and warning time), and u can restrict the ships other players can take and prevent them warping in until the destruction of a guardian fleet.

if u truly want to drive conflict and have miners fight eachother for resources, make entering such sites, and ore sites as well, cause u to go suspect. allow any ship of any size in at any time, regardless of defending fleet.



moronic statements like this arent going to help u make any kind of point. if someone logs off before i get there, shucks. no biggy.

if someone is afforded more time to see me and react to my presence because of some half baked idea, then its a problem. why do u think ppl should have even more time to react to the presence of a bad guy?

attacking ppls industry is a thing.

in world wars do they say 'dnt blow up the factories making their tanks and planes'? or do they say 'dnt attack that convoy crossing the atlantic?' no. quite the opposite.

every ship must be vulnerable as long as its undocked/uncloaked. yes, this is that type of game. and thats why i focus on it. why do u focus so much on making safe areas in a game that deliberately makes sure there are no safe areas (look at my sig). This game is driven by conflict, centred around ships blowing up, glorified as a HTFU-adapt or die-surivial of the fittest mad max style universe. why do u keep wanting to dumb it down where there is no risk for ppl, to where they dnt have to watch over themselves, protect themselves, to learn to survive?

if ur idea was implemented, a hoard of max yield miners would be 100% safe. this is a horrible thought. Suicide ganking is a thing, it has always been a thing, it should always be a thing. Never at any second in this game should u be able to relax under the certainty that u will not be attacked at any moment.

There is already space where factions can struggle to hold assets and territory worth defending. Null sec! WH's! go mine there and have ur buddies defend u there.

all ur creating here is an extra-advanced warning system, exclusivity for mining belts and 100% safe space to mine in.

to which the answer is: hell no.

Also... With the way it is set up, who cares how safe a horde of max yeild miners are, if they cannot move the minerals?

If you use gates that can handle freighters, they can also handle other capitals, which means you can attack with essentially anything you want. If you restrict traffic to smaller hulls, then its smaller ships doing the hauling too, and they still have to pass the exit gate to an easily scannable and camped point in open space. Either way, the industry isnt safe, but the bulk of combat has been channeled to combat craft.

It creates actual fights instead of leaving all of the initiative and advantage to hunters and all the risk on prey.

no what bothers me is that u can gather resources with no risk. where is the risk/reward? or even the work/reward? where is the competition?

spell it out for me. where is the risk these miners are taking to get such a reward? what work are they putting into it, in detail, that affords them such safety?

why cant i just put a maller or two on the gate to prevent other miners coming in, and suicide gankers coming in so that, if i am not war decced, i can happily mine in complete safety with max yield hulks and pull ore out with a stabbed-miasmos or freighter? And even if i am war decced, i get such an advanced warning that the new changes to interceptors is meaningless to me. u say the exit may be camped, but how? how do u find the exit? And whats stopping ppl from using neutral alts to haul ore out during a dec? Whats stopping using neutral alts from being the guardians protecting the gate so they cannot be attacked during a dec?

why do u think its ok to make an area of ore for urself that no one else can have access to? why do u think first come first serve is ok? why shouldnt other miners come in and start mining the rocks as well, or muscle u out in some way? thats the competition and conflict.

u have this agenda, to make hi-sec so safe that ppl dnt have to watch their backs in case of gankers. To make this area of space urs without having to work for it, all u need to do is be the first one there. u keep saying the way to drive conflict is to make something worth while defending, but ur wrong. If u dec the miners that own these areas, they will dock up all the same. the defending fleets will not be formed up of guardians protecting the miners, they will be alts in big fat tanks designed to delay intruders for as long as possible so that ppl can safely log off or bail out.

this idea will not go down the way u think it will.



fine, make everyone inside a suspect, or at the very least, shooting ppl inside it incurs only a suspect flag. assets are fought over whether theres a dec or not. Drop the restrictions to gates so it doesnt become yet another 'who brings the most T3's wins' meta. ppl who really want it can try to defend it. this way u get what u want and no one enjoys effortless 100% risk free mining.

This doesn't answer the problem of creating large amounts (in volume or value) of resource that oinly large corps/alliances will be able to farm.. I thought people already disliked ares of null for this reason? These deadspace areas would just be mini versions.to create more combat you need to draw people in to combat oriented regions and reward them for coming in (if they succeed at whatever task they are trying to accomplish).

These areas will be locked down to anyone other than larger corps/alliances.

My baseline for an idea such as this is whether everybody has access (albeit at more risk). With this idea I can't see that being the case.

I am not sure I understand your base for concern. The effect of defensive fleets locking down areas of space already exists, as you point out. On that level all this does is provide a focal point that isnt a gate or station to fight in. The larger the group, the less important any given individual source of income becomes, and the less locked down a given site will be in favor of defending the open space it is found in.

In that scenario, the only thing keeping you out of the valuable area of the pocket is the fleet left to defend it. Kill it, the gate unlocks and you are free to move on and inflict damage, steal resources or even set up your own defense of the pocket for the incoming response as you choose. For a large alliance this would actually be harder to defend than open space as they would have to bridge in system and still get their fleet to and through the gate you already crashed, unless it was important enough for them to leave more than a token defense inside as a defensive fleet in the first place.... Which means that they are not elsewhere ready to bridge out on a moments notice and can be pinned and fought in place or delayed while action is taken elsewhere by bubbling the exit.

My point is that in any area of resource an individual in a correctly fitted ship can gather resources if they use their head...hopping WH's in a venture into null and refitting through a mobile depot for mining, cloaking up if anyone happens by for instance. With this idea anyone wishing to exploit the area must defeat the fleet defending it. There is no way to slip by and ninja gather the resources. In a sense you may as well grab an area of losec, set up your pos's and defend that with your fleet. At least then everyone has a chance to gather the resources, but with increasing risk the fewer of you there are.

Also if such complexes are in systems where bubbles (interdiction spheres I assume this is?) can be used doesn't this mean the defending fleet can cyno in reserves as needed?

My understanding of losec/null fleet and combat mechanics is limited so please feel free to correct me :)

OK, These complexes would be analogous with combat sites I guess? The gate does not allow you to pass until the defending fleet is dead. So I have an interceptor with nanos, MWD etc etc assigned as defender and nobody can catch it...gate remains locked and the 'owning' miners are at nil risk.

The locked gate thing only works on combat anoms since anyone can go into a given room once the gate is unlocked, therefore competition remains...with this proposal an attacking fleet gets tied at the gate for however long whilst the miners eat the extra valuable ore inside. If it is high volume lower isk goods in the complex this makes it more likely to be blockaded by large corps, if low volume hi value then this means you don't need to blockade the gate for very long to reap massive rewards.

Personally I prefer the Dinsdale Phenomena idea or the comet/ring mining ideas. With those everybody gets a shot at them at all times.