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[Rubicon 1.3] T1 Frigate and Cruiser Balance Pass

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The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#301 - 2014-03-11 22:57:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ransu Asanari wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of the Breacher ROF change. Having the damage bonus not be type-specific meant it was one of the few ships that could actually use the missile advantage of selectable damage, and was very versatile. I really enjoyed flying the Breacher during the Stay Frosty Frigate FFA and used this to great effect.

Changing this to a ROF bonus feels like a nerf, since it means you're doing less damage between reloads and you're running out of ammo faster.


I think you'll find that the increase in dps will be significant enough to more than balance out the more common reloads.


The DPS increase is tiny: 105.26% vs 105.00%

I don't think that 0.26% extra damage over time is going to swing any fights. What is relevent is that the Breacher will get it's extra volley in more often.
At level 5, the damage bonus is 125% dps and the ROF bonus is 133% dps. The ROF bonus is like, 30% stronger relative to the previous damage bonus.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#302 - 2014-03-11 23:09:40 UTC
factor in reload times. with rockets, you will almost certainly always be reloading, because ccp hates fun.
Flaming Forum Spammer
Doomheim
#303 - 2014-03-12 00:07:19 UTC
Please,

Tormentor Rocket bonus

Maller HAM bonus

Give us a reason to train missile skills early rather than at BC
Jade III
Sebiestor Tribe
#304 - 2014-03-12 03:09:29 UTC
Kity Rifters all the way man :D

My adventure blog: http://lonewolfadventures.wordpress.com/
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#305 - 2014-03-12 03:22:18 UTC
Riftawolves everywhere!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Beverly Sparks
DEATH'S LEGION
#306 - 2014-03-12 12:08:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Beverly Sparks
I fly the breacher almost exclusively. The Rate of fire "buff" is a nerf disguised as a buff, but it's really a nerf.

A) You'll burn out faster (less overheating)
B) You'll be reloading nonstop and yes frig fights where you do more than one load happen way more than you think.
C) The on paper damage won't even increase that much

As for the rifter: Rifter sucks ass live with it. Fallof bonus will make it even weaker to one of it's current weakness. Close orbit.

Also go ahead fit arty to a rifter, the arty tail needs dual webs to be somewhat effecient and it has a tracking bonus. The arty wolf has a tracking bonus and at the range it wants to be you can pretty easily mitigate allot of it's dps in an ab frig... So what will the rifter do????

CCP remove a low or a high from the punisher and put it in the mids instead of silly pg, mass and speed changes....

Most important thing i see here in the combat frigs is the speed change to the breacher wich is really good.

Grtz,
Bev
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#307 - 2014-03-12 12:33:55 UTC
Why fit arties to the rifter?

Give it 200mm's and a couple of ambits (i.e pretty standard rifter rigs) and you get 19+km with barrage.

The falloff bonus is a direct buff to the rifter damage projection. This is a good thing. 150mm's track well standard and now hit out to scram range with faction ammo. means the scram kite rifter is better able to keep kiting and hitting for more damage. Buff all round.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Beverly Sparks
DEATH'S LEGION
#308 - 2014-03-12 12:51:38 UTC
All I'm saying is that it's not a big enough buff. It's at most where it was before in my opinion, maybe a bit better.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#309 - 2014-03-12 13:00:51 UTC
Beverly Sparks wrote:
All I'm saying is that it's not a big enough buff. It's at most where it was before in my opinion, maybe a bit better.


The problem you have with the rifter is that it has such a cult following within eve. So everyone 'wants' it to be uber powerful. I like where it's at now. More after the buff. It will be powerful but not OP. This is good. Cool

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Beverly Sparks
DEATH'S LEGION
#310 - 2014-03-12 13:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Beverly Sparks
And I'll have my fun permatanking the silly low dps of a deepfalloff rifter...

Also the rifterfanboys cult is a relic from the past.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#311 - 2014-03-12 15:05:50 UTC
Beverly Sparks wrote:




CCP remove a low or a high from the punisher and put it in the mids instead of silly pg, mass and speed changes....


Grtz,
Bev


^THIS
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#312 - 2014-03-12 15:07:59 UTC
also, i bet a kiting rifter wouldnt survive to an amarr ship using gatling pulses/ quad light beams II even with T1 Ammo
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#313 - 2014-03-12 15:28:11 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
also, i bet a kiting rifter wouldnt survive to an amarr ship using gatling pulses/ quad light beams II even with T1 Ammo

So... get in under the guns? You have 3 mids, and are likely faster. Use your speed and your range control to get in close. Even without the tracking bonus you still out-track lasers. Even Gatling Pulse II's have .308125 rad/s tracking and the 200mm Autocannon II's have .315. The disparity is even larger with higher tier lasers and lower tier AC's.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#314 - 2014-03-12 15:31:25 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
also, i bet a kiting rifter wouldnt survive to an amarr ship using gatling pulses/ quad light beams II even with T1 Ammo

Whatever you say. From where I'm standing, things are about to get very interesting.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Beverly Sparks
DEATH'S LEGION
#315 - 2014-03-12 15:47:30 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
also, i bet a kiting rifter wouldnt survive to an amarr ship using gatling pulses/ quad light beams II even with T1 Ammo

Whatever you say. From where I'm standing, things are about to get very interesting.


Yep I'm already sitting on a few rifter kills from people who thought it would become a viable frig again \o/. In fighting them I haven't really noticed an increase in performance.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#316 - 2014-03-12 15:52:57 UTC
Beverly Sparks wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
also, i bet a kiting rifter wouldnt survive to an amarr ship using gatling pulses/ quad light beams II even with T1 Ammo

Whatever you say. From where I'm standing, things are about to get very interesting.


Yep I'm already sitting on a few rifter kills from people who thought it would become a viable frig again \o/. In fighting them I haven't really noticed an increase in performance.

How many of those kills were competent pilots, and how many of them flew well, and how many flew the ship to its advantages?

Not saying I'm 100% certain it'll be a great ship, but in my opinion it's looking decent, and I'd rather wait until people figure out what they're doing before I start passing judgement. I'll personally wait a month at least before I really decide how I feel about it.
Beverly Sparks
DEATH'S LEGION
#317 - 2014-03-12 15:55:18 UTC
One of them was a verry competent pilot can't say much about the others don't know them personaly. Even the competent pilot didn't manage to make it a close match...
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#318 - 2014-03-12 16:21:14 UTC
Beverly Sparks wrote:

Also go ahead fit arty to a rifter, the arty tail needs dual webs to be somewhat effecient and it has a tracking bonus. The arty wolf has a tracking bonus and at the range it wants to be you can pretty easily mitigate allot of it's dps in an ab frig... So what will the rifter do????


disagree here, gallente can do scram kiting with rails with only one web, and they're slower. the reason a rifter cannot do it, is because it has no fitting, and because arties do no dps, which is made worse by the rifter having no slots. that said, a falloff bonus is definitely worse than a tracking bonus for artillery scram kiting. the whole point is they want you to do it with ACs, which don't fit either, and also have no dps.
Josie solo
Singular Motives
#319 - 2014-03-12 16:59:30 UTC
It's good you've tried re-balancing this under performing frigate and while a fall off bonus gives it... something, perhaps also adding an extra low would help bring it into equal contention with other frigates.

It opens up many options for fitting, mobility and damage while not overpowering it.
sten mattson
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#320 - 2014-03-12 17:08:55 UTC
Beverly Sparks wrote:

CCP remove a low or a high from the punisher and put it in the mids instead of silly pg, mass and speed changes....

Most important thing i see here in the combat frigs is the speed change to the breacher wich is really good.

Grtz,
Bev


if you want to fly a frig with great tank , dps, and cap with no utility high , fly the tormentor. Granted the ship is fugly, but remember it used to be a mining frig.

also, dont you dare remove that utility high on the punisher!!!

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!