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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Rubicon 1.3] T1 Frigate and Cruiser Balance Pass

First post First post
Author
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#261 - 2014-03-06 11:11:03 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Can someone run the math on how a +7.5% damage bonus/level would compare to the +5% ROF bonus on the Breacher?

The math is simple: when you overheat missiles you already get a RoF bonus, so damage is preferable. It's why T1»T2»Faction launchers feature increased ammunition capacity to offset a higher rate of fire.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#262 - 2014-03-06 19:34:59 UTC
I dislike the rof change to the breacher. I fly rocket breachers.

Heres why I dislike it:
1 Rockets have high rof as it is, Overheated rocket launchers burn out quick! even more so on rof bonused hulls. rof drops to like 1.5 seconds
Youre essentially cutting Oh time to less than half.

Increasing rof is not always a good idea, ie cap intensive weapons, as it causes weapon cycles to decrease. There has to be a balance between rof an raw damage.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#263 - 2014-03-07 03:05:28 UTC
So apparently these hit next Tuesday... Guess the RoF is set in-stone at this point...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Justin Cody
War Firm
The Ancients.
#264 - 2014-03-07 14:47:05 UTC
[Rifter, RFT]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Seems fine to me...I don't really see a problem. I can engage someone doing 3.4K/sec before links or heat, do dood dps once I have them tackled and have decent ehp with decent resists.

And for medium ancilary shield?

[Rifter, RFT]

Internal Force Field Array I
Power Diagnostic System II
Overdrive Injector System II

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

everything fits with no problems and only one fitting rig and a power diag which has benefits in addition to fitting (more shield, more shield recharge, more cap, more cap recharge)

Sure no gyro is fit but you also have the slot flexibility on the rifter to armor tank as well as shield.
Justin Cody
War Firm
The Ancients.
#265 - 2014-03-07 15:19:16 UTC
[Rifter, RFT]

Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Internal Force Field Array I
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

Rocket Launcher II
150mm Light AutoCannon II
150mm Light AutoCannon II
150mm Light AutoCannon II

Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I

stop moaning here's an armor fit
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#266 - 2014-03-07 17:09:22 UTC
Those Rifter fits would not cut it in FW. Most brawler frigs would web, scram, and hold you at 8km where they do full damage and your future Rifter would be stuck at ~48 - 60 DPS. Your shield fits get DPS of 121 overheated with faction and you get 40% of that at falloff. Even if I trade the Neut for a rocket launcher and the MWD for an AB - afterburners are popular in FW - I still need a fitting module or rig for your fits.

I do fly Rifters in FW.

High:
200mm II x 3
Rocket Launcher II
Mid:
AB II
Web II
Scram II
Low:
SAAR
DC II
Adaptive Nano II
Rigs:
Projectile Burst
Armor Nano x 2

This is the only fit that can do anything in FW imho. It has some range control with scram range kiters. It puts out 156 DPS. It reps 129 DPS for a short period of time. Arty fit the same way? 250s only do about 100 DPS and 450ish alpha. The rocket launcher won't fit. The rail fit incursus I posted above in this thread does 145ish DPS, has a SAAR, and no fitting issues.

The shield fit rifter is a dead concept. Fitting mod because you can't fit everything. Overdrive because you have no CPU left. It's not that you can't find fits - it's that everything else does NOT suffer from fitting issues and is so much better in every way.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#267 - 2014-03-07 19:14:21 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
[Rifter, RFT]

Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Internal Force Field Array I
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

Rocket Launcher II
150mm Light AutoCannon II
150mm Light AutoCannon II
150mm Light AutoCannon II

Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I

stop moaning here's an armor fit


IFFA on a Rifter?

0/10

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

The Lobsters
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#268 - 2014-03-07 22:10:49 UTC  |  Edited by: The Lobsters
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
[Rifter, RFT]

Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Internal Force Field Array I
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

Rocket Launcher II
150mm Light AutoCannon II
150mm Light AutoCannon II
150mm Light AutoCannon II

Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I

stop moaning here's an armor fit


IFFA on a Rifter?

0/10


And the rest. If you can afford to put iffa's on your Rifter you can afford to splash out on genolutions and a pg. I don't even know what that fit's supposed to do.

Also, that rof bonus on the breacher is gonna eat into precious overheat time. Not sure the breacher needs the buff. It's hands down the most deadly t1 frig. I stopped flying it because I got bored of winning all the time, if you can believe that.

That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#269 - 2014-03-08 01:57:34 UTC
The Lobsters wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
[Rifter, RFT]

Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Internal Force Field Array I
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

Rocket Launcher II
150mm Light AutoCannon II
150mm Light AutoCannon II
150mm Light AutoCannon II

Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I

stop moaning here's an armor fit


IFFA on a Rifter?

0/10


And the rest. If you can afford to put iffa's on your Rifter you can afford to splash out on genolutions and a pg. I don't even know what that fit's supposed to do.

Also, that rof bonus on the breacher is gonna eat into precious overheat time. Not sure the breacher needs the buff. It's hands down the most deadly t1 frig. I stopped flying it because I got bored of winning all the time, if you can believe that.


ROF bonuses on rockets also generally means that you run out of ammo about 70% through a long fight <.<

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#270 - 2014-03-08 02:06:19 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello everyone!

=snip=

Cruisers:
The Augoror, Maller and Omen are getting the Amarr increased mass increased speed treatment, and there are also several other minor tweaks here and there.



OSPREY:
+10 m/s
+0.02 inertia
-130000 mass


Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.


sweet jeebus thank you! Does this transfer to the T2 variants?

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#271 - 2014-03-08 02:12:48 UTC
Bob Niac wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello everyone!

=snip=

Cruisers:
The Augoror, Maller and Omen are getting the Amarr increased mass increased speed treatment, and there are also several other minor tweaks here and there.



OSPREY:
+10 m/s
+0.02 inertia
-130000 mass


Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.


sweet jeebus thank you! Does this transfer to the T2 variants?


Buffing logi? Are you on drugs?

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Onictus
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#272 - 2014-03-08 07:46:48 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
[Rifter, RFT]

Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Internal Force Field Array I
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

Rocket Launcher II
150mm Light AutoCannon II
150mm Light AutoCannon II
150mm Light AutoCannon II

Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I

stop moaning here's an armor fit


IFFA on a Rifter?

0/10


N MPAC.......
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#273 - 2014-03-08 14:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrias Bizniz
Onictus wrote:


N MPAC.......




Actually, the biggest surprise looking at the fit was the mwd, scram, capinject, buffertank combo. Or am i missing something?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#274 - 2014-03-08 17:34:05 UTC
hilarious how much effort you have to put in to make autocannons do more dps at 0 than railguns do at antimatter optimal
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#275 - 2014-03-09 01:02:23 UTC
Shield Rifter FW Variant - if you really have to:

High:
200mm II x 3
Malkuth Rocket Launcher
Mid:
AB II
Regolith MSE
Jb5 Warp Scrambler
Low:
Gyro II
TE II
F85 DC
Rigs:
Projectile Burst
Projectile Collision

185 DPS with faction close range. That tapers to 85 DPS at 10km. Unimpressive 4.7k EHP. If you want the same fit with a MWD the rifter is short 2 PG and 5 CPU.
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#276 - 2014-03-09 03:11:55 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello everyone! Today I'm bringing you a set of tweaks to some T1 frigates and cruisers that we are planning to release in Rubicon 1.3. Nothing that revolutionizes the core roles of the ships, but hopefully these changes will go a small way to further increasing the number of good options when flying these accessible ships.

I'll give some blurbs for each set of ships, but one thing you'll see throughout these changes is a slight shift for the mass/speed pattern surrounding some Amarrian ships. We're trying something new with these ships and although the results are somewhat subtle and can be a bit hard for newer players to understand, we hope that it will be a pattern we can weave into the Amarrian lineup as a bit of a subtheme.
Basically it's taking ships that fit the heavy armor plated pattern of the Amarrian race and increasing their mass quite a bit, with significant buffs to speed and agility to compensate. The end result is ships that have similar align time as before, and similar speed with their prop mod on. The big advantage is that they will essentially feel less negative effects to their agility and speed from fitting plates. We'll see how people like it. Like I said it's a bit subtle but it should be a noticeable improvement if you know what to look for.
The important thing to remember with the mass additions to the Amarrian ships is that thanks to the counterbalancing adjustments to agility and base speed, the change will result in a slight buff for most normal usage.


Combat Frigs:
Couple of changes here. The Punisher is getting the new Amarrian high mass pattern, as well as some small buffs to cap recharge and fitting. The Kestrel will be getting a mobility buff. The Breacher is seeing its missile damage bonus changed into RoF (which means higher dps) and getting some more speed at the cost of agility. The Rifter is getting a very significant bonus change, swapping its old SPT tracking bonus (which was/is extremely common among minmatar frigates) for a 10% falloff bonus that will give it much improved projection with both autocannons and artillery.

PUNISHER:
+2 PWG
+3 CPU
-20s Cap Recharge Time
+25 m/s velocity
+143000 mass
-0.45 inertia
+1 sensor strength

KESTREL:
+5 m/s velocity
-50000 mass

RIFTER:
Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus
Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus
+10 m/s velocity
+0.01 inertia

BREACHER:
Removed +5% missile damage bonus
Added -5% missile RoF bonus
+2 PWG
+10 m/s velocity
+0.02 inertia

Support Frigates:
Besides the Inquisitor getting the high mass high speed treatment, we're also making a few changes to this class as a whole. We're adding more base cap (but slowing down cap recharge rates to compensate) and adding more base speed to the whole class (with lower agility to compensate). Part of the original idea behind these ships was to make their downside a fairly low agility, to reward skilled piloting. These changes help push them farther in that direction.

INQUISITOR:
+50 Capacitor
+25s Cap Recharge Time
+95 m/s velocity
-0.05 inertia
+160000 mass

BANTAM:
+30 Capacitor
+15s Cap Recharge Time
+70 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia

NAVITAS:
+35 Capacitor
+17.5s Cap Recharge Time
+80 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia

BURST:
+30 Capacitor
+15s Cap Recharge Time
+80 m/s velocity
+0.35 inertia


Cruisers:
The Augoror, Maller and Omen are getting the Amarr increased mass increased speed treatment, and there are also several other minor tweaks here and there.

AUGOROR:
+25 m/s velocity
-0.12 inertia
+2140000 mass

OSPREY:
+10 m/s
+0.02 inertia
-130000 mass

MALLER:
+10 m/s velocity
-0.044 inertia
+1100000 mass

MOA:
+200 shields
-100 hull
+50 capacitor
+15s cap recharge time
-220000 mass

VEXOR:
-10 m/s velocity
+0.03 inertia
-210000 mass

OMEN:
+25 m/s velocity
-0.08 inertia
+1950000 mass

CARACAL:
+0.01 inertia

Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.


If your increasing amarr ship mass, are you increasing amarr armor hitpoints as well? After all, the only way a ships mass increases in the eve universe is when you plop on armor plating, which thus increses armor hp.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#277 - 2014-03-09 03:54:16 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:

185 DPS with faction close range. That tapers to 85 DPS at 10km. Unimpressive 4.7k EHP. If you want the same fit with a MWD the rifter is short 2 PG and 5 CPU.


Don't discount the value of selectable damage type. It can make quite a difference, especially with frigates where the limited number of slots makes fully plugging resist holes difficult.

On the other hand, you pretty much need to cripple the rifter to give it a tank that stands up to what the other factions bring to the table.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#278 - 2014-03-09 23:38:16 UTC
I did some efting, and rifter will still be lolrifter. other than the usual boring fixes, I was thinking CCP could just try +1 highslot. utility highs really aren't equal to another slot on frigates, imo. it'd be pretty cool to have 2 unbonused rockets, or some cap warfare on there, with appropriate fitting buffs.
The Lobsters
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#279 - 2014-03-10 00:11:43 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I did some efting, and rifter will still be lolrifter. other than the usual boring fixes, I was thinking CCP could just try +1 highslot. utility highs really aren't equal to another slot on frigates, imo. it'd be pretty cool to have 2 unbonused rockets, or some cap warfare on there, with appropriate fitting buffs.


I'd take swapping the high for another low, if the Rifter is really supposed to be the tank/gank model of the combat frigs like they said. Getting a decent arty kite fit is still going to be hard.

That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim.

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#280 - 2014-03-10 01:33:40 UTC
The Lobsters wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I did some efting, and rifter will still be lolrifter. other than the usual boring fixes, I was thinking CCP could just try +1 highslot. utility highs really aren't equal to another slot on frigates, imo. it'd be pretty cool to have 2 unbonused rockets, or some cap warfare on there, with appropriate fitting buffs.


I'd take swapping the high for another low, if the Rifter is really supposed to be the tank/gank model of the combat frigs like they said. Getting a decent arty kite fit is still going to be hard.


the usual boring fixes