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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2401 - 2014-03-08 00:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Still time for CCP Rise to read all the arguments on all the threads, and realise that this is going nowhere fast.

Even the unpublished improvements in 1.3 aren't going to improve things enough to change the outcome.
Suggestions for improvement here.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2402 - 2014-03-08 23:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Still time for CCP Rise to read all the arguments on all the threads, and realise that this is going nowhere fast.

Even the unpublished improvements in 1.3 aren't going to improve things enough to change the outcome.
Suggestions for improvement here.

Arthur what do you make of this idea, really going for a pure resolution for the fatal flaw of the nestor in wormhole space, not enough on it's own but should at least make it useable in wormhole space.

Been thinking on this and trying to find a solution to the problem in wormholes without adding any power whatsoever. It should defuse the argument as to whether it could be done.

Read it all please and take a second to think it through.

Do NOT allow the covert ops to be fitted but instead build the following into the ship.

When the ship is in warp it warps cloaked

but it should be exactly the same as at the moment, as in it has to be uncloaked to activate warp and uncloaks when coming out of warp and arriving.

So this solves the problem of being uncloaked on dscan when transiting a system while adding exactly zero to its combat capabilities.

This would allow it to be used in wormhole space. And no one could possibly call it overpowered.

I still believe that the covert ops on this ship would also not make it out of balance, but solving the fatal flaw of this ship is more important.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2403 - 2014-03-09 00:54:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Arthur what do you make of this idea, really going for a pure resolution for the fatal flaw of the nestor in wormhole space, not enough on it's own but should at least make it useable in wormhole space.

Been thinking on this and trying to find a solution to the problem in wormholes without adding any power whatsoever. It should defuse the argument as to whether it could be done.

Read it all please and take a second to think it through.

Do NOT allow the covert ops to be fitted but instead build the following into the ship.

When the ship is in warp it warps cloaked

but it should be exactly the same as at the moment, as in it has to be uncloaked to activate warp and uncloaks when coming out of warp and arriving.

So this solves the problem of being uncloaked on dscan when transiting a system while adding exactly zero to its combat capabilities.

This would allow it to be used in wormhole space. And no one could possibly call it overpowered.

I still believe that the covert ops on this ship would also not make it out of balance, but solving the fatal flaw of this ship is more important.

Honestly, the fatal flaw on the ship is the lack of a Covert Ops cloak.

• It doesn't have enough power grid or capacitor to mount (let alone wield) five Tachyons, so the optimal laser range bonus is moot. Even if this wasn't an issue, all the other Pirate ships far outstrip it in terms of raw and applied damage.
• It can sport an impressive tank, but no more so than other (cheaper) armor-based hulls. The lack of capacitor again hinders any real RR ability, effectively making it an expensive brick.
• It has the highest warp speed, but velocity and inertia are downright abysmal - so a ship with 2.0 AU/s warp speed will actually align, jump and arrive at the destination faster. We can now add slow to expensive brick.
• It has scanning bonuses, but due to the serious energy issues these will almost certainly be utilized for capacitor.

No, the solution is to fix the speed, inertia and give it either a Covert Ops cloak capability or Clone Vay Bay. Then it can take on more of a role of mothership in wormhole space.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2404 - 2014-03-09 01:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Arthur what do you make of this idea, really going for a pure resolution for the fatal flaw of the nestor in wormhole space, not enough on it's own but should at least make it useable in wormhole space.

Been thinking on this and trying to find a solution to the problem in wormholes without adding any power whatsoever. It should defuse the argument as to whether it could be done.

Read it all please and take a second to think it through.

Do NOT allow the covert ops to be fitted but instead build the following into the ship.

When the ship is in warp it warps cloaked

but it should be exactly the same as at the moment, as in it has to be uncloaked to activate warp and uncloaks when coming out of warp and arriving.

So this solves the problem of being uncloaked on dscan when transiting a system while adding exactly zero to its combat capabilities.

This would allow it to be used in wormhole space. And no one could possibly call it overpowered.

I still believe that the covert ops on this ship would also not make it out of balance, but solving the fatal flaw of this ship is more important.

Honestly, the fatal flaw on the ship is the lack of a Covert Ops cloak.

• It doesn't have enough power grid or capacitor to mount (let alone wiel)d five Tachyons, so the optimal laser range bonus is moot. Even if this wasn't an issue, all the other Pirate ships far outstrip it in terms of raw and applied damage.
• It can sport an impressive tank, but no more so than other (cheaper) armor-based hulls. The lack of capacitor again hinders any real RR ability, effectively making it an expensive brick.
• It has the highest warp speed, but velocity and inertia are downright abysmal - so a ship with 2.0 AU/s warp speed will actually align, jump and arrive at the destination faster. We can now add slow to expensive brick.
• It has scanning bonuses, but due to the serious energy issues these will almost certainly be utilized for capacitor.

No, the solution is to fix the speed, inertia and give it either a Covert Ops cloak capability or Clone Vay Bay. Then it can take on more of a role of mothership in wormhole space.


I've got to admit, you make good points, not sure about a clone vat bay, but it is an interesting feature but even with that it will never leave the POS, I am glad you see the lack of an ability to warp cloaked is a fatal flaw too, seems that you need to have experience of wormholes to see how serious an issue that is.

I am still at a loss as to why a pirate ship is specified like a t1 ship, I have tried to understand, but I just don't get it, i wonder if this was specced before the tiercide buffs on other ships and just tweaked in a minor faction.because i am also at a loss to see how this is better than a dominix apart from minor functions. And the low mass is simply irrelevant if it can't leave the home system. In fact the domi's higher mass will at least help it roll holes.

So overall, In fact since the recent work on omnidirectionals the dominix seems a better ship?? As it stands I see no reason why you wouldn't use a dedicated logi with a domi gang if you are never going outside your home system?

Just wierd.

So value point is somewhat less than a t1 ship, now that just makes no sense at all, some people are really going to lose money on this like never before. They must be praying that it gets saved somehow from being totally mediocre.
But in it's favour, it is a nice paint finish, white looks good on it.


So sad.......

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2405 - 2014-03-09 03:44:08 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I've got to admit, you make good points, not sure about a clone vat bay, but it is an interesting feature but even with that it will never leave the POS, I am glad you see the lack of an ability to warp cloaked is a fatal flaw too, seems that you need to have experience of wormholes to see how serious an issue that is.

I am still at a loss as to why a pirate ship is specified like a t1 ship, I have tried to understand, but I just don't get it, i wonder if this was specced before the tiercide buffs on other ships and just tweaked in a minor faction.because i am also at a loss to see how this is better than a dominix apart from minor functions. And the low mass is simply irrelevant if it can't leave the home system. In fact the domi's higher mass will at least help it roll holes.

So overall, In fact since the recent work on omnidirectionals the dominix seems a better ship?? As it stands I see no reason why you wouldn't use a dedicated logi with a domi gang if you are never going outside your home system?

Just wierd.

So value point is somewhat less than a t1 ship, now that just makes no sense at all, some people are really going to lose money on this like never before. They must be praying that it gets saved somehow from being totally mediocre.
But in it's favour, it is a nice paint finish, white looks good on it.

So sad.......

A Clonet Vat Bay basically means when your team mates die, they could be revived at the Nestor and not scattered to the four winds. I haven't spent an extensive amount of time in wormholes, but I have spent enough time to know that Covert Ops coaks basically mean the difference between life and death in wormhole space. The low mass of the Nestor is really only applicable if it has enough inertia and speed to keep up with the rest of the fleet. Otherwise it becomes an anchor and basically advertises "fleet here" without the cloak.

• Drop the scanning bonuses in lieu of a Clone Vat Bay
• Drop the optimal range laser bonuses in lieu of a Covert Ops cloak
• Buff the speed and inertia as previously outlined

Now you've got a wormhole-based "basestar" that can offer logistic RR services and respawn for fleets. It doesn't matter that it won't have the same offensive power because it basically serves in a support/logistic capacity. And you can fit it with Hyperspacial rigs so that it can keep up with the fastest ship in the fleet. Voila - now it's worth all of $1.5-billion (or more).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2406 - 2014-03-09 12:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I've got to admit, you make good points, not sure about a clone vat bay, but it is an interesting feature but even with that it will never leave the POS, I am glad you see the lack of an ability to warp cloaked is a fatal flaw too, seems that you need to have experience of wormholes to see how serious an issue that is.

I am still at a loss as to why a pirate ship is specified like a t1 ship, I have tried to understand, but I just don't get it, i wonder if this was specced before the tiercide buffs on other ships and just tweaked in a minor faction.because i am also at a loss to see how this is better than a dominix apart from minor functions. And the low mass is simply irrelevant if it can't leave the home system. In fact the domi's higher mass will at least help it roll holes.

So overall, In fact since the recent work on omnidirectionals the dominix seems a better ship?? As it stands I see no reason why you wouldn't use a dedicated logi with a domi gang if you are never going outside your home system?

Just wierd.

So value point is somewhat less than a t1 ship, now that just makes no sense at all, some people are really going to lose money on this like never before. They must be praying that it gets saved somehow from being totally mediocre.
But in it's favour, it is a nice paint finish, white looks good on it.

So sad.......

A Clonet Vat Bay basically means when your team mates die, they could be revived at the Nestor and not scattered to the four winds. I haven't spent an extensive amount of time in wormholes, but I have spent enough time to know that Covert Ops coaks basically mean the difference between life and death in wormhole space. The low mass of the Nestor is really only applicable if it has enough inertia and speed to keep up with the rest of the fleet. Otherwise it becomes an anchor and basically advertises "fleet here" without the cloak.

• Drop the scanning bonuses in lieu of a Clone Vat Bay
• Drop the optimal range laser bonuses in lieu of a Covert Ops cloak
• Buff the speed and inertia as previously outlined

Now you've got a wormhole-based "basestar" that can offer logistic RR services and respawn for fleets. It doesn't matter that it won't have the same offensive power because it basically serves in a support/logistic capacity. And you can fit it with Hyperspacial rigs so that it can keep up with the fastest ship in the fleet. Voila - now it's worth all of $1.5-billion (or more).


Got it, yes that makes a great deal of sense, it would be silly if ccp did not give it shield and cap logistics as well, being able to support a mixed fleet would be transformational.

Good thoughts i would buy one.
And probably every wormhole corp too.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE