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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Scan res required to catch pods?

Author
Gyromite
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-03-04 19:41:12 UTC
I've been doing alot of research on the forums and I haven't found any concrete answers. Right now my condor can get 2800 scan res with just two SeBo's, but with two tech two signal amps and 3 scan res rigs, I get a measly 3100 scan res. My question is whether or not that extra 300 scan res is worth it for the 5 extra slots it uses.

I know the server runs in 1 second ticks, and supposedly having a lock-on time of faster than a second is all you need, so with that in mind shouldn't there be a "magic number" for scan res to be to catch pods? Do I have too much scan res?

I know it's much easier to smartbomb, or just catch them in null-sec, but I'm after FW pods in hi sec.
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-03-04 19:48:52 UTC
According to https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Targeting_speed you need 2613mm scan res to "insta-lock" a pod.
(Assuming that pod has no gank links and no halo implants.)

Note that a pod can also insta-warp, so AFAIK they can still get away if they warp off the second the pod is ejected.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-03-04 21:01:03 UTC
If they're pre-aligned and spam warp before dying you won't catch them no matter what scan res you have.

But in practice, with >2.000 scan res you will catch many.

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Gyromite
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-03-04 22:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Gyromite
Groovy, now I can fit some prop rigs and a nano without fear of losing any chances I get.

Also, I read about NOT using the overview to target, since it has some sort of delay; would you guys have any other tips other than "get better latency"?
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#5 - 2014-03-05 00:03:39 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
If they're pre-aligned and spam warp before dying you won't catch them no matter what scan res you have.

But in practice, with >2.000 scan res you will catch many.


This is the case, and they do not need to be pre-aligned.

It takes less than one second to warp a pod away. It takes around one second to acquire a target lock on a pod, then an additional one second to activate a scram or gun.

That said, you will catch people that lag, make errors, or do not understand the mechanics of getting pods out, and you will catch more if you follow them in warp and catch them at the sun or a gate or a station.

I play on minimum graphics settings explicitly to reduce the lag on losing one of my ships.

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Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
#6 - 2014-03-05 23:46:19 UTC
My crew and I pop pods when we can. We use just one T1 sebo with a scan res script. As long as Concord hasn't showed up yet, we usually can catch the pod. Most of us have target acquisition V.

I use the overview to target though as it usually faster for me to fine the pod there than to click in space. I target the pod then immediately activate the weapon so it fires as soon as I have lock.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#7 - 2014-03-06 05:21:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Mister Simms wrote:
My crew and I pop pods when we can. We use just one T1 sebo with a scan res script. As long as Concord hasn't showed up yet, we usually can catch the pod. Most of us have target acquisition V.

I use the overview to target though as it usually faster for me to fine the pod there than to click in space. I target the pod then immediately activate the weapon so it fires as soon as I have lock.



There is still always a full second between the lock acquisition and the shot firing due to EVE running on a 1Hz server tick.

The first tick you do not have a target lock so your shot does not get processed by the server. The next tick, it goes through unless the pod has left in the interim.

This is also the same reason that if you are primaried in a fleet fight, your tank goes down in big clumps, not lots of little amounts, and why damage packets dealt by your (non-sentry) drones are in obvious 'clumps', not more smoothly distributed over time.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
#8 - 2014-03-06 06:51:50 UTC
Thanks for the info. I learned something.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#9 - 2014-03-06 09:52:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
A few things to add;

- Insta locking doesn't exist simply because of the server ticks involved and how the client and server have to communicate with each other. As such it's mostly used by bad people feverishly trying to find an excuse for why they died. "Damn I got insta locked man", just like "I got perma jammed". It's just people wanting to use fancy names and excuses for stuff they don't understand.

- as stated above, anything over ~2500 scan res is pretty much a waste

- even if you do everything right, if the pod pilot is paying attention, isn't lagging or DCed, isn't an idiot and has semi decent navigation skills you will not catch his pod. "But I got 3 pods today". As I stated; people who aren't an idiot :)


So, optimise your game play and actions but don't really put too much emphasis on trying to catch pods in the way that you're going overboard on stats or effort, because it won't really make a difference. The outcome of you catching a pod or not is more based on the (in)actions of the pod pilot than on the tackler.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-03-06 17:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
I'm going to question conventional wisdom on this a bit I think, where its assumed any scan res above 'x' is a waste...because the server actions ticks based on 1 second intervals. What I wonder is the impact of initiating actions at the 'middle' or 'end' of said ticks...

For example, I have to believe that if a dual-sebo Stilleto having 3600 scan res initiates a lock attempt in the middle of the first 1 second tick when a target initiates warp, he will have a better chance of making his tackle, compared to an Ares with only one sebo and a 2500 scan res initiating tackle in the 'middle' of a tick, then falling outside that first tick?

I think the assumption around 2500 res is 'enough' may be false, because it assumes the tackler initiates at the bottom of the tick with the target, not at the middle after a 1/4 second delay clicking his target button etc...

Discuss...
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#11 - 2014-03-06 17:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
I'm going to question conventional wisdom on this a bit I think, where its assumed any scan res above 'x' is a waste...because the server actions ticks based on 1 second intervals. What I wonder is the impact of initiating actions at the 'middle' or 'end' of said ticks...

For example, I have to believe that if a dual-sebo Stilleto having 3600 scan res initiates a lock attempt in the middle of the first 1 second tick when a target initiates warp, he will have a better chance of making his tackle, compared to an Ares with only one sebo and a 2500 scan res initiating tackle in the 'middle' of a tick, then falling outside that first tick?

I think the assumption around 2500 res is 'enough' may be false, because it assumes the tackler initiates at the bottom of the tick with the target, not at the middle after a 1/4 second delay clicking his target button etc...

Discuss...



You're forgetting that it's the server who allows the tackler to see the target in the first place, so while you're right that lock completion may fall "between ticks" you KNOW it always starts at the start of a new tick, where it shows up on overview. And THEN it's a simple calculation figuring out which scanres is needed to target something before the next tick and that's, roughly, 2500 scanres.

More scranres might help if the tackler is too slow to react and thus make up for the time lost but frankly we're talking 0.1s of seconds here and anyone who's truly interested in making that work will probably start with learning how to target properly; not how to make up for being bad at being a tackler simply because human reaction time is far too slow to be made up for by an excess of scanres.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-03-06 18:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
..but what about clicking in mid of the second tick then? Surely again a higher scan res ship is still better at fitting in that tick, than a lower one? People are saying higher scan res above 'x' doesn't matter, I believe it does. (shrugs)
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#13 - 2014-03-06 21:15:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
It wouldn't help a tackler who does it right, because he's fast enough. It might help a tackler who does it wrong but the window for that to make a difference is really really small and most certainly not enough if that tackler would rely on his actual reaction speed.

So you either tackle "pre clicking" and be fine with 2500-2800res or whatever, OR you rely on your reaction time. The issue is that someone who chooses to rely on reaction time chooses to do it wrong. That's why some tacklers perform miracles, same thing with uncloaking targets. People who are **** can't be helped with scan res, people who are good won't need that scan res.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#14 - 2014-03-06 22:09:39 UTC
Pod Express overview, frantic Ctrl+Clicking* the empty space where the soon-to-appear-pod is about to appear. Eliminate the reaction time from the equation. Then just don't be Australian.

* noting that some mouses can be programmed to repeatedly "click" if you hold down particular button.