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Why dont we use the cloud?

Author
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2014-03-05 17:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kristalll wrote:
Does the OP not realize that the cloud is just computers just like the current server structure?

Does the OP think the cloud is some magical internet entity?
I'm pretty sure when he is saying "use the cloud", what he really means is "distribute it over more hardware", I just don't think he realises that is what he means, since he has no idea what he's talking about.

that is only sort of what im saying. right now can eve dynamic start servers and instances to manage load and lots of stuff? no!! ccp is limiting by the PHYSICAL SERVERS THEY HAVE! i am understanding and i know that eve is distributed on 'internet servers' (do u guys think im stupid?) but the diff is the curent model is like hiring 3 people to do tech support and their overwelmed sometimes, vs out-sourcing to a tech support company to not get overwelmed because they have 'standby backup'!


Incorrect...

There is a reason they have dedicated Hardware. And special reinforced node for systems like JITA.

Distributed cloud services wont help with the dedicated processing and sync between all the nodes CCP requires to keep EVE running. The minute you add latency in the equation due to the nature of cloud and hosted services EVE will fall flat on it's face.

Remember. Hardware is not dedicated to you in hosted or cloud based service.

I would really suggest you search the forums for the type of hardware CCP has to keep EVE running.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Pew Terror
All of it
#42 - 2014-03-05 17:43:56 UTC
Posting in a "I think computers are magic boxes and random words i heard in the press impress my friends, so i must be computerjesus!!!" thread.
Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-03-05 17:49:47 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:

Remember. Hardware is not dedicated to you in hosted or cloud based service.

its not and there is still need for some dedicated processing (eg big battles) but the remainder load can be split up a LOT and done in paralel. ive read about what ccp uses to run eve and it looks limiting in this way
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2014-03-05 17:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:

Remember. Hardware is not dedicated to you in hosted or cloud based service.

its not and there is still need for some dedicated processing (eg big battles) but the remainder load can be split up a LOT and done in paralel. ive read about what ccp uses to run eve and it looks limiting in this way


Communication between the servers then becomes your bottleneck. Which will make thing even worse.


Just FYI:

IBM blade servers with 280 total cores, and more than 4.8 terabytes of local storage. The Tranquility cabinets require 79 kilowatts of power and are housed in a cold-aisle containment system to manage airflow and server waste heat. “Cold air from the center of the aisle is force-fed into the cabinets reducing the loss or wasted cool air significantly and helping to focus cold air where it’s needed most,” Wise writes. “This takes the industry standard “hot aisle/cold aisle” designs a step further without having to do anything crazy like running servers under nitrogen pools (although that is pretty cool).”

Internally, the network for Tranquility consists of internal fiber channel 4Gb/s backbones, with internal database communication on a separate 10Gb/s backbone.

Externally, CCP peers with multiple external transit providers and essentially acts as a tier-3 ISP, with only one customer- Tranquility.

That alone should make you... OHHH ok... understood.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

unidenify
Deaf Armada
#45 - 2014-03-05 17:54:10 UTC
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:

Remember. Hardware is not dedicated to you in hosted or cloud based service.

its not and there is still need for some dedicated processing (eg big battles) but the remainder load can be split up a LOT and done in paralel. ive read about what ccp uses to run eve and it looks limiting in this way



They do....

when alliance/corp/player are planning to have big battle, they need to sent form in 24 hours or longer notice to CPP so they can shift and reinforce nodes where big fight may occur.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#46 - 2014-03-05 17:56:14 UTC
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kristalll wrote:
Does the OP not realize that the cloud is just computers just like the current server structure?

Does the OP think the cloud is some magical internet entity?
I'm pretty sure when he is saying "use the cloud", what he really means is "distribute it over more hardware", I just don't think he realises that is what he means, since he has no idea what he's talking about.

that is only sort of what im saying. right now can eve dynamic start servers and instances to manage load and lots of stuff? no!! ccp is limiting by the PHYSICAL SERVERS THEY HAVE! i am understanding and i know that eve is distributed on 'internet servers' (do u guys think im stupid?) but the diff is the curent model is like hiring 3 people to do tech support and their overwelmed sometimes, vs out-sourcing to a tech support company to not get overwelmed because they have 'standby backup'!
Yes, we do in fact thing you are stupid, at least as far as tech is concerned. If you would like to explain your background a little better and perhaps demonstrate that you have half a clue, by all means proceed, but continuously repeating "the cloud, THE CLOUD!" doesn't make you an IT expert.

Firstly, CPP can't (can't, cannot, are unable to) distribute their load for an individual node to multiple servers, as the code they use is single threaded. One system = one CPU, so they can't even distribute it across cores.

To use your own example, imagine you have 3 tech support people doing 3 jobs which only one person can do at any one time. So for example, they are all fixing hardware located in 3 vents that you can only fit a single person in each. Now all of a sudden, those vents heat up to an insane temperature, making it very difficult to work in them. Adding more people to the equation won't get the work done quicker. At most, you could replace the person in the vent with an alternate person who will soon be in the same position as the first. The act of swapping people would take up more time than you gain, and you can't get two people into the vent. So more people are useless.

Secondly, you are comparing an already huge network of servers with clusters of web servers specifically designed to balance load. They simply aren't the same tech and can't be dealt with in the same way.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Hra Neuvosto
Party Cat Enterprises
#47 - 2014-03-05 17:58:34 UTC
Xavier Holtzman
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#48 - 2014-03-05 18:02:29 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
Let me guess....you have a Facebook page and you Twitter as well. Ugh

what do those have anything to do with it? and what if i do? its not like im trying to get u to read them Roll

Google the word "dense", then have a quiet moment of thought with yourself.



What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense? Tell me, do you also judge people on the color of their skin and their country of origin?

I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it. - Bill Frug

Serene Repose
#49 - 2014-03-05 18:07:23 UTC
This has turned into quite an interesting conversation (for one who just learned to bake biscuit yesterday.) As it happens I just reread the "capacitor" wiki, and couldn't help seeing similarities in the nature of server loads, and current/charge loads.

It may be instructive to clarify the various types of data loads involved, and how they're affected when a single player is in a system doing nothing...then firing weapons and running mods (for instance), and what particular data loads are increased as the amount of players and player activity increases to say...Jita size...or even one of the recent epic battles.

This, I can only assume, would also include graphics display as a load unto itself....in a way.

Anyway, believe it or not, you guys almost have me grasping how all this is working.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#50 - 2014-03-05 18:07:40 UTC
Xavier Holtzman wrote:
What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense?
No, just the people who take quotes out of context and make up assumptions about what was actually said.

At least now we have an answer to the OP's question: because the cloud provides zero advantages and a truckload of disadvantages. In particular, it doesn't solve any of the issues the OP is worrying about — in fact, it rather risks making them even larger issues than they are right now.

There's a reason why I asked what it was he thought it would solve.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#51 - 2014-03-05 18:07:43 UTC
"The Cloud" is an incredibly over-used buzz word that people (see: mostly higher ups at Microsoft) throw around without really understanding what it is. Hooray "Cloud".

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Serene Repose
#52 - 2014-03-05 18:08:43 UTC
Xavier Holtzman wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
Let me guess....you have a Facebook page and you Twitter as well. Ugh

what do those have anything to do with it? and what if i do? its not like im trying to get u to read them Roll

Google the word "dense", then have a quiet moment of thought with yourself.



What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense? Tell me, do you also judge people on the color of their skin and their country of origin?
I think what Pok was saying is "what do these have to do with it...." is a rather dense question to ask.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2014-03-05 18:11:00 UTC
Lykouleon wrote:
"The Cloud" is an incredibly over-used buzz word that people (see: mostly higher ups at Microsoft) throw around without really understanding what it is. Hooray "Cloud".


Sales people love using that word. Cloud is just a fancy word for saying Internet.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#54 - 2014-03-05 18:16:49 UTC
Xavier Holtzman wrote:
What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense? Tell me, do you also judge people on the color of their skin and their country of origin?
Yes. AND, the clothes they wear, if they eat quiche and if they post digressively, obtusely, and willfully ignorantly.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Xavier Holtzman
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#55 - 2014-03-05 18:17:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Xavier Holtzman wrote:
What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense?
No, just the people who take quotes out of context and make up assumptions about what was actually said.

At least now we have an answer to the OP's question: because the cloud provides zero advantages and a truckload of disadvantages. In particular, it doesn't solve any of the issues the OP is worrying about — in fact, it rather risks making them even larger issues than they are right now.

There's a reason why I asked what it was he thought it would solve.



Much like what you're doing .... I guess we can all be "dense" together.

I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it. - Bill Frug

Vipre Morte
Team JK
#56 - 2014-03-05 18:17:40 UTC
I can't tell if OP is a good troll, or just VERY tech illiterate.
Salene Gralois
K-2
#57 - 2014-03-05 18:23:05 UTC
Xavier Holtzman wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Xavier Holtzman wrote:
What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense?
No, just the people who take quotes out of context and make up assumptions about what was actually said.

At least now we have an answer to the OP's question: because the cloud provides zero advantages and a truckload of disadvantages. In particular, it doesn't solve any of the issues the OP is worrying about — in fact, it rather risks making them even larger issues than they are right now.

There's a reason why I asked what it was he thought it would solve.



Much like what you're doing .... I guess we can all be "dense" together.


Confirming quoted poster is dense.
Volar Kang
Kang Industrial
#58 - 2014-03-05 18:23:24 UTC
OP,

You do realize that the hardware running this game is some of the most advanced stuff out there right? The I/O performance of the CCP hardware is MILES above what is being offered by cloud based hosting like Amazon and Microsoft.
Serene Repose
#59 - 2014-03-05 18:27:25 UTC
Xavier Holtzman wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Xavier Holtzman wrote:
What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense?
No, just the people who take quotes out of context and make up assumptions about what was actually said.

At least now we have an answer to the OP's question: because the cloud provides zero advantages and a truckload of disadvantages. In particular, it doesn't solve any of the issues the OP is worrying about — in fact, it rather risks making them even larger issues than they are right now.

There's a reason why I asked what it was he thought it would solve.



Much like what you're doing .... I guess we can all be "dense" together.
What bug got up YOUR butt?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#60 - 2014-03-05 18:28:14 UTC
Thread of the year right here.

Things are only impossible until they are not.