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My Sandbox is Becoming a Themepark

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hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
The Conference
#441 - 2014-03-02 08:22:58 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Phaade wrote:
they need a second tier of missions, and the current missions to pay out far less / be easier.....

So that we can implement higher paying, much more risky, PvE like you described in point 1.

Level 4's shouldn't be 50 ****** battleships, 20 ****** battle cruisers 20 ****** cruisers, and 15 ****** frigates.

There should be far fewer, but they should web, scram, long point, TD, neut, Nos, use Ancillary reppers, mwd, paint, SD, and be dirty motherfuckers that are hard to kill and overall a pain in the ass.

They should also stay away from directly splitting rewards, ie capping a plex in FW with two pilots gives each pilot half. This directly inhibits people grouping up and playing together....because you can earn SO much more for doing **** alone.

The FW corporations would understand this, and adjust their payouts accordingly. 2 players in a novice get 80% reward, 3 65%, 4 50%, (whatever is appropriate).

The problem is that CCP has no idea how to appropriately create incentives.

Eve could be 3 times the game it is (though it's still pretty damn good), but they have a massive lack of vision and creativity, it seems.



You like to joke, don't you? Just admit it.
That's something not even L5s have, and L5 missions are far more broken than L4s in terms of Risk/Reward ratio. You can literally warp a carrier in them, kill a feeble structure and warp out again and get the LP/Isk reward of 3 L4s in a matter of minutes. This is so fast, not even well skilled combat probers often have a chance to get to you in time, let alone the dead space limitations to cynos.

So, in a sense, low sec with its L5s already offers a huge incentive to go there and get rich faster than you could anywhere else.

Except you cant do this in low sec. Pandering to sheep, all ccp does.
Josef Djugashvilis
#442 - 2014-03-02 08:27:32 UTC
hellokittyonline wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
hellokittyonline wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
My sandbox has too many pixel hard-men whinging that others will not play the way they want them to.

yes because i totally care what you do and want to nerf you.


You started the thread deary, so this suggests that you do care.

I do not mind what you and your fellow pixel hard-men do or do not do in-game.

But please, stop making threads trying to show off how tough you are.

you obviously have the IQ of a squirrel.


Cyril Burt would like a word with you, he also manipulated information to get the results he wanted.

This is not a signature.
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
The Conference
#443 - 2014-03-02 08:31:10 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
hellokittyonline wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
hellokittyonline wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
My sandbox has too many pixel hard-men whinging that others will not play the way they want them to.

yes because i totally care what you do and want to nerf you.


You started the thread deary, so this suggests that you do care.

I do not mind what you and your fellow pixel hard-men do or do not do in-game.

But please, stop making threads trying to show off how tough you are.

you obviously have the IQ of a squirrel.


Cyril Burt would like a word with you, he also manipulated information to get the results he wanted.

K
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#444 - 2014-03-02 08:42:02 UTC
and here we see, ladies and gents, the final death throes of a thread that has reached it's end, as players begin abandoning reason and become more interested in personal matters which may or may not be loosely tied to the original topic proposed by the OP.

May we all bow our heads in a moment of silence...
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#445 - 2014-03-02 10:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
hellokittyonline wrote:

Except you cant do this in low sec. Pandering to sheep, all ccp does.


People do that all the time.

Or what exactly do you refer to?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#446 - 2014-03-02 10:48:57 UTC
Interesting read.

The Tears Must Flow
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#447 - 2014-03-02 17:54:11 UTC
hellokittyonline wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
hellokittyonline wrote:


To the person saying I "dont have the sack for low sec" I am quite literally posting on my low sec pvp alt right now.



The point is not that you can't fly around with your bros and gank FW nubs, the point is that you, yourself, make your living in Hi-Sec as detailed in your original post. That makes you a Care Bear enjoying the protection of Concord for your convenience like every other wannabe tough guy that actually has an Indy Alt etc. and wants some easy mode risk free isk farming when it suits him.

Ganking missioners is as risk free as it gets.

I am sorry that can-flipping missions has gotten harder for you. Maybe it's time to grow up and move out to low permanently? Maybe step into a WH and start soloing some Sleeper Sites?


Get mad.



This ain't my QQ thread bro. It's yours.
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
The Conference
#448 - 2014-03-03 00:06:06 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Interesting read.

Thank you ^^
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#449 - 2014-03-04 08:13:23 UTC
Evilishah wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:


This is a thread about a can flipper that is complaining that can flipping in high sec is too hard, no more, no less.

If you think Null is the new high sec tell it to Pandemic Legion or Test. They found it more risky than we can dream of.

Have this little can flipper who made this thread go deep into Goon Space and try flipping some cans.


Maybe, but that doesn't necessarily invalidate his points. High sec is safe and one of the most profitable places in Eve.

You also don't really address the Null issue. Yeah, it's dangerous for people like me who fly into Null uninvited to hack sites, but if I chose to join a Goon affiliated corp... Null just got a whole, whole lot safer.


We lost around 250 ratting ishtars alone last month. Stats show that null is 4 times more deadly than high sec despite having 1/5 the population of highsec.

Null sec being safer than high sec is a myth.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#450 - 2014-03-05 01:22:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
We lost around 250 ratting ishtars alone last month. Stats show that null is 4 times more deadly than high sec despite having 1/5 the population of highsec.


So AFK ratters lose ships, is that what you're saying? Would those Ishtars have been lost if the players were paying attention to intel channels?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#451 - 2014-03-05 01:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: JetStream Drenard
I cant read this whole threadnaught but YES! Good Kitty! I cant agree more.
Erotica 1 wrote:
The original post clearly states possible solutions. The problem is largely agreed upon. There are plenty of themepark games to choose from. Some of them I would play if they were not themeparks and I had a glimmer of hope they would last, mainly Star Trek and Star Wars.

There is only one EVE.

Once you take EVE too far towards a themepark, then other games look attractive, and the core players actually leave.

People come to EVE after reading of massive space battles, massive ponzis, corporate infiltration, etc. They don't join because they heard about mining lasers and mission grinding.

The awesomely complex economy EVE has needs all player types. But if CCP simply goes back to basics and focuses on what makes EVE special, the rest will take care of itself.
This is why I started playing eve!! CCP stop catering to pansies!! My First MMO, maybe my last unless CCP makes this game harder to play, more challenging, more of an adrenaline pumped holy ******* **** did that just happen happy fun fest. I want the challenge, I crave it. Like Erotica says there are plenty of pansy ass games out there, CCP just tell the whining carebears pukes to go **** themselves: Please?

I say it is time for more people to stand up and say, "CCP please make this game more challenging, more difficult, and take us back to your HTFU family values. Please continue to differentiate this game from all the other easy games once again. CCP, I know that we are asking a lot and we know we are asking you to loose some subscriptions, but we ask in good faith. We promise to kill all the things and put Eve on the front page news as often as we can. We want risk, effort and intensity to be the number one driving religion of Eve. We ask you to make it happen. Thank you!"
Bliz'ard
IMPS
#452 - 2014-03-09 19:33:38 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
hellokittyonline wrote:
...

SKILLS MY PROFESSION REQUIRES THAT PVE DOESN'T:

1. People Skills - the socio-path-like ability to talk someone into doing something completely stupid
....


Wanna-be sociopath tears are quite simply the platinum standard of tears, don't you know?




THIS. This over and over and over again. OMFG, THIS ^^^^

As a proud carebear from 2006 until today there is LITERALLY no better feeling than knowing that I'm pissing off some loser whose idea of "creating content" is abusing people who know less about the rules than he does. It's just, oh man, this is why I came to the forums today! Thank you for making my day.

Also, what the OP is doing is anti-social, not sociopathic. Anti-social behavior is not a good thing and if all a "sandbox" game has to offer is said anti-social behavior then, really, how is that even a game? If I wanted to be around douchebags all day I'd ... go back to highschool?

I'm (obviously) all for solo play (yes even in an MMO) and I often position my chat channel so that all that annoying text is off the screen. What *I* enjoy (yeah, because you care, right?) is buying low, selling high, mining stuff and moving goods around. I have an impact when I move millions of ISK from one region to another. I don't need anyone else to enjoy myself in game. I have moved the chat channel up a few times to listen and speak, but hey, that's my right too - I get to play how I like, when I like. That's a sandbox.

But as another player said earlier, the OP is basically saying "MOOOOOOM! Some people don't want to play with meeeee!!! Force them to play with me or I'm going to cut myself."

Dig in, junior - Eve will be better when you're gone.

Check my NPC corp! Deep Core Mining forever!
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#453 - 2014-03-09 19:48:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Evilishah wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:


This is a thread about a can flipper that is complaining that can flipping in high sec is too hard, no more, no less.

If you think Null is the new high sec tell it to Pandemic Legion or Test. They found it more risky than we can dream of.

Have this little can flipper who made this thread go deep into Goon Space and try flipping some cans.


Maybe, but that doesn't necessarily invalidate his points. High sec is safe and one of the most profitable places in Eve.

You also don't really address the Null issue. Yeah, it's dangerous for people like me who fly into Null uninvited to hack sites, but if I chose to join a Goon affiliated corp... Null just got a whole, whole lot safer.


We lost around 250 ratting ishtars alone last month. Stats show that null is 4 times more deadly than high sec despite having 1/5 the population of highsec.

Null sec being safer than high sec is a myth.


How many of them are bots? O.o

No, srsly, how can someone be this stupid to loose 250 Ishtars in a month (nearly 9 a day) and still not realize to look at the intel and local chat? I know, more than one person lost an Ishtar but how many braindead people do you have in your corp?


These Ishtars where not lost due to 0.0 beeing a dangerous place, these Ishtars where either lost to stupid bots or stupid players.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
The Conference
#454 - 2014-03-10 20:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: hellokittyonline
Bliz'ard wrote:
blabla

Yet again another person quoting me out of context and responding to only what he chooses to read. Childish really. Had you read any more of the post, and not simply taken everything at face value (a very common mistake among those with low intellect it seems) you'd realize that I'm in support of mechanics that encourage bears to learn more about the game. Also, I fully expect you to take everything I just typed out of context and assume that I'm talking about mechanics that force carebears to PvP, but that's quite simply not the case.

Honestly I think one of the largest factors inhibiting EvE's progress is this "white knight" mentality. Just because someone does something you do not agree with (IN A VIDEO GAME), does not mean that you are obligated to "defend the greater good of everyone (read: everyone with an IQ of 2)" by raging incoherently. This also has the byproduct of leading CCP to believe that they need to do more to protect you (at the expense of other players OMG OMG THIS IS A SANBOX I DO WUT I WAN), when in reality you're simply too dense to protect yourself.
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
The Conference
#455 - 2014-03-10 20:17:35 UTC
and in response to the inevitable "UR TRYIN TO RUIN PVE 4 TEH GREATER GUD OF PVP, UR A HIPPOKRITE" post. Read the thread. Utilize critical thinking skills.
Bliz'ard
IMPS
#456 - 2014-03-10 21:07:40 UTC
hellokittyonline wrote:
Bliz'ard wrote:
blabla

Yet again another person quoting me out of context and responding to only what he chooses to read. Childish really. Had you read any more of the post, and not simply taken everything at face value (a very common mistake among those with low intellect it seems) you'd realize that I'm in support of mechanics that encourage bears to learn more about the game. Also, I fully expect you to take everything I just typed out of context and assume that I'm talking about mechanics that force carebears to PvP, but that's quite simply not the case.

Honestly I think one of the largest factors inhibiting EvE's progress is this "white knight" mentality. Just because someone does something you do not agree with (IN A VIDEO GAME), does not mean that you are obligated to "defend the greater good of everyone (read: everyone with an IQ of 2)" by raging incoherently. This also has the byproduct of leading CCP to believe that they need to do more to protect you (at the expense of other players OMG OMG THIS IS A SANBOX I DO WUT I WAN), when in reality you're simply too dense to protect yourself.


Oh I read it all, but I do admit my comprehension might have been harmed by all the joy I got knowing that someone who
Quote:
[made] (and continue to make) all of my isk PvPing by baiting high-sec mission runners and stealing their ships.
doesn't like things like the green safety button. Golly, it must be so hard for you to plex those three accounts instead of just paying three subscriptions. Tell me how it feels to be poor and would you please try to drop your wonderful tears onto my face? They're just so yummy!!!!

Maybe you just don't get it - your pain, is my joy. Literally.

Quote:
CCPs STANCE: Has been to continuously bubble-wrap the risk-averse making it increasingly difficult (in extremely superficial ways) for us content-creators to inject risk into their environment.
You consider yourself a CONTENT CREATOR!? I mean, dude come on; how awesome is that logic?!
Quote:
Well you see, what I do is steal from people and make them learn about the game, which is extra content for them! Also, when I liter in real life I'm a job creator because someone has to clean that up, and when I beat my wife I'm allowing her body to get stronger and more efficient at healing! So, I'm also a doctor.

I mean just how broken must your mind be to consider the abuse of game mechanics and other people's stupidity to be a moral positive?! Like you're helping CCP out and they just keep making it harder for you to help them by making the game safer for the people who actually pay $15 a month for the game. You know, those people who are actually better than you because they do real things in the real world and are rewarded with money. Then they use that money to fund this game, which wouldn't exist except for their actual money paid? THOSE are the people you deign to "correct" into getting "smarter"?

But those people are suckers, amiright? Anyone who can't rip off 1.7 billion ISK from other people per month to fund PLEXes for three accounts is just playing the game wrong and is dumb and if ONLY they'd learn your ways they would be Smart and Eve would be better and CCP might finally recognize your awesomeness.

So, onto your possible solutions:
1. Those NPC are called Sleepers. Kthx!
2. Bounties do enable tangible rewards - your ship exploding is something most decent players sincerely enjoy and wish to encourage over and over again. We're even willing to pay for it.
3. Enh, whatever
4. Man that green safety button must have significantly reduced the number of tricks you can use to steal from people who are missioning. More tears please! Tears like rain!!!
Bliz'ard
IMPS
#457 - 2014-03-10 21:13:03 UTC
If anyone needs me, I'll be squatting in the bathroom "creating content" for hellokittyonline.
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
The Conference
#458 - 2014-03-10 21:50:18 UTC
^this is a great representation of the IQ required to be successful at High-Sec PvE.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#459 - 2014-03-10 22:35:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


We lost around 250 ratting ishtars alone last month. Stats show that null is 4 times more deadly than high sec despite having 1/5 the population of highsec.

Null sec being safer than high sec is a myth.

Stats also show Null Sec makes more income than High sec, despite that people ratio you mentioned....
Null Sec being lower income than high sec is a myth. (Using exactly the same argument you just tried to use, and CCP figures)

Op started from a faulty premise and the entire thread was going to go downhill from there.

Green safety always existed. It now just exists in a much more sensible form than it used to. And was part of a change to stop neutral logi abuses in high sec, which were true carebearing. Now you actually at least sort of risk your logi (Not that it's normally a real risk, but there is at least a theoretical risk)

Orca ship swapping was nerfed because it was being abused to dodge other game mechanics such as suspect timers.

Mining barges (Actually some of them weren't buffed) were buffed to create three separate lines of barges all of which had a purpose. (I'd have just given them actual cruiser level fittings like a Maller, starting tank like a Maller and hard capped strip miners & maybe MLU's also, which would create even more ganker crying as Miners could actually have a real fit then).

Mission Agro was changed to avoid the 'warp in the tank first, then use totally untanked DPS ships to kill' type environment and was actually designed to make mission runners have a HARDER life.

And lastly, Incursions are certainly not riskless. The fact some people have gotten very good at them does not make them riskless, and it requires a very good understanding of a large portion of game mechanics to become very good at incursions. Which means those doing so are actually doing what you want already and learning.

So yea.... Revert to start premise, fix start premise, then you might get somewhere.
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
The Conference
#460 - 2014-03-10 22:56:49 UTC  |  Edited by: hellokittyonline
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


We lost around 250 ratting ishtars alone last month. Stats show that null is 4 times more deadly than high sec despite having 1/5 the population of highsec.

Null sec being safer than high sec is a myth.

Stats also show Null Sec makes more income than High sec, despite that people ratio you mentioned....
Null Sec being lower income than high sec is a myth. (Using exactly the same argument you just tried to use, and CCP figures)

Op started from a faulty premise and the entire thread was going to go downhill from there.

Green safety always existed. It now just exists in a much more sensible form than it used to. And was part of a change to stop neutral logi abuses in high sec, which were true carebearing. Now you actually at least sort of risk your logi (Not that it's normally a real risk, but there is at least a theoretical risk)

Orca ship swapping was nerfed because it was being abused to dodge other game mechanics such as suspect timers.

Mining barges (Actually some of them weren't buffed) were buffed to create three separate lines of barges all of which had a purpose. (I'd have just given them actual cruiser level fittings like a Maller, starting tank like a Maller and hard capped strip miners & maybe MLU's also, which would create even more ganker crying as Miners could actually have a real fit then).

Mission Agro was changed to avoid the 'warp in the tank first, then use totally untanked DPS ships to kill' type environment and was actually designed to make mission runners have a HARDER life.

And lastly, Incursions are certainly not riskless. The fact some people have gotten very good at them does not make them riskless, and it requires a very good understanding of a large portion of game mechanics to become very good at incursions. Which means those doing so are actually doing what you want already and learning.

So yea.... Revert to start premise, fix start premise, then you might get somewhere.

The green safety has nothing to do with logistics (they already implemented a warning pop-up for logi before the safety was implemented EDIT: because we were awoxing too many incursion fleets) and everything to do with allowing people to be safe without doing their research.

The orca swap had nothing to do with suspect timers (literally... nothing) and everything to do with making it harder for mission baiters (but really didn't make it harder at all... except if you're a new player looking to get into mission baiting).

The Mission Agro mechanics were changed to avoid 'warp in and steal the loot'. Had CCP done it for the reason you stated the NPCs would engage based on dps/tank ratio (and my 0 dps salvage ship wouldn't be considered a threat).

Incursions certainly are riskless in that you only have to learn how to do them once, and then you face no more risk for all of eternity (and if you did your research before-hand there was no risk in the first place). CCP has made extra effort to cut off all forms of player interference as far as incursions are concerned and I think if that is going to be the case, the rewards should be adjusted as such.