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My Sandbox is Becoming a Themepark

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ashley Eoner
#81 - 2014-02-28 09:30:48 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Em arr Roids wrote:
Sigh another nerf high sec thread hey ? I knew one was due!

What the op says will never happen. If you look at the map and statics you will see that most of the active playerbase is currently in high sec. Always was and always will be the most active areas of space.

That is a lot of custom to loose by fcking their game and content up and driving them out.


This is a myth.

A huge chunk are null sec alts who are only in high sec for the isk and there will be no mass unsub, high sec bears always threaten to leave but never do. CCP should fix game imbalances and ignore the people who defend said game imbalances.


Bears fill up games like WoW to the tune of millions. Wonder what CCP wants, more paying subs or more ISK for nullsec to RMT away. Big smile


And dozens of other games have died trying precisely that.

Blizzard is the exception, not the rule. They're hanging on by their fingernails, poisoning their once beloved IPs by catering to the casuals, what's more.

WoW "catered to the casuals" from day one. Wow was never hardcore and vanilla raiding was a joke. All you needed was 15 or so people to somewhat know what to do for the 40 man raid to work.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#82 - 2014-02-28 09:32:30 UTC
I Riven I wrote:
Take level 4 missions OUT of highsec.
As well as decrease highsec incursions payment to 1\3.



In Exchange for taking level 4 missions out of high sec and decreasing high security incursion payments.

You will concede to cutting concord response timers in half and limit the amount of active war declarations a corporation/alliance may have to 2.

Give and take. Be fair.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#83 - 2014-02-28 09:36:21 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

WoW "catered to the casuals" from day one. Wow was never hardcore and vanilla raiding was a joke. All you needed was 15 or so people to somewhat know what to do for the 40 man raid to work.


And like I said, they've poisoned the well as far as their previously existing IPs were concerned.

Blizzard's last good game was Brood War.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
ashley Eoner
#84 - 2014-02-28 09:51:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

WoW "catered to the casuals" from day one. Wow was never hardcore and vanilla raiding was a joke. All you needed was 15 or so people to somewhat know what to do for the 40 man raid to work.


And like I said, they've poisoned the well as far as their previously existing IPs were concerned.

Blizzard's last good game was Brood War.

They poisoned it so much they ended up with the biggest most profitable MMOrpg in history.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#85 - 2014-02-28 09:53:14 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

WoW "catered to the casuals" from day one. Wow was never hardcore and vanilla raiding was a joke. All you needed was 15 or so people to somewhat know what to do for the 40 man raid to work.


And like I said, they've poisoned the well as far as their previously existing IPs were concerned.

Blizzard's last good game was Brood War.

They poisoned it so much they ended up with the biggest most profitable MMOrpg in history.


And like I said, they are the exception to the rule. Or are you telling me that every other MMO in history has died a miserable death by coincidence?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
ashley Eoner
#86 - 2014-02-28 09:55:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

WoW "catered to the casuals" from day one. Wow was never hardcore and vanilla raiding was a joke. All you needed was 15 or so people to somewhat know what to do for the 40 man raid to work.


And like I said, they've poisoned the well as far as their previously existing IPs were concerned.

Blizzard's last good game was Brood War.

They poisoned it so much they ended up with the biggest most profitable MMOrpg in history.


And like I said, they are the exception to the rule. Or are you telling me that every other MMO in history has died a miserable death by coincidence?
Millions of reasons.

hellokittyonline wrote:
Because if you are doing it right, you will never lose your ship.

Exactly if you're doing it right you'll never lose a ship in PVP.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#87 - 2014-02-28 09:57:14 UTC
Em arr Roids wrote:



Because you guys are greedy and have way more space than you can actually use or need for that matter!


We have 30k pilots in the CFC alone so it stands to reason that at least one area of our space would have a large number of people in it. Fact is that the only place you will find a lot of our pilots is either vfk (our market hub) and our deployment system. Just about all of our space is empty.

Also we have the fact that 80% of bots are to be found in high sec. So if null is where the isk is why are almost all of the bots in high sec?

We have also run some very detailed tests to see exactly how much isk each area will bring in per pilot and high sec will earn you more. All evidence gathered tells us that high sec is the best place to be earning isk when running combat pve.
ashley Eoner
#88 - 2014-02-28 09:58:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
baltec1 wrote:
Em arr Roids wrote:



Because you guys are greedy and have way more space than you can actually use or need for that matter!


We have 30k pilots in the CFC alone so it stands to reason that at least one area of our space would have a large number of people in it. Fact is that the only place you will find a lot of our pilots is either vfk (our market hub) and our deployment system. Just about all of our space is empty.

Also we have the fact that 80% of bots are to be found in high sec. So if null is where the isk is why are almost all of the bots in high sec?

We have also run some very detailed tests to see exactly how much isk each area will bring in per pilot and high sec will earn you more. All evidence gathered tells us that high sec is the best place to be earning isk when running combat pve.

Where's this fact at?

I also highly suggest you share your technique with CCP since you apparently have not only found a fool proof bot detection method but you're also able to count every single one and know the exact locations.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#89 - 2014-02-28 09:59:16 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

WoW "catered to the casuals" from day one. Wow was never hardcore and vanilla raiding was a joke. All you needed was 15 or so people to somewhat know what to do for the 40 man raid to work.


And like I said, they've poisoned the well as far as their previously existing IPs were concerned.

Blizzard's last good game was Brood War.

They poisoned it so much they ended up with the biggest most profitable MMOrpg in history.


And like I said, they are the exception to the rule. Or are you telling me that every other MMO in history has died a miserable death by coincidence?
Millions of reasons. Almost all if not all not for the reason you wish.


Keep telling yourself that. All those themeparks, faded into obscurity or the arguably worse free to play, while EVE alone has kept up continued growth. Which is something even WoW can't say for itself, since it's at about half the subs it was during Wrath.

But it can't be that commonality that they all share, nope, not one bit. It has to be that WoW wasn't a fluke, and that themeparks actually are a good idea somehow, it's just all those trivial little details that killed every other MMO out there.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#90 - 2014-02-28 10:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
ashley Eoner wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Em arr Roids wrote:



Because you guys are greedy and have way more space than you can actually use or need for that matter!


We have 30k pilots in the CFC alone so it stands to reason that at least one area of our space would have a large number of people in it. Fact is that the only place you will find a lot of our pilots is either vfk (our market hub) and our deployment system. Just about all of our space is empty.

Also we have the fact that 80% of bots are to be found in high sec. So if null is where the isk is why are almost all of the bots in high sec?

We have also run some very detailed tests to see exactly how much isk each area will bring in per pilot and high sec will earn you more. All evidence gathered tells us that high sec is the best place to be earning isk when running combat pve.

Where's this fact at?

I also highly suggest you share your technique with CCP since you apparently have not only found a fool proof bot detection method but you're also able to count every single one.


CCP are the ones who told us where the bots live. Turns out caldari space is the most bot infested space of all.
ashley Eoner
#91 - 2014-02-28 10:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Keep telling yourself that. All those themeparks, faded into obscurity or the arguably worse free to play, while EVE alone has kept up continued growth. Which is something even WoW can't say for itself, since it's at about half the subs it was during Wrath.

But it can't be that commonality that they all share, nope, not one bit. It has to be that WoW wasn't a fluke, and that themeparks actually are a good idea somehow, it's just all those trivial little details that killed every other MMO out there.
For every "themepark" hundreds of sandbox games faded too. As much as I hate blizzard WoW is not at half the subs it had in WOTLK..


EDIT : I used to love Blizzard but after they released SC2 with no LAN play and the D3 fiasco I've lost all faith in them as a developer.
ashley Eoner
#92 - 2014-02-28 10:09:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
baltec1 wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Em arr Roids wrote:



Because you guys are greedy and have way more space than you can actually use or need for that matter!


We have 30k pilots in the CFC alone so it stands to reason that at least one area of our space would have a large number of people in it. Fact is that the only place you will find a lot of our pilots is either vfk (our market hub) and our deployment system. Just about all of our space is empty.

Also we have the fact that 80% of bots are to be found in high sec. So if null is where the isk is why are almost all of the bots in high sec?

We have also run some very detailed tests to see exactly how much isk each area will bring in per pilot and high sec will earn you more. All evidence gathered tells us that high sec is the best place to be earning isk when running combat pve.

Where's this fact at?

I also highly suggest you share your technique with CCP since you apparently have not only found a fool proof bot detection method but you're also able to count every single one.


CCP are the ones who told us where the bots live. Turns out caldari space is the most bot infested space of all.
So you're saying that CCP is in league with the botters then. Since CCP knows where all the bots operate and how many there are then clearly the only reason there's still bots is because CCP is letting them run free.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#93 - 2014-02-28 10:11:37 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Keep telling yourself that. All those themeparks, faded into obscurity or the arguably worse free to play, while EVE alone has kept up continued growth. Which is something even WoW can't say for itself, since it's at about half the subs it was during Wrath.

But it can't be that commonality that they all share, nope, not one bit. It has to be that WoW wasn't a fluke, and that themeparks actually are a good idea somehow, it's just all those trivial little details that killed every other MMO out there.
For every "themepark" hundreds of sandbox games faded too. As much as I hate blizzard WoW is not at half the subs it had in WOTLK..




"hundreds" for every one themepark game?

Oh, please do prove that wasn't a lie. It's late, but I will make the time to wait for you.

And yes, WoW is at half the subs it had at peak during Wrath(which was a staggering 15 million). That would be according to their last quarterly report. You see, thanks to the fact that the Mrs. plays WoW and keeps up with all of that, I actually have numbers that I didn't pull out of my ass.

So let's hear about those "hundreds" of sandbox games that died, please. By my count you're looking at about seven thousand, and that's a generous estimate.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
ashley Eoner
#94 - 2014-02-28 10:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Keep telling yourself that. All those themeparks, faded into obscurity or the arguably worse free to play, while EVE alone has kept up continued growth. Which is something even WoW can't say for itself, since it's at about half the subs it was during Wrath.

But it can't be that commonality that they all share, nope, not one bit. It has to be that WoW wasn't a fluke, and that themeparks actually are a good idea somehow, it's just all those trivial little details that killed every other MMO out there.
For every "themepark" hundreds of sandbox games faded too. As much as I hate blizzard WoW is not at half the subs it had in WOTLK..




"hundreds" for every one themepark game?

Oh, please do prove that wasn't a lie. It's late, but I will make the time to wait for you.

And yes, WoW is at half the subs it had at peak during Wrath(which was a staggering 15 million). That would be according to their last quarterly report. You see, thanks to the fact that the Mrs. plays WoW and keeps up with all of that, I actually have numbers that I didn't pull out of my ass.

So let's hear about those "hundreds" of sandbox games that died, please. By my count you're looking at about seven thousand, and that's a generous estimate.
Themeparks are a recent adventure. There's been thousands times more regular sandbox style MMOs released since the early 90s then themeparks.

Blizzard's numbers were a peak of 12m and current numbers are 7.8m with an upswing of +200k players. That's not half and not even close to half.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#95 - 2014-02-28 10:14:05 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Keep telling yourself that. All those themeparks, faded into obscurity or the arguably worse free to play, while EVE alone has kept up continued growth. Which is something even WoW can't say for itself, since it's at about half the subs it was during Wrath.

But it can't be that commonality that they all share, nope, not one bit. It has to be that WoW wasn't a fluke, and that themeparks actually are a good idea somehow, it's just all those trivial little details that killed every other MMO out there.
For every "themepark" hundreds of sandbox games faded too. As much as I hate blizzard WoW is not at half the subs it had in WOTLK..




"hundreds" for every one themepark game?

Oh, please do prove that wasn't a lie. It's late, but I will make the time to wait for you.

And yes, WoW is at half the subs it had at peak during Wrath(which was a staggering 15 million). That would be according to their last quarterly report. You see, thanks to the fact that the Mrs. plays WoW and keeps up with all of that, I actually have numbers that I didn't pull out of my ass.

So let's hear about those "hundreds" of sandbox games that died, please. By my count you're looking at about seven thousand, and that's a generous estimate.
Themeparks are a recent adventure. There's been thousands times more regular sandbox style MMOs released since the early 90s.


You hear that, everyone?

Thousands of times more sandbox MMOs released since the 90's.

You'll have no problem proving that, then.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#96 - 2014-02-28 10:15:41 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Em arr Roids wrote:



Because you guys are greedy and have way more space than you can actually use or need for that matter!


We have 30k pilots in the CFC alone so it stands to reason that at least one area of our space would have a large number of people in it. Fact is that the only place you will find a lot of our pilots is either vfk (our market hub) and our deployment system. Just about all of our space is empty.

Also we have the fact that 80% of bots are to be found in high sec. So if null is where the isk is why are almost all of the bots in high sec?

We have also run some very detailed tests to see exactly how much isk each area will bring in per pilot and high sec will earn you more. All evidence gathered tells us that high sec is the best place to be earning isk when running combat pve.

Where's this fact at?

I also highly suggest you share your technique with CCP since you apparently have not only found a fool proof bot detection method but you're also able to count every single one.


CCP are the ones who told us where the bots live. Turns out caldari space is the most bot infested space of all.
So you're saying that CCP is in league with the botters then. Since CCP knows where all the bots operate and how many there are then clearly the only reason there's still bots is because CCP is letting them run free.


That was a very moronic thing to say.
ashley Eoner
#97 - 2014-02-28 10:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
baltec1 wrote:

That was a very moronic thing to say.
You're the one that made the astounding claim. I'm just wondering why you think CCP is in bed with the botters. It's quite a conspiracy you have going there.



Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You hear that, everyone?

Thousands of times more sandbox MMOs released since the 90's.

You'll have no problem proving that, then.

It appears that you're not familiar with oldschool gaming. Do you know what a MUD is or a BBS?
Salvos Rhoska
#98 - 2014-02-28 10:18:57 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
I Riven I wrote:
Take level 4 missions OUT of highsec.
As well as decrease highsec incursions payment to 1\3.



In Exchange for taking level 4 missions out of high sec and decreasing high security incursion payments.

You will concede to cutting concord response timers in half and limit the amount of active war declarations a corporation/alliance may have to 2.

Give and take. Be fair.


Unrelated items. Each element is a different factor of balance and is to be considered independantly.
This kind of "trsding of advantage" that you endorse is antithetical to good design.

CONCORD timers are fine as they are in high-sec. CONCORDs function is punitive and indirectly limitingnof ganking as a dunctiin of how many ships/players you jeed to organise in order to succeed before CONCORS arrives. Yournsuggestion implies that CONCORD should act preventatively, which is not their function.

War decs are, again, an unrelated issues and being discussed in its own context.

Balance is not a matter of comparinf your interests with mine. It is a matter of a better game for all.

The kind of "advantage trading" your position implies, is abhorrent to good game design.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#99 - 2014-02-28 10:20:46 UTC
Oh look! Another "nerf highsec" thread. This is new and exciting!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#100 - 2014-02-28 10:22:06 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

That was a very moronic thing to say.
You're the one that made the astounding claim. I'm just wondering why you think CCP is in bed with the botters. It's quite a conspiracy you have going there.


All he said was that CCP themselves has said that the vast majority of accounts banned for botting were highseccers.

You're the one who decided to take it off on a tangent he didn't imply, in order to attack a strawman.

But when your only basic point is such stupendous lies like "thousands of sandbox MMOs failed for every one themepark MMO", I'd be trying to attack a strawman too.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.