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[Rubicon 1.3] T1 Frigate and Cruiser Balance Pass

First post First post
Author
Ultimate Tales
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#161 - 2014-02-27 11:45:41 UTC
I love Caracal changes! I go buy few now... THX CCP! Fix this reload time on rapid light missile launchers... Right now you kill one assault frigate and die when you reload 35 seconds and watch how your shield going down. If you wanna kill cruiser you need go for coffe, cigarets before you open pvp.
Lilliana Stelles
#162 - 2014-02-27 13:35:10 UTC
Jeez.

These were rebalanced so recently.
Stop being World of Warcraft and leave well enough alone.
We don't need everything balanced every patch.

Flavor of the month garbage.

Not a forum alt. 

Mr Floydy
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#163 - 2014-02-27 13:47:56 UTC
Really is no pleasing some people.

Hi guys, welcome to Eve where regularly players ***** and moan constantly because the Devs are trying to make the game more fun for everyone. Keep it up CCP, I like the Amarr armour changes!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#164 - 2014-02-27 13:51:07 UTC
mm... the moa HP buff is nice along with much needed speed but... the attack cruisers could really use some HP themselves they are so damn fragile... also perhaps you could buff the stabbers speed so it is faster than the vagabond and or nerf the vagas speed .. the HAC's are supposed too be slower than the attack cruisers..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#165 - 2014-02-27 14:47:53 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:
Really is no pleasing some people.


Quite...

Old CCP: makes imperfect changes, leaves certain ships broken for years, people complain about lack of reviewing/tweaking...

New CCP: makes imperfect changes, reviews and tweaks them after a few months, people complain about reviewing/tweaking...

Lol
Lugalzagezi666
#166 - 2014-02-27 15:40:02 UTC
Im wondering, why did they even bother with changing anything on punisher - and then keeping it 2 mids...
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#167 - 2014-02-27 15:41:55 UTC
there was no mention of the other amarr frigates ... they all plate fit too ..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

seth Hendar
I love you miners
#168 - 2014-02-27 15:50:54 UTC
Elewem wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


RIFTER:
Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus
Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus
+10 m/s velocity
+0.01 inertia



Will I have to ship my USB desk ornament back to you for the changes to be made, or will they occur when I patch? :D

you will need to plug the USB rifter after the update hit, then run the "usb_rifter_update.exe" located in /bin
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#169 - 2014-02-27 16:15:00 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
Elewem wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


RIFTER:
Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus
Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus
+10 m/s velocity
+0.01 inertia



Will I have to ship my USB desk ornament back to you for the changes to be made, or will they occur when I patch? :D

you will need to plug the USB rifter after the update hit, then run the "usb_rifter_update.exe" located in /bin

Followed by "repair.exe". If that doesn't work, reinstall your operating system and try again.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
#170 - 2014-02-27 16:59:53 UTC
\o/ for a rebalancing pass! Big smile

On a more critical note: please change the rifter to the attack class. Nerf its HP accordingly.

More importantly: you're forgetting the vigil! At the very least give it some flexibility and give it turret hardpoints. ;)
Platypus King
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#171 - 2014-02-27 17:04:46 UTC
Thank you so much for that caracal buff. Everything rise ruined is fixed by fozzie and the law of inertia
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#172 - 2014-02-27 17:11:27 UTC
Onnen Mentar wrote:
On a more critical note: please change the rifter to the attack class. Nerf its HP accordingly.

I didn't know the rifter ever was attack class. It's the heaviest hitter and as i recall was always combat. The attack ships were the breacher and the slasher. I don't see why minmatar need a third attack frigate or why the rifter needs to get nerfed.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#173 - 2014-02-27 17:28:54 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Jeez.

These were rebalanced so recently.
Stop being World of Warcraft and leave well enough alone.
We don't need everything balanced every patch.

Flavor of the month garbage.


Well that's too bad because rebalancing is now a process, not a project with a defined end-state. It's going to continue indefinitely.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Mario Putzo
#174 - 2014-02-27 17:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Malcanis wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Jeez.

These were rebalanced so recently.
Stop being World of Warcraft and leave well enough alone.
We don't need everything balanced every patch.

Flavor of the month garbage.


Well that's too bad because rebalancing is now a process, not a project with a defined end-state. It's going to continue indefinitely.


Would agree with you if these changes didn't come off as "we need to change something/anything" type changes. Nothing really noteworthy at all as far as balance is concerned within this thread.

IMO it amounts to wasted time, which is pretty **** when you consider there are some 80K dudes waiting for a meaningful sov system overhaul and have been requesting CCP work on the sov system for several year now.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#175 - 2014-02-27 18:16:27 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Onnen Mentar wrote:
On a more critical note: please change the rifter to the attack class. Nerf its HP accordingly.

I didn't know the rifter ever was attack class. It's the heaviest hitter and as i recall was always combat. The attack ships were the breacher and the slasher. I don't see why minmatar need a third attack frigate or why the rifter needs to get nerfed.

Each race has two combat frigates and one attack frigates. The Minmatar combat frigates are the Rifter and the Breacher. The breacher may be "light" and fast-ish, but it does have a tank bonus, and it lacks the attack frigate feature of reduced cap usage for points. The Slasher has this bonus, as it is an attack frigate.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#176 - 2014-02-27 18:35:33 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Jeez.

These were rebalanced so recently.
Stop being World of Warcraft and leave well enough alone.
We don't need everything balanced every patch.

Flavor of the month garbage.


Well that's too bad because rebalancing is now a process, not a project with a defined end-state. It's going to continue indefinitely.


Would agree with you if these changes didn't come off as "we need to change something/anything" type changes. Nothing really noteworthy at all as far as balance is concerned within this thread.

IMO it amounts to wasted time, which is pretty **** when you consider there are some 80K dudes waiting for a meaningful sov system overhaul and have been requesting CCP work on the sov system for several year now.


Small changes imply that the previous rebalance was close to the target. That should make you happy.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Lilliana Stelles
#177 - 2014-02-27 19:27:07 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Jeez.

These were rebalanced so recently.
Stop being World of Warcraft and leave well enough alone.
We don't need everything balanced every patch.

Flavor of the month garbage.


Well that's too bad because rebalancing is now a process, not a project with a defined end-state. It's going to continue indefinitely.


I feel like the whole thing was provoked by a vocal minority post-incarna, and CCP's mislead thoughts that their game would die if they didn't have quarterly rebalances of various ships. Old feature iteration is great, but this is excessive and sandbox-breaking when the tools available to you are constantly subject to the whims of CCP intervention. You find something that works, and then they go back and just rearrange it needlessly.

Not a forum alt. 

Lilliana Stelles
#178 - 2014-02-27 19:37:46 UTC
It's the extremism of the game that keeps it interesting. Covops titans (before the ship restrictions were added), 10mn afterburner frigates; things that a tiny little change of 5% powergrid can royally mess up.

Less than 12% of Eve players vote for CSM.
An equally small percentage are regular forum users.
Yet after every rebalance help chat becomes flooded with complaints of "Why can't I do ____ anymore WTF guys!?"

CCP is pretending that players want something that the majority of them never asked for.

Not a forum alt. 

scimichar
Deep Hole Explorers of New Eden
#179 - 2014-02-27 20:32:07 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Covops titans (before the ship restrictions were added)


You just invalidated your entire argument by thinking covops titans were a good idea.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#180 - 2014-02-27 20:42:46 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
It's the extremism of the game that keeps it interesting. Covops titans (before the ship restrictions were added), 10mn afterburner frigates; things that a tiny little change of 5% powergrid can royally mess up.


While I get your point that it's bad to stifle player innovation and creativity by changing stuff around too often, it is equally bad to allow a state in which there is only one clear "best" solution to problems. That might cause innovation and creativity at first, but then becomes a rigid meta that just gets everyone to be doing that one "best" thing, while swathes of other content are just ignored.

As a concrete example, the state frigates were in for years had the Rifter being the king of PvP. There was no innovation, no choice, and a very shallow pool of new options and new strategies to try out, simply because everything else was that much worse. Post-tiericide, for any given task that a frigate may perform, there are multiple contenders, of which none is clearly the best in all/most situations. There are multiple good brawlers, multiple good fleet tacklers, multiple good scram range kiters, etc.

The balancing passes that CCP is doing now addresses edge cases where a ship is overshadowing others in the same role "pools" (Vexor), or a ship that simply is not good enough to make it into role "pools" (Punisher). These sorts of changes preserve choice and variety, and over time offer lots of opportunities for inventing new strategies.

Side note: 5% is a very big change.

Lilliana Stelles wrote:
CCP is pretending that players want something that the majority of them never asked for.


CCP have statistics, routes of feedback, and other information that you and I do not have access to. If CCP were to listen to vocal minorities, a lot of stuff would have been implemented a long time ago. Refer to this thread here for what the vocal minorities want: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6342&find=unread

Last CSM election, CCP put adverts in the Eve launcher, sent e-mails to player accounts, and publicized widely about the election, complete with lots of details about each candidate. After all of that, I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for the 88% of non-voters who are surprised that not speaking their minds leads to them not being listened to.

Malcanis here can probably give you a better perspective on that though.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)