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What does the Phantasm even do?

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Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#401 - 2014-02-25 18:37:29 UTC
Whats the point of having a tracking buff on a frigate?

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

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Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#402 - 2014-02-25 19:19:11 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Whats the point of having a tracking buff on a frigate?




Orbit something inside scram range while using a 100% Bonused AB and you will probably see.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#403 - 2014-02-25 19:39:21 UTC
No, not realy.

When the tracking of small guns would be that bad you would not be able to hit anything while using a MWD or flying an Interceptor.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#404 - 2014-02-25 19:48:12 UTC
Damien White wrote:
No, not realy.

When the tracking of small guns would be that bad you would not be able to hit anything while using a MWD or flying an Interceptor.



When using DLP's or Gatlings sure but the bonus will be noticeable when fitting Small Focused pulses. Anyone who fits Beams on it will definitely want the bonus too.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#405 - 2014-02-25 20:05:19 UTC
Then simply dont.

Allthoug it is kind of off topic but when you cant handle the transversal either slow down or dont use long range weaponry in closerange combat.

I have jet to see how the AB bonus works but this can make the succubus an interesting interceptor like vessel allthough we have already some pretty good interceptors called ... well ... interceptors.

But a tracking bonus might be a powerfull ability for a battleship, on a frigate you hardly face an opponent that makes this even remotely as powerfull as it is on a battleship. Matter of fact, I have jet to find a target I cant hit in a propperly fittet (i.e. no Railguns without tracking mod) frigate even without tracking bonus.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#406 - 2014-02-25 20:10:38 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Then simply dont.

Allthoug it is kind of off topic but when you cant handle the transversal either slow down or dont use long range weaponry in closerange combat.

I have jet to see how the AB bonus works but this can make the succubus an interesting interceptor like vessel allthough we have already some pretty good interceptors called ... well ... interceptors.

But a tracking bonus might be a powerfull ability for a battleship, on a frigate you hardly face an opponent that makes this even remotely as powerfull as it is on a battleship. Matter of fact, I have jet to find a target I cant hit in a propperly fittet (i.e. no Railguns without tracking mod) frigate even without tracking bonus.



First you tell me to slow down, which makes me take more damage and then you talk about your use of tracking mods. Both of which are terrible arguments against a tracking bonus. Not needing to slow down is a bonus and/or having another free slot because you don't need a previously fit tracking mod is a bonus.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#407 - 2014-02-26 20:20:39 UTC
Well, a tracking bonus for railguns or artillery actually would make sense because out of all the longrange weapons lasers have already the best tracking, hence why you "can" (already) use small beam lasers without tracking mods but "need" to use some on Arty fitts. And even then it is because of range.

A Wolf has, with All V less tracking with artillery than any unbonused beam fitting.


Just saying, out of all the possible boni ingame, a tracking bonus is the least useable on a frigate that already uses the best tracking "longrange" weapons.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#408 - 2014-02-26 20:24:49 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Well, a tracking bonus for railguns or artillery actually would make sense because out of all the longrange weapons lasers have already the best tracking, hence why you "can" (already) use small beam lasers without tracking mods but "need" to use some on Arty fitts. And even then it is because of range.

A Wolf has, with All V less tracking with artillery than any unbonused beam fitting.


Just saying, out of all the possible boni ingame, a tracking bonus is the least useable on a frigate that already uses the best tracking "longrange" weapons.



Except that the frig in question will be flying at faster than normal speeds and possibly doing so while in Scram-Kite range. Tracking bonuses(Boni is not a word) are very strong and few if any ships wouldn't benefit from having one.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#409 - 2014-02-26 20:34:51 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Tracking bonuses(Boni is not a word)


It is, but not in english :P


Anyway, when you go for shortrange engagements dont fit longrange weapons and yes, there is such a thing like having to much tracking.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#410 - 2014-02-26 20:41:08 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Tracking bonuses(Boni is not a word)


It is, but not in english :P


Anyway, when you go for shortrange engagements dont fit longrange weapons and yes, there is such a thing like having to much tracking.




Yes boni is a word... in German.


Being able to use long range weapons inside of scram range also means with insta-switch ammo you can defend yourself against kiters with the same fit. Also helps hit other AB frigs and lessens the hurt from TD's. I like the bonus on the Succubus and I believe you agree that it is a very good bonus for the Phantasm and Nightmare. So if the goal is to have consistent bonuses for the Sansha line, I see no reason to change it.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#411 - 2014-02-26 20:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Damien White
Thats my point, having the same bonus for all three ship does not work and sometimes you need to adjust things a little. The Sisters of Eve Ships do not have the same buffs so why should all other factions follow this (stupid) rule?
(And yes, the Nestor is "not good" but still, it has a different role than the other two)



The Cruor had the same problem with its bonus for energy neutralizers. No one used it because no one needed this bonus.

EDIT: Oh, and they removed the tracking bonus for the rifter although artillery based weapons have the worst tracking ingame. I wonder why.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#412 - 2014-02-26 20:57:48 UTC
I think the Cruor will end up fine In spite of it's bonuses. The Range on Scorch makes up for a lot of deficiencies. That said it does serve as a good example of your complaint. I suppose my point is that I think it works for the succubus. I like the tracking bonus and have several ideas of how to make use of it. It is most likely the exception to the rule.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#413 - 2014-02-26 21:00:25 UTC
Speaking of the Cruor, when they give the same bonus to the Bhaalgorn, the Bhaalgorn will be totaly OP.

I am talking about the...

"Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty"

Bonus.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#414 - 2014-02-26 21:03:42 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Speaking of the Cruor, when they give the same bonus to the Bhaalgorn, the Bhaalgorn will be totaly OP.

I am talking about the...

"Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty"

Bonus.



For sure. That is a crazy amount of free cap they will have to play with.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#415 - 2014-03-27 00:19:17 UTC
This thread needs to be at the top.

Does anyone actually use a Phantasm for anything besides lvl 2s?

I would love to hear fits. I have hulls, and I want to use them.

Because spikes.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#416 - 2014-03-27 00:56:45 UTC
The Pincushion needs +1 turret and a capacitor at least as good as a NOmen.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#417 - 2014-03-27 01:24:35 UTC
If it's bonuses are in line with the proposed Succubus buff the Phantasm could be in very good shape. Although a few stats will need to be buffed as well.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#418 - 2014-03-27 04:18:49 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
If it's bonuses are in line with the proposed Succubus buff the Phantasm could be in very good shape. Although a few stats will need to be buffed as well.




Link?

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#419 - 2014-03-27 07:53:56 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Whats the point of having a tracking buff on a frigate?

So the other frigates don't get under your guns? It actually happens with lasers, with even the smallest laser having worse tracking than the largest autocannon. That's even before getting into blasters or the sort. Then add on the fact that things like the Slasher exist with small sigs, high speeds, tracking bonuses, and tracking disruptors make for a very bad day if you can't control them. Speaking from experience here, I've even had Merlins get under the guns of my perfect skilled SFPL Coercer. And my 25% larger sig made it possible for him to track me, even with 6% less tracking. Now imagine those guns on a frigate with a massive afterburner speed boost and a smaller tracking boost in orbit of a target. Not a chance in the world of landing a hit.

Oh, but even if the bonus didn't help with Multifrequency at all, I'd be more than happy if it made Conflagration a more viable choice on a larger variety of targets.


Glathull wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
If it's bonuses are in line with the proposed Succubus buff the Phantasm could be in very good shape. Although a few stats will need to be buffed as well.




Link?

Proposed pirate frigate changes here.
It's also at the end of the last page
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#420 - 2014-03-28 01:13:14 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Damien White wrote:
Whats the point of having a tracking buff on a frigate?

So the other frigates don't get under your guns? It actually happens with lasers, with even the smallest laser having worse tracking than the largest autocannon. That's even before getting into blasters or the sort. Then add on the fact that things like the Slasher exist with small sigs, high speeds, tracking bonuses, and tracking disruptors make for a very bad day if you can't control them. Speaking from experience here, I've even had Merlins get under the guns of my perfect skilled SFPL Coercer. And my 25% larger sig made it possible for him to track me, even with 6% less tracking. Now imagine those guns on a frigate with a massive afterburner speed boost and a smaller tracking boost in orbit of a target. Not a chance in the world of landing a hit.

Oh, but even if the bonus didn't help with Multifrequency at all, I'd be more than happy if it made Conflagration a more viable choice on a larger variety of targets.


Glathull wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
If it's bonuses are in line with the proposed Succubus buff the Phantasm could be in very good shape. Although a few stats will need to be buffed as well.




Link?

Proposed pirate frigate changes here.
It's also at the end of the last page



Thank you!

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon