These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

First post First post First post
Author
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#201 - 2014-02-25 17:03:04 UTC
There is only reduced damage for supercapital guns shooting at smaller signatures. There is no effect on dread guns.
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2014-02-25 17:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
I like the drone concept. Consider implementing it with all ships.

But honestly every droneboat should have a secondary dronebay and bandwidth for just ewar drones. Meaning a vexor could potentially launch more than 5 drones, but the ones in excess of that 5 would be ewar.

But let's go straight at the worm. If doing the above, the secondary dronebay would be 10, ewar bandwidth 5. So it could now launch 2 dps drones, and 1 ewar drone (ECM drone, target painting drone , etc).

So the drone frigs could have a 5 ewar bandwidth, cruisers 20, battlecruisers 40, battleships 75.

The max flight of ewar drones would be 3, regardless of ship.

This only works if and only if all ships get similar drone treatment as the worm.

There are a lot of options here (from reducing amount of drones needed for droneboats, to creation and addition to use of all those useless ewar drones).

Yaay!!!!

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#203 - 2014-02-25 17:05:11 UTC
Destoya wrote:
Also I must ask how you intend to deal with the Gila and Rattlesnake if you are going to give them a 300% bonus and 50m3 bandwith to launch two large size drones, since 5 mediums/lights bonused like that would be incredibly powerful against smaller targets as well as targets in the same size class.


Gila: 300% bonus to medium drone damage.

Rattlesnake: 300% bonus to heavy drone damage.

Leave the bonus off sentries, and RattleCat (SlowSnake?) fleets are not so much of an issue.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#204 - 2014-02-25 17:05:50 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
I like the drone concept. Consider implementing it with all ships.



it makes drone ships less expensive, but it also diminishes the supposed advantages of drones, it's stupid.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#205 - 2014-02-25 17:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Dersen Lowery wrote:

Leave the bonus off sentries, and RattleCat (SlowSnake?) fleets are not so much of an issue.


ppl who run missions with rattler like myself will cry oceans of tears, and then blow the dust off their domi's.

theres a thought...do uber drones get uber shield recharge again?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Vestus Regula
Moratorium Inc.
Loading
#206 - 2014-02-25 17:11:06 UTC
Not sure I like the Sansha changes. First, I'm under the impression current Ship damage bonuses are multiplicative (the flat 100% and the 5% / level), thus reducing overall damage. Second, because the afterburner bonus, as a few people pointed out earlier, make them a sort of laser-based (and thus less versatile) Angel, with huge signatures to boot. You could explore other options, such as:

Giving them 4% shield resist/level or shield amount/level (maybe shuffling a mid slot or two to lows, to avoid uber tanks and open room for more damage /tracking mods).

Making them armor based tanks and giving another Caldarish bonus such as (and don't hate me for it), ecm - thus creating laser and armor based, more durable ECM ships.

Giving them bonus cloaked speed / reduced cloak delay (techy, but not conflicting with SoE, since they use covert cloaks and sansha ships wouldn't).

Giving them some other unique bonus, such as %cap / level, reduced mwd sig or something like it.


As for the Guristas changes, I've also got mixed feelings. Yes, they get a bit more potential damage, but specific damage bonuses suck and the reduced bandwidth would actually reduce the survivability of the Worm and the Gila (assuming the later also gets a similar change), since they wouldn't be able to field 5 ecm drones anymore in order to escape from a tight spot (which, let's face it, it's their biggest asset, since caldari hull in general are amongst the slowest for every ship category).

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#207 - 2014-02-25 17:11:08 UTC
Honestly, I am disappointed. I know that from the Dev perspective its all about pure PvP and no brain sweat is spent on actually paying attention to the game part of the game... but seriously, think about it once in a while.

Each pirate faction is pulling design specs from an empire faction, and then adding something extra, or should be.

So why not do this with Sansha:
25% bonus to Energy Turret damage/ Amarr level
5% literally anything caldari themed / Caldari level

Role Bonus:
100% Afterburner Velocity Bonus
37.5 % small energy tracking bonus



Guristas is even more puzzling. Why not:
60% bonus to light drone damage and hitpoints /Gallente level
4% sheild resist / Caldari level

Role bonus:
50% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage

The others are not too bad, with Angels you get a weird Gallente bonus to tracking on projectiles but at least many Gallente ships do feature a tracking bonus on their turrets. Using that same logic you could put an optimal bonus on Sansha lasers under the Caldari skill, making that ship a really nasty ranged monster.
Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
#208 - 2014-02-25 17:12:05 UTC
Why not something like: This

Where you could make faction named bastion modules or simply use the current module for battleships to add function to them. Really dislike your Gurista changes althought the Kinetic-Thermal missile bonus idea would be really nice! Sanshas and Bloods look great, good thinking there.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#209 - 2014-02-25 17:15:29 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Isn't a theme of "two powerful drones" basically saying "make a drone assist fleet based on these"

+1.

limit drone assist to 50 / bunny

revamp a whole ship line so it now has a setup using 2 drones bringing the DPS of 5 (or more?)

iseewhatyoudidthereRoll
Zomgnomnom
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#210 - 2014-02-25 17:15:57 UTC
Quote:


There's reduced damage for the over-sized guns but Bonused Target Painters can bring the sig-resolution of a Frigate well into the realm where a Dread will wipe it off the field easily, sometimes with only one gun depending on the tank of the Frigate, and only the most hilariously over-tanked T1 or T2 Cruiser can survive a Moros's alpha with webs and TPs on it.


This just in, a solo frigate or cruiser vs a gang of ships loses....

Honestly, if you have 4 people webbing and painting you it doesn't matter what hits you. Your odds of survival are slim regardless at that point. The fact that it requires several people to pin you to the point the Dread can hit you IS the balancing factor.
sten mattson
Red Sky Morning
Two Maidens One Chalice
#211 - 2014-02-25 17:16:21 UTC
the AB speed bonus was deemed to OP for the assault frigates , what makes the dev team think that double that bonus for the succubus is gonna make it balanced?

granted, the succubus doesnt have the tank of an AF , but now it has the same firepower as the slicer with a tracking bonus. However, an AB on a succubus will just be a GTFO button since it reaches MWD speeds without even overheating.

looking forward to testing these on the test server, as i just recently trained all racial frigs to V last week :D

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!

Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2014-02-25 17:16:22 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
I like the drone concept. Consider implementing it with all ships.



it makes drone ships less expensive, but it also diminishes the supposed advantages of drones, it's stupid.


That advantage wod be lagging the field till people crash?

Drone revamp has to happen, and it is. Main part is volume of drones itself.

I look forward to the changes

Yaay!!!!

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#213 - 2014-02-25 17:17:02 UTC
Zomgnomnom wrote:
Quote:


There's reduced damage for the over-sized guns but Bonused Target Painters can bring the sig-resolution of a Frigate well into the realm where a Dread will wipe it off the field easily, sometimes with only one gun depending on the tank of the Frigate, and only the most hilariously over-tanked T1 or T2 Cruiser can survive a Moros's alpha with webs and TPs on it.


This just in, a solo frigate or cruiser vs a gang of ships loses....

Honestly, if you have 4 people webbing and painting you it doesn't matter what hits you. Your odds of survival are slim regardless at that point. The fact that it requires several people to pin you to the point the Dread can hit you IS the balancing factor.


It requires 1 person webbing you.
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2014-02-25 17:17:14 UTC
sten mattson wrote:
the AB speed bonus was deemed to OP for the assault frigates , what makes the dev team think that double that bonus for the succubus is gonna make it balanced?

granted, the succubus doesnt have the tank of an AF , but now it has the same firepower as the slicer with a tracking bonus. However, an AB on a succubus will just be a GTFO button since it reaches MWD speeds without even overheating.

looking forward to testing these on the test server, as i just recently trained all racial frigs to V last week :D


I'm guessing they think that 1 pirate ship won't kill all of eve...

Yaay!!!!

CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#215 - 2014-02-25 17:18:08 UTC
I must say it is nice to read this thread, although surely with this much happiness I've done something wrong...

Anyway! A few points on some things I see coming up a lot:

  • The Succubus bonuses are on the wrong race skill - yes! I will flip that around immediately.

  • We need a missile based pirate faction - yes! We didn't want to use an existing faction for this for a few different reasons (Imagine the rage if Angel turned into missiles or Guristas just became Caldari), but we would like to address it as soon as possible. I don't know when that will be, but it won't be never.

  • Why not ewar drone bonus for Guristas? - ewar drones are kind of a mess currently and we don't want to explicitly commit ships to being bonused for them until we solve that.

  • The Cruor range bonuses are out of whack - yes! The last iteration actually had the Cruor setup with an energy warfare range bonus. In the end we just found too many problems with that version and feel a lot better about this one, even though some times it may seem awkward. The vampire bonus is much more unique and pushes the ships towards a much different play style that should be a lot more interesting than some kind of hybrid ewar support ship that is overshadowed in any one purpose by a tech 2 ship. On top, this bonus set is very solid at all three ship sizes.

  • I'll try to look for some other stuff to respond to but I can't remember other big ones right this second.

    @ccp_rise

    Django Flagg
    Retrograde Orbit
    #216 - 2014-02-25 17:19:36 UTC
    I like the changes in general, but what has always bugged me is, why do Gallente-Minmi still have two options when it comes to pirate ships?

    With the introduction of the Sisters covering Gallente Amarr, we still don't have Minmatar-Caldari skill bonused pirate line. Is it possible with the rebalance that we could see Angels shifted to have their bonus being based off Minmatar-Caldari? (shifting serpentis from gallente goes against lore somewhat)

    It seems unnecessary to introduce new pirate faction line to cover this combination given enough pirate factions exist. The Angels also already cover basic Caldari skill tendencies, such as favoring shield tanking, and preferring optimal range/falloff bonused ships.
    Omnathious Deninard
    Ministry of Silly Walks.
    The Gurlstas Associates
    #217 - 2014-02-25 17:21:17 UTC
    Phoenix Jones wrote:
    TrouserDeagle wrote:
    Phoenix Jones wrote:
    I like the drone concept. Consider implementing it with all ships.



    it makes drone ships less expensive, but it also diminishes the supposed advantages of drones, it's stupid.


    That advantage wod be lagging the field till people crash?

    Drone revamp has to happen, and it is. Main part is volume of drones itself.

    I look forward to the changes

    Is that fact or specultion? Sounds like speculation.

    If any thing, drones need to have there numbers and availability on non-drone ships reduced/removed.

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

    Lugalzagezi666
    #218 - 2014-02-25 17:22:50 UTC
    Giving a drone ship bonus only for 1 type of drones basically means killing its versatility (doesnt mean much for worm, but gila and rattler, thats another thing).

    Web strenght bonus should really be lowered, at least on the bigger hulls.

    Cruor is meh. In its engagement range web strenght bonus was much more powerful, if you are giving it web range bonus, also give it RANGE bonus for neut/nos.

    Ashley Animus
    7th Temporal Lounge
    #219 - 2014-02-25 17:22:54 UTC
    There would be no need to continue the 300% drone bonus on the gila and rattlesnake. Serpentis and Angel ships also don't have a consistant bonus for their damage.

    Daredevil 200%
    Vigilant 75%
    Vindicator 37.5%

    Dramiel 100%
    Cynabal 25% ROF and 10% damage per level
    Machariel 25% ROF and 5% damage per level

    The only consistant ones were sansha and blood and now sansha is leaving blood behind on that too it seems.
    Bertrand Butler
    Cras es Noster
    #220 - 2014-02-25 17:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
    Stop being crybabies, all changes look good...especially if you take into account the state of the hulls before them. I really look forward to the new Worm myself, I think a 10mn AB support frig loadout would be peachy...P

    CCP Rise wrote:
  • We need a missile based pirate faction - yes! We didn't want to use an existing faction for this for a few different reasons (Imagine the rage if Angel turned into missiles or Guristas just became Caldari), but we would like to address it as soon as possible. I don't know when that will be, but it won't be never.

  • Glad to hear that, and thanks for a very nice re-balance thread...can you confirm at this point whether the faction will be one of the known candidates? (Thukker, Mordus Legion) C: