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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-02-25 14:52:01 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
My only two issues are the disparity between web range bonus and neut/nos strength bonus on the Blood ships.

I feel that these should be the same bonus. Either strength or range. Not either or but you guys might be doing that on purpose.

My other issue is the fact that an AB speed bonus on a ship more or less welds and AB to the ship. Especially ships that are supposed to be shield tankers as dual prop shield fits are difficult to do. The bonus is a strong one though. I just don't see the point in fitting a MWD to a sansha ship anymore. hhhmmmmmm. Also, give us True Sansha afterburners to match the ships.



On second thoughts. AB bonus for Sansha is good. When Phatasm gets rebalanced I fully expect it to lose a High slot for a mid and to be given a low slot (as it is missing a slot - 14 vs 15 on other ships)
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#62 - 2014-02-25 14:53:17 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
What we are proposing at the moment is to change the web effectiveness bonus to web range for the Cruor and Ashimmu(which is a broadly useful bonus AND doesn't overlap with Serpentis AND matches the Bhaalgorn)

This made my day.

Awesome!
LT Alter
Ryba.
White Squall.
#63 - 2014-02-25 14:54:04 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Sansha: Sounds cool
Serp: I disagree on the web strength bonus. 1 90% web is equal to 5 normal webs. 2 90% webs is unmatched by any number of normal webs. Simply put, the bonus description (50% stronger) is NOT what the bonus does at all (between 5 and infinity times stronger). I would nerf the web strength to 75%, and then give the line a set of application bonuses (tracking and falloff for all of them). We had a massive thread on there discussing 90% web bonuses. Simply put, 90% webs allow you to hit a maximally sig tanked interceptor with large guns, even assuming perfect piloting from the interceptor. Its a broken bonus.


While this bonus can feel overpowered in that way, the main thing that makes it such an amazing bonus is the fact that it's scale ability is reverse to that of what most ships in eve end up, by that I mean when applied to larger fleets the web bonus is less and less important. While in smaller fleets it becomes more and more important. For this reason alone I believe it is one of the few bonuses in eve that need to stay as is, simply for the reason that they help smaller groups against bigger groups.

The fact that a vindicator can hit a frigate isn't really a large problem, it's certainly not prevalent enough to outweigh the good factors of the 90% webs.
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2014-02-25 14:56:25 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
also any chance of reducing prices on faction ships in general? paying 50 mil plus for a frig seems excessive


The market (i.e. the players) decides the value of the pirate faction ships, not CCP. It costs practically nothing to build a pirate frigate if you have the BPC and about 10mil to build a cruiser. The price comes from the relative scarcity of the BPCs compared to standard ships, for which you can just by a BPO from an NPC sell order.

Oh and if you're worried about the prices being too high, you're in for a rough ride, because they are most certainly going to go up on a lot of these hulls now that a buff is incoming in the not-so-distant future.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#65 - 2014-02-25 14:58:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
LT Alter wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Sansha: Sounds cool
Serp: I disagree on the web strength bonus. 1 90% web is equal to 5 normal webs. 2 90% webs is unmatched by any number of normal webs. Simply put, the bonus description (50% stronger) is NOT what the bonus does at all (between 5 and infinity times stronger). I would nerf the web strength to 75%, and then give the line a set of application bonuses (tracking and falloff for all of them). We had a massive thread on there discussing 90% web bonuses. Simply put, 90% webs allow you to hit a maximally sig tanked interceptor with large guns, even assuming perfect piloting from the interceptor. Its a broken bonus.


While this bonus can feel overpowered in that way, the main thing that makes it such an amazing bonus is the fact that it's scale ability is reverse to that of what most ships in eve end up, by that I mean when applied to larger fleets the web bonus is less and less important. While in smaller fleets it becomes more and more important. For this reason alone I believe it is one of the few bonuses in eve that need to stay as is, simply for the reason that they help smaller groups against bigger groups.

The fact that a vindicator can hit a frigate isn't really a large problem, it's certainly not prevalent enough to outweigh the good factors of the 90% webs.


In larger fleets, the 90% web is what allows dreads to hit ahacs. And frigates.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#66 - 2014-02-25 14:59:07 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Guristas: This has probably been the hardest faction to figure out. The Rattlesnake and Gila both have their uses but are both overshadowed in many ways by the new Ishtar and Dominix. We wanted Guristas to keep a drone theme but to move in a new and unique direction rather than trying to compete directly with other popular drone ships. As the Worm shows below, we are looking at giving each Guristas ship a bandwidth that allows for only two drones, but a large damage and hitpoint bonus to those drones, leading to very high overall drone damage and toughness. Additionally, the former missile velocity bonus will change to kinetic and thermal missile damage, giving Guristas even more punch. I understand that you will need specifics on the other two Guristas ships to make final opinions on the theme, but for now just look at the Worm and let us know if it seems fun and we'll go from there.

These changes are definitely interesting, and I especially like what you've done with the drones to make the Guristas a bit more unique. Is there an outside possibility of getting 3 new missile-based Pirate ships sometime down the road as well? Where the focus would be missiles, missiles and missiles (in that order). Thanks.
+1 on the changes so far.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2014-02-25 15:00:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
Love the changes!

I'm glad you're keeping the Daredevil web! It is a great bonus when used properly (as that threadnought regarding the change earlier stated).

Look forward to flying everything else.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#68 - 2014-02-25 15:00:52 UTC
For the worm. I would not mind loosing the missile damage if it meant replacing with drone mwd speed and tracking bonus... that would give it a solid niche as a interceptor killer.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2014-02-25 15:00:57 UTC
Welp, looks like I finally gotta start training up those amarr frigate skills.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#70 - 2014-02-25 15:02:45 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
...give gurista a special niche as the only race where ewar drones are good.


This is actually kind of an amazing idea. It fits amazingly well with the Caldari, much like the other pirate factions (try to) fit with the Empire faction they're associated with. It's also nicely anti-Caldari, given that drones are a Gallente thing and Grr Gallente.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#71 - 2014-02-25 15:03:42 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Guristas: This has probably been the hardest faction to figure out. The Rattlesnake and Gila both have their uses but are both overshadowed in many ways by the new Ishtar and Dominix. We wanted Guristas to keep a drone theme but to move in a new and unique direction rather than trying to compete directly with other popular drone ships. As the Worm shows below, we are looking at giving each Guristas ship a bandwidth that allows for only two drones, but a large damage and hitpoint bonus to those drones, leading to very high overall drone damage and toughness. Additionally, the former missile velocity bonus will change to kinetic and thermal missile damage, giving Guristas even more punch. I understand that you will need specifics on the other two Guristas ships to make final opinions on the theme, but for now just look at the Worm and let us know if it seems fun and we'll go from there.

These changes are definitely interesting, and I especially like what you've done with the drones to make the Guristas a bit more unique. Is there an outside possibility of getting 3 new missile-based Pirate ships sometime down the road as well? Where the focus would be missiles, missiles and missiles (in that order). Thanks.
+1 on the changes so far.


Yes please to a missile pirate faction, but please make them armor tanking! I'm tired of my only cruiser-sized missile ship choices for an armor fleet being a bellicose or sacrilege.
Lucy tzung
Doomheim
#72 - 2014-02-25 15:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy tzung
the image looks awesome on the facebook page. I understand from the lore sansha use old terrain tech? might be wrong but would be cool to see a junk fixed old school looking terrain ship. just concept's from real future projects made to look like a pirate hybrid. I really cant wait to see some more artwork though never mind fly one.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#73 - 2014-02-25 15:04:30 UTC
Quote:
For now, I intend to leave it at full strength


it's just one disappointment after another with you guys. anyway, the issue with daredevils is that people abuse links and faction webs for ridiculous range control, for easymode kiting. you should fix this by swapping the hybrid damage bonus for a blaster damage bonus, pushing it toward being a fast honour brawler, which is what it's supposed to be (or you could, you know, fix links). it sure does have a large turret damage bonus. I wonder if that's justified, really not sure.

Quote:
Amarr Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)


I'm giving this one 0/10. first of all, I'm pretty sure the current succubus only has 3 highs, not 4, and second I can see all the FW scrubs armour tanking it already, like they do with breachers and hookbills, because webs and tracking disruptors >>>>>> an extra lowslot, and this is a larger issue I guess. anyway, my main issue is being locked into using an AB, which would be ok if you could fit beams and had a range bonus, but you don't, so you just get auto wrecked by kiting ships, because you're in a dumb inflexible brawler that can't do anything. drop the utility high for a midslot, maybe buff up the tracking bonus if you want it to actually be useful - tracking bonuses are pretty weak generally, and find something else for its amarr frigate bonus. solo-wise, there's also the issue that everyone knows what your fitting is, which alone is a pretty good reason for me to never fly it.

Quote:
Minmatar Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Stasis Webifier range (was 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness)


please stop with the web bonuses, they're really horrible and easily abused and broken by kiting scum with links. also, 3 lows and no armour bonus on a pirate armour frigate? this is a joke, it needs 4 or 5 or something. I'd be more looking at 2 midslot no-web bonus stuff. it also looks like it's still ridiculously slow. I think some thought should go into all of the mobility stats on these ships, because they're pretty inconsistent. some of these things currently are as slow as AFs (which also need to be rebalanced), with nothing to show for it.

Quote:
WORM


I really like this one, except the speed. I would like to have 5 mids though. many shield frigates suffer from this - with the strength of webs (nerf webs pls), you really really cannot afford to not have a web, so you're stuck with a 1 slot tank, which sucks. I hope on the gila, you can bring it down to 20 bandwidth with a massive damage and possibly drone speed bonus, because this heavies on cruisers thing is an absolute joke, and sentries, while OP, are not ideal a lot of the time.

Quote:
DRAMIEL


meh. it's not really bad, I guess, it's just so dull. I get the same thing with the firetail as this ship - it can do so many different fits, but I don't want to fly any of them.. I don't feel they need buffs, I'm just not interested in them at all. I guess I'm just not a scrub.
sabastyian
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#74 - 2014-02-25 15:04:32 UTC
May want to tone down the cruors web a tad, just seems like it could be abused on a ship like that. Beam cruor can get about 110-120 dps at 20-ish km. Someone more adept to frigate kiting could probably get more dps out of it. It'd be like a crow with a web bonus and more damage.
Taritura
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-02-25 15:04:44 UTC
Another excel expansion weee........
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#76 - 2014-02-25 15:06:04 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Morwennon wrote:
Will they still have the slightly odd 350 calibration for rigs, or will that be bumped up to 400 as was done for the empire faction ships?


For now the plan is to leave them at the awkward 350. We did have a discussion about this and I don't feel really strongly either way. 400 is nicer for consistency and cleanliness but there also isn't a need for the power boost from the extra 50.


god you guys are awful. stop this ****. or drop the calibration on damage rigs to sensible levels.
Little Blackjack
Money Savers Inc
#77 - 2014-02-25 15:06:31 UTC
NIGHTMARE - NEEDS a buff!

The nightmare is basically a POS. U cant use MWD on it cause u need every drop of cap for the lasers.
If you want to stay inside your suggested speed buff, give a bonus on

MWD/AB cap use, e.g. 200% less cap use

Personally I would definatly prefer a DPS buff as the Nightmware is hardly compareable to many other newer ships anymore.
In my opinion, it needs a drone upgrade to

100 Bandwidth /150 bay

Or you add pure laser buff if you wanna stick with lasers as THE weappon.

But PLEASE, do something to its DPS!
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#78 - 2014-02-25 15:08:01 UTC
I am pretty sure you were making an attempt to out do the interceptor changes in the level of awesome and I gotta say, I think you did it.

I am literally going to spend all my monies on pirate faction frigates now (Already own like 15 DD"s so nbd)

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#79 - 2014-02-25 15:08:05 UTC
Really what they should do is triple the calibration on trimarks and extenders
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#80 - 2014-02-25 15:08:51 UTC
Little Blackjack wrote:
NIGHTMARE - NEEDS a buff!

The nightmare is basically a POS. U cant use MWD on it cause u need every drop of cap for the lasers.
If you want to stay inside your suggested speed buff, give a bonus on

MWD/AB cap use, e.g. 200% less cap use

Personally I would definatly prefer a DPS buff as the Nightmware is hardly compareable to many other newer ships anymore.
In my opinion, it needs a drone upgrade to

100 Bandwidth /150 bay

Or you add pure laser buff if you wanna stick with lasers as THE weappon.

But PLEASE, do something to its DPS!


more turrets, more cap along with an extra high .. since its down a slot on the other ships..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using