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World War II in Europe: Every Day
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Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-02-15 23:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Buck Futz
I'm sure that many of you have seen the brilliant viral Youtube video referenced.

A painstakingly-created MS Paint masterpiece which shows the ever-changing state of battlelines and shifting fortunes of the combatants, one frame for each day - at a rate of about 3 days/second. Meaning the whole video lasts about 7 minutes.

Best of all its set to music and famous radio clips of various events throughout the conflict.

Was particularly impressed by the way the second (french horn) piece was set perfectly to Operation Barbarossa and the German drive to Stalingrad in 1942. Definitely gives you the feeling, "OK, playtime in France is over, its 1941, now **** gets serious."

Oh, and Finland got its own color. Go Finland, you rock! Maybe you'll even get a gold medal in the Winter Olympics this year.

ANYWAY, so I posted in EVE's General Discussion: what does this have to do with EVE? Well, the obvious, of course. Anybody ever tried doing something like this for EVE, showing the ebb and flow of major nullsec power blocks going back to 2005 or so?

Rise and fall of BOB, the destruction of ASCN, Goonswarm ascendant, and the eventual formation of pan-alliance power blocks....?
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#2 - 2014-02-16 00:01:02 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:


Oh, and Finland got its own color. Go Finland, you rock! Maybe you'll even get a gold medal in the Winter Olympics this year.



You do know Finland sided with the Axis from 1941 to 1944?
Kiryen O'Bannon
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2014-02-16 00:13:42 UTC
They did, mainly because the Germans were the only available ally against the Soviets. For the most part, the Finns tried to keep Hitler at arms length, and certainly didn't participate in his genocidal programs.

Britain declared war on Finland, but never took more than token action against them, and the U.S. never declared war on them at all. I don't think Canada did either. While the Russians may not have liked this, they were in no position to complain given A) how they got into Finland in the first place, B) that they needed materiel from the US and badly wanted the second front opened, and C) that they weren't helping against the Japanese until the last weeks of the war, either.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-02-16 00:15:04 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:


Oh, and Finland got its own color. Go Finland, you rock! Maybe you'll even get a gold medal in the Winter Olympics this year.



You do know Finland sided with the Axis from 1941 to 1944?


Of course. I spent a lot of time as an expat in Finland, so have a decent understanding of the position they were in.

Their 'Talvisota' defensive campaign against the Red Army invasion in 1940 is legendary.
Tanks and bombers, 10 to 1 advantage in manpower vs rifles, skis and Molotov cocktails.

Not so much that Finland 'picked' a side in World War II, as the side picked them - Soviet Union saw to that.
Esteban Dragonovic
Saidusairos Nebula Concern
#5 - 2014-02-16 00:21:25 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieT5r1c51aQ

This is about as good as you are going to get. I know some player made maps still exist of the earliest days, but you are not going to be able to get the same level of detail out of those (on a monthly level).
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-02-16 00:57:16 UTC
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieT5r1c51aQ

This is about as good as you are going to get. I know some player made maps still exist of the earliest days, but you are not going to be able to get the same level of detail out of those (on a monthly level).


Thats a pretty slick video, TBH.

As a non-participant in nul-sec politics, it can be hard to follow sometimes.

The time-lapse map is a great way to visualize some of the conflicts that have occurred out there over the years, and seeing 'what eventually happened' to old alliances that don't exist anymore.

Remember reading about ATLAS getting dismantled by Solar, but this allows you to watch the battle played out in seconds.
Watching BOB destroy MC, then implode - then Goons in turn, lose Delve - and get replaced by IT while Goons reorganize.

Fun stuff.

Thanks for that link!
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#7 - 2014-02-16 01:03:55 UTC
That alliance video is pretty crap tbh. Anyone that has a smidgen of interest in null sec life knows that coalitions, NIPS & NAPS are the orfer of the day and have been for a long while.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#8 - 2014-02-16 11:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolai Serkanner
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
They did, mainly because the Germans were the only available ally against the Soviets. For the most part, the Finns tried to keep ****** at arms length, and certainly didn't participate in his genocidal programs.

Britain declared war on Finland, but never took more than token action against them, and the U.S. never declared war on them at all. I don't think Canada did either. While the Russians may not have liked this, they were in no position to complain given A) how they got into Finland in the first place, B) that they needed materiel from the US and badly wanted the second front opened, and C) that they weren't helping against the Japanese until the last weeks of the war, either.


They continued to fight for the Germans until 1944. In which time frame the Holocaust broke lose in all earnest. By supporting the Germans they prolonged the war and with that the suffering, also that of the victims of the Holocaust.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#9 - 2014-02-16 11:54:49 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Buck Futz wrote:


Oh, and Finland got its own color. Go Finland, you rock! Maybe you'll even get a gold medal in the Winter Olympics this year.



You do know Finland sided with the Axis from 1941 to 1944?


Of course. I spent a lot of time as an expat in Finland, so have a decent understanding of the position they were in.

Their 'Talvisota' defensive campaign against the Red Army invasion in 1940 is legendary.
Tanks and bombers, 10 to 1 advantage in manpower vs rifles, skis and Molotov cocktails.

Not so much that Finland 'picked' a side in World War II, as the side picked them - Soviet Union saw to that.


They continued to fight for the Germans after the armistice with the Sowjets. That IS picking the wrong side.
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-02-16 12:54:51 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:


They continued to fight for the Germans after the armistice with the Sowjets. That IS picking the wrong side.


-You realize that the 1940 'Armistice' came with large, unpopular territorial concessions - including the second largest Finnish city at the time, right?

-You also realize that Stalin was aggressively swallowing his smaller neighbors (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland) like it was going out of style, right? Ask the Estonians what they think about the 'Soviet Terror'. While they were not 'thrilled' with German wartime occupation and conscription policies - their attitude towards Russia was, and continues to be far more hostile. Finland was also slated for permanent occupation, had the Finns not decimated the Red invasion force and turned Stalin's Communist puppet-government into an international joke.

Given that, its really no surprise that Finland resumed hostilities the following year, to regain their stolen territory.

And laying the Holocaust at their feet is pretty ignorant. The Finnish government did not participate in German racial policies, and the leadership remained committed to democracy throughout the war. German leadership rarely got favorable concessions from Finland because their military formations were proven highly effective in the field. Very stark contrast to many other nations that fought on the side of Germany.
Ralen Zateki
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#11 - 2014-02-16 13:07:29 UTC
Never saw that... pretty cool... being a history buff and all. Would be cool, especially for noobs like me, to see something like this for EVE. All the abbreviations and alliance names, etc. etc. make a persons head swim at first. Would be cool to have a visual linking all the noise with a map...
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-02-16 17:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Pok Nibin
Heh. Set a blue donut to music? The martial activity in THIS game would have a soundtrack akin to the momentary crash of a stack of falling dishes. Plus, a lot of vacuous bragging, and pitiful sobbing when the noise dies down...I guess that could be merged with the Halleluiah Chorus....

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#13 - 2014-02-17 19:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolai Serkanner
empty. Forum software screwed up my post.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#14 - 2014-02-17 19:44:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolai Serkanner
Buck Futz wrote:


They continued to fight for the Germans after the armistice with the Sowjets. That IS picking the wrong side.


-You realize that the 1940 'Armistice' came with large, unpopular territorial concessions - including the second largest Finnish city at the time, right?

-You also realize that Stalin was aggressively swallowing his smaller neighbors (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland) like it was going out of style, right? Ask the Estonians what they think about the 'Soviet Terror'. While they were not 'thrilled' with German wartime occupation and conscription policies - their attitude towards Russia was, and continues to be far more hostile. Finland was also slated for permanent occupation, had the Finns not decimated the Red invasion force and turned Stalin's Communist puppet-government into an international joke.

Given that, its really no surprise that Finland resumed hostilities the following year, to regain their stolen territory.

And laying the Holocaust at their feet is pretty ignorant. The Finnish government did not participate in German racial policies, and the leadership remained committed to democracy throughout the war. German leadership rarely got favorable concessions from Finland because their military formations were proven highly effective in the field. Very stark contrast to many other nations that fought on the side of Germany.



- Yes, I know that.

- Not "thrilled" with German occupation!!! Nowhere in Europe's occupied countries have the local people so willingly helped the Einsatzgruppen ( A in this case ) to DESTROY the local Jewish population ENTIRELY. German eye-witness reports ( and I have read them ) show us that they didn't even had to motivate the local population to commit these crimes. Theye din't need guns either ... they just beat the to death. The Germans at first had decided to "just" kill the men ... but are inspired by the locals to murder also all the women and children.

Your argument that the people from the Baltics and Finland had a bigger problem with the Sowjets than the Germans holds true till the moment the atrocities start. And even then ... it was widely known how Germany treated political opponents, gay people, gypsies, Jews, mentally ill ... this was not a secret. The people that wanted to know could know it but decided to look the other way ( read some books by Prof Ian Kershaw for a start on these subjects ). Not to mention that Germany had invaded and occupied most of Europe already ...

Finland joined the Germans because the Germans offered help after the Sowjet invasion. Already Finland knew what Germany was up to at the time because Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland had already been conquered. Exchanging one horrible regime for another doesn't make you a hero. It makes you an accomplish, guilty by association. Also of the holocaust, because when the mass killing started in earnest in 1942 Finland continued to help Germany to win their war.

NB: This subject is far to complicated to discuss in a forum about a space game. I will not respond to any follow up posts. If you feel a need to debate the subject, send me a PM.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-02-17 20:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
They did, mainly because the Germans were the only available ally against the Soviets. For the most part, the Finns tried to keep ****** at arms length, and certainly didn't participate in his genocidal programs.

Britain declared war on Finland, but never took more than token action against them, and the U.S. never declared war on them at all. I don't think Canada did either. While the Russians may not have liked this, they were in no position to complain given A) how they got into Finland in the first place, B) that they needed materiel from the US and badly wanted the second front opened, and C) that they weren't helping against the Japanese until the last weeks of the war, either.


They continued to fight for the Germans until 1944. In which time frame the Holocaust broke lose in all earnest. By supporting the Germans they prolonged the war and with that the suffering, also that of the victims of the Holocaust.


Roll oh please, slapping any blame for the Holocaust on the Fins is pretty sick

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Igor Nappi
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-02-17 21:35:49 UTC
Meanwhile in Sweden...

Furthermore, I think that links must be removed from the game.
Keldaur Iehemec
Radiactive bullshit
#17 - 2014-02-17 21:55:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Keldaur Iehemec
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
[quote=Buck Futz][quote=Nicolai Serkanner][quote=Buck Futz]
They continued to fight for the Germans after the armistice with the Sowjets. That IS picking the wrong side.

You are either trolling or highly sensitive on the subject. Either way, Finnish intentions weren't wrong, they wanted to defend their country, and you can't blame them for protecting their land.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2014-02-17 21:58:22 UTC
Igor Nappi wrote:
Meanwhile in Sweden...

Awww yeah. War-profiteering it up like it ain't no thang. Twisted



Also, poor Leningrad. Cry
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#19 - 2014-02-17 22:17:18 UTC

Keldaur Iehemec wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
[quote=Buck Futz][quote=Nicolai Serkanner][quote=Buck Futz]
They continued to fight for the Germans after the armistice with the Sowjets. That IS picking the wrong side.

You are either trolling or highly sensitive on the subject. Either way, Finnish intentions weren't wrong, they wanted to defend their country, and you can't blame them for protecting their land.




Remember kids, the Waffen-SS just wanted to protect their rightful land, which happened to include a few million square kilometers of your land. Oh and to exterminate the "vermin" which took it over...
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#20 - 2014-02-17 23:21:06 UTC
Another lesson is you can wardec French corps and they will immediately give up.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
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