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Sugar Kyle for CSM9

First post First post
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#81 - 2014-02-15 07:33:45 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Manufacturing and mining is heavily high sec focused because of safety and transportation. Low sec will never give that level of safety that mining in high sec will. Nor would I want to bring that safety to low. Players will give up a lot for safety and too sweet a lure will be swiftly abused.

I am not fond of the ore anoms changes. That took away an option for those who wished to mine in low sec. I'd like to know why we cannot have those back outside of high sec. Attached in there is my earlier thoughts on more and slightly wider spread gas sites.

When we say industry does that mean just moving it out of high sec or does that mean convincing people to move it into low sec and live in low sec? They will follow the profit but it will be done carefully and it will be measured against the risk and the potential loss.

Definitely expanding viable industry into lowsec, nullsec, outposts and starbases. This means ensuring that highsec station manufacture and highsec mining always remain viable and accessible options for those unwilling to challenge themselves by moving operations elsewhere.

I'd like a game where if someone chooses to manufacture, they can look beyond highsec stations and say to themselves 'if I manage the risks and play right, I can make more profit manufacturing in lowsec, nullsec or in a starbase'. Or if a corp wants to have an indy wing or wants to be self-sufficient, they're not tethered to highsec as they are now. Because highsec stations are the best choice, there's no mechanical gameplay driver that encourages players to try pursuing these activities elsewhere. Instead, currently, the game encourages players never to leave highsec stations.

In the end, I believe that if people saw reason to do more activities in lowsec and starbases, there'll be more drivers for emergent gameplay. Those who want to be safe in highsec can stay there and be happy. Those who want to be part of the risk/reward game can construct and fight and ally and bicker and attack and defend and ransom and and and and and. I want to see industry integrated into the real game and become a more interesting part of EVE!

and yeah the ore anom change doesn't make sense to me :/ especially with the interceptor warp speed and bubble immunity changes this kinda kills mining viability outside highsec, doesn't it?
Zloco Crendraven
Shadow Cartel
#82 - 2014-02-15 09:50:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
Hiljah wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:

Force projection is another very important thing that should be addressed. The actual mechanics don't allow any smaller group to evolve in lowsec. Smaller groups can't attack POCOs or take moons or even make a small roam in their damn space. Force projection allows stronger groups to be everywhere anytime and like that it suffocates smaller entities that could evolve in something more meaningful in lowsec.

I have been meaning to ask Sugar what she thinks of one idea about force projection.

I don't think running a market needs to be any more difficult or frustrating, but what do you think about a regenerative light year pool Sugar?

I red your linked article and i like it so much. I also explained a solution about force projection to put a cooldown when you jump. The more AU jump the bigger the cd is. The max CD should allow a player to jump one time and get back in one gaming session. Let say a normal EVE player gaming session is 4 hours, so the CD should be 2 hours.

But i think your idea is way better. It adds a more tactical aspect to the force projection. Sugar you should defo look at it.

These things need to stop, PL has no business to be there.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2014-02-15 11:03:15 UTC
To quote a friend from R1DER: never bothered voting before, but will do so now. You have my vote.

Solo and small gang PvP in nullsec, lowsec and w-space:
Goryn Clade
#84 - 2014-02-15 12:30:44 UTC  |  Edited by: FistyMcBumBardier
W0wbagger wrote:
Altaen wrote:

As I understand it, the purpose of the CSM is to provide a link between CCP and the players. The ideal CSM candidate could be counted on to accurately and sometimes passionately represent the concerns of the players.

A candidate that doesnt know many people, and doesnt have experience of the majority of the lowsec playstyles, cannot do this effectively.

Realistically we'll probably only manage to vote in one candidate - for that candidate to succeed in the way you are describing - they need to know a lot of players. (and thus be known by a lot of players). A player that gets very few kills in lowsec, and doesnt really leave molden, may have trouble relating to your fw button orbiter, or your BNI horde member, or your snuff cap pilot or your RIFTA soloer. There are more people in barleguet, huola and tama than there probably are logged in in all of Molden and a number of people here are simply stating that Molden does not = a representative view of lowsec - an area of eve that is arguably at least as balkanised as nullsec.

FW is a major part of lowsec, in numbers, pvp volume and system area, and I feel that if we are going to have a unified lowsec candidate (which may of course not be the aim here) then we need someone who has a lot of experience in that area - so they can relate to the players as well as ccp as you said.

In all fairness to sugar, she would probably get my second vote, after this imaginary FW-experienced person, furthermore, all of this said - this thread is a discussion and I'm sure if Sugar can address the points raised - some minds will be changed.

TLDR - lowsec might only get one chance at a CSM candidate and i really believe we should rally behind that one person- IMO that person needs a lot of lowsec experience, from small to large gang, fw button orbiting to cap blobs. It's certainly not me (no experience of fw mechanics at all for instance) but they certainly exist. Back to sugar to respond.

EDIT : Pretty much agree with Kaedas post - i'm just after someone who has exposure to as many of the playstyles listed as possible really - something for sugar to address perhaps

Sugar knows a surprising amount of people, and is quite active on her blog and the twitters.

She might not be the most active pvp'er in our corp since her playstyle embraces the industrial side of things, but she excels at that. As far as I know, she has not done the FW button orbiting, BNI horde, been a snuff cap pilot, or done R1FTA style solo. But she has friends and corp mates that have done it all, and we have no problem lending our opinions or regaling her with our own experiences. This gives her the ability to relate to the majority of Low Sec lifestyles. Just from this thread you can see the wide range of people that support her; I have done a lot of FW and still have an alt in Fweddit, Wex Manchester is an old corp mate and is now in Snuff, Kaeda was in R1FTA and we occasionally do roams with them.

I do agree that we need to band together and get a CSM candidate elected, and Sugar is the best candidate that has stepped forward. She will get my first vote not because she is a corp mate or a friend, but because I believe she will do us great justice.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#85 - 2014-02-15 13:13:36 UTC
I wonder if Lhorenzho knows about this thread :)

Invalid signature format

Cordelia Mulholland IV
Posh Space Tarts
#86 - 2014-02-15 13:31:51 UTC
IMHO the biggest requirement of a CSM member is commitment to the game & players and the ability to communicate well with the players & CCP. Sugar Kyle has already demonstrated her exceptional talents in these areas and is going to make an exceptional CSM member. You'd be crazy not to vote for her.
Abavus Durden
Pukin' Dogs
#87 - 2014-02-15 13:53:05 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:

I don't even live in low sec. Why would I care? Because every CSM counts, and the above is pretty much a snapshot of the sort of person I want on CSM. She has the initiative; she runs a frequently updated blog and a chat channel. She is open to information, to other play styles, to other experiences, to other opinions, but she has a good analytical mind and she's demonstrated a strong work ethic. Most importantly, she stepped up.

Well said.

I'm another non-lowsec type that will be voting for Sugar. Stumbled upon her blog awhile back, and was quietly hoping she'd run. She's articulate and thoughtful, and not afraid to share a random thought in public. We players need that type on our CSM.

The fact that she's pro-lowsec is just a bonus.

The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#88 - 2014-02-15 16:32:40 UTC  |  Edited by: DARKSTAR POWNYOUALL



Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#89 - 2014-02-15 16:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Doomchinchilla
Noone is saying that we speak for the entire LS community. We speak for a part of the LS community... I would think given our size. I have no idea what you're talking about or what you hope to accomplish. But carry on, I'm sure your campaigning will make an excellent case for her and your support will do nothing but drive people away....

And we're not upset that someone is doing something bigger than us. We're expressing our concern for what could be a person that would be speaking out and shaping the area of space that we live in. We're expressing our concern that she might live in LS but she's not experienced at all in our way of life or the problems/trials of force projection that we go with. Molden Heath is a small pond to the LS group and that's what we're expressing. It's not a major area of LS of where action happens and that's not a surprise to anyone.

It would be in our best interest to figure out if Sugar is actually a decent candidate and we apologize for not taking your word, or her corp mates words. We'd like to figure out for ourselves if Sugar actually has what it takes to represent LS. Just because we're pointing stuff out about her doesn't mean that we have to have a better candidate in mind, it just means that we want the right one... since that person speaks for our very way of life in EVE.
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#90 - 2014-02-15 16:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: DARKSTAR POWNYOUALL


Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#91 - 2014-02-15 16:58:05 UTC



I'm not an alt. And noone that was an alt has posted here as Shadow Cartel. If you see other people posting, it's because they're mocking the fact that I was accused of being an alt. I may be an ******* in game, but as many can attest, I'm not an alt. In fact I'm a CEO... so that would make being an alt pretty awkward. Don't you think so?
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#92 - 2014-02-15 17:21:19 UTC
Anime Masters
#93 - 2014-02-15 20:41:53 UTC
you have my axe and my vote
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#94 - 2014-02-15 23:46:20 UTC
Doomchinchilla wrote:

I raise a concern that she seems very limited to small gang pvp, and not well known around this area of LS.

Considering the other posts and the comments about being well known I feel that this is a matter of stylistic representation.

Chatting with others over some of the questions brought forward one person said that people want to make sure that they are not dismissed. Looking at it from that perspective the ‘type’ of PvP done could be a concern if I was obsessed with it and considered my path the proper one. From there, one might worry that I would agree with nerfs to larger gangs who focused on different types of PvP because it was not something that would bother ‘me’.

PvP is PvP. One thing I cannot do is speak out against another’s PvP style because it is not mine. Nor can I agree on nerfing a type of PvP because it is not mine. Such as gatecamps. A gatecamping lifestyle is not one that I happen to understand, personally. I do not feel a draw to spend my time doing this. However, I don’t dismiss people who gatecamp. I have dropped into the threads that spawn regularly where people suggest that the way to bring people into low sec is to nerf gatecamps so that they can travel with Orcas full of goodies, safely and the lazy PvPers are forced to work to kill them to state my opinion on why they are wrong and to defend those that wish to spend their lives camping.

If camping was brought onto the table then the next step is to find a medium. I’d say happy medium but often such things are not happy. But “I don’t do that so I do not care” is not how I approach a situation.

I use this as an example to explain that not doing something, especially a style of something that I do is not a reason to invalidate it. While it may become repetitive, I will continue to explain that representation does not mean only the things Sugar does matter in Eve. Just because I do not do something or I am not personally effected by subject does not make it irrelevant, not exist, or be ignored.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#95 - 2014-02-16 00:12:37 UTC
Rev Fernie wrote:
The FW and retention of players in Low Sec issue.

Could be resolved by introducing Pirate Factions to the Process. Players who are members of pirate factions could hijack and steal LP (i.e. Ransom) from racial Faction pilots that cloak or warp off stabbed. In effect causing them to stay and fight for their LP. Current FW players will need to step things up in order to maintain their existing non risk farming levels of income.

This could encourage the pirate career to progress and increase new player involvement in low sec PVP.

tldr Introduce the pirate factions to faction warfare so they can extort and interfere with the wars. Boost the pirate career. Pirate

I love the idea of introducing the pirate factions into low sec in a more intricate, integrated manner. When it comes to advertising, piracy catches peoples attention. Many new players want to “pirate” and make their living in the space lanes. It is a font of ideas and possibilities.

When crossing into Faction Warfare one always has to make sure not to devalue the efforts of the Faction Warfare pilots. They put a lot of time and energy into their systems, their control, defending and attacking. For a neutral third party to come and hijack their LP and trot off would cut into them deeply. The neutral third party benefits from the LP, does not have to deal with the mechanics of FW (the war, the station, the control, the standings).

Also, how does this fix the cloaky stabbed frigates farming the plexs? They would become cloaky stabbed neutral pirate frigates.

The general “FW farming problem” that has so clearly come to the surface needs to be addressed. And when taken to the CSM table, by myself or whomever goes forward with the player vote, it needs to come along with ideas, possibilities, and solutions.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#96 - 2014-02-16 01:57:16 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:

The lowsec group can make monthly meetings on skype, TS whatever and gather all kind of experts of all areas to propose some changes. One month it could be FW, another industry, small scale PvP, caps PVP, missions exploration.

On the way to election and after, I want to meet with people. If people want to talk I will listen. If they want to write, I will read. Listening is a fantastic thing. Listening to someone tell their problems unearths a lot of interlinked problems. Sometimes what is bothering someone and the actual core problem are not immediately apparent. A wide range of people will create a pool of knowledge that will paint a much larger picture.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:

1- Regions out of FW in lowsec should be distinctive by resources btw each other. Some should have great asteroids, some should be best missions hubs, some higher gas sites spawn rate, some should have really good stations (industry, lesser clone cost, science, cheaper repair costs) etc. All kind of differentiation are possible.
2- FW plexes should not be doable with non fitted or half fitted ships. No more cloaked, stabbed orbiting. Lv 3 and 4 FW missions should not be doable in bombers.
3- Lv 5 missions should have better rewards
4- All lowgrade sets should be obtainable only trough missions in lowsec or lowsec exploration.
5- Jump freighters should not jump trough cyno in and out of lowsec.
6- Better rewards for lowsec incursions
7- Minus security status to meter. Preferabley with some distinctive mechanics which should interact with FW.

1-I think that this is very interesting. The separation and specific definition of the areas would hopefully cause different types of people to settle in different areas. It creates texture and depth. However, what about the predator? For the predator (the current bulk of the non fw-low sec population), they are looking for the prey. They’d follow and consume. Are we trying to create areas where the prey will thrive enough to fight back and defend? And if so how do we stop the resources from being too great that it does not just create a farming situation and recreate current woes?

2- What is a fitted ship? Let us say that every slot had to be full. If they filled them with trash modules to fit the restriction, would that be better?

And missions need to be rebalanced everywhere. Accepting blitzable missions is prevalent in every single area of space. There are level 5 missions that need a few shots from a battleship and complete.

3-PvE needs attention and rebalancing, agreed.

4-I’m very happy to snatch and add resources like this to low sec. If it has to be in the current mechanics, exploration is a good choice. If it can be in the mechanics of my dreams, the pirate expansion would be coming soon because it would be awesome.

5-This speaks close to my heart. I run a trade hub in low sec. My jump freighter is my backbone. I jump a lot. Enough to have trained JF Conservation V, Jump Freighters V and Racial Freighter V. Now, before I had it I could move a freighter with the support of my corporation. I like that and write extensively on the antics that we got up to with me in freighters and Orcas jumping into low sec. My jump freighter has created opportunities for me to expand my market, one that is used by more than my personal corporation.

But, my hub is on an edge system. Industry is bulky and inconvenient. If we removed jump freighters we would remove many industrial opportunities in deeper low sec. Jump freighters are a two way street. They stop things like convoys of freighters but they also bring assets into regions of space that might otherwise not have a population.

Now, you’re above idea of ‘textured’ or ‘flavored’ regions might be strong enough to help support this but it would be a huge change and can easily be the type of nerf that kills more than it heals.

6-I’m down for this.

7- I am not fully sure what you envision here. We’ll have to chat about this more :)

Zloco Crendraven wrote:

Force projection is another very important thing that should be addressed. The actual mechanics don't allow any smaller group to evolve in lowsec. Smaller groups can't attack POCOs or take moons or even make a small roam in their damn space. Force projection allows stronger groups to be everywhere anytime and like that it suffocates smaller entities that could evolve in something more meaningful in lowsec.

Force projection is delicate. Too much in either direction kills huge chunks of gameplay. This is where I would seek solutions and especially solutions from those who use it. It is easy, when one is the one dropped to just want to get rid of it. But how would those that use this mechanic the most handle the situation? Those are the people I will need to hunt down for advice and opinions.

Zloco Crendraven wrote:

POSs and passive income should b revisited.

What do we want from them? What are your ideas? Passive income such as moon goo?

One of my list of topics that I brought up at Fanfest was the fact that than Moons were mostly controlled by null sec groups. My feeling was that moons located in low sec, were not there to be used by the people that lived in low sec. With timers and the ability to travel accross the game they were dominated by the large, organized groups in the game which meant that they were a null sec resource that was inconveniently located. It is the type of thing siphons were introduced for, but they were introduced after the nerf.

POS in general are a soul deep pain. I have been refueling them as I worked on this response. I believe that deployables are the first step to redoing POS and the current POS structure will be trashed. I can be wrong. It’s my guess.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#97 - 2014-02-16 01:58:04 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:

Most of all, Lowsec needs to get its identity. It needs to stop to be percieved as a transition btw highsec and nullsec. In my opinion lowsec needs to be solo and small-medium scale heaven. It needs to be an ideal environment for smaller, weaker groups to get their footholds and evolve. Carebears especially industry one (those that don't want to bother with sov) should have their eyes sparkling and their body thrembling only of the mention of lowsec. It should be a neverending circle btw militia, outlaws and smaller entities in search of a better tomorrow.

I agree that at the foot of the problem is low sec no longer being defined as the place between high and null or ‘medium’ space.

Trying to define and mold it into solo and small-medium scale heaven is not something that can be done directly. What would stop a larger group from gaining interest? And before that, why are we stopping a larger group from gaining interest? If I were to use Tuskers as Solo, 7-2 as small, Balex as medium, and Shadow Cartel as large (picking groups in this thread) why is SC any less valid in their existence inside of low sec? Why do they need to be kicked to some other space because they run a larger fleet? They put the time, effort, and energy into being who and what they are and they enjoy low secs environment. They cannot be pushed out for being a large group anymore than the Tuskers should be kicked to high sec to dual in trade hubs if they want solo PvP.

The residents of low sec are their own worst enemy when it comes to smaller, weaker groups getting a foothold and evolving. We consume what is here or we are consumed. Some smaller groups survive. Many do not. Some larger groups do not survive. How do we fix what is the core of what we are? Is it something that needs to be fixed?

And the simplest fix for industry would be for the current, thriving, population to incorporate them. To create a balance inside where groups take in industrialists and are fed (ships/stuff) by them and it creates a beautiful life cycle. However, that isn’t how most low sec groups and especially low sec groups that identify as PvP corporations play Eve. Some do have logistics sides and they keep them tucked in high sec, often without the same corporation ticker and away from the kill board.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Varius Xeral
#98 - 2014-02-16 02:51:36 UTC
I am flabbergasted. That was the best CSM pitch I have ever read, and the fact that you intend to speak knowledgeably for the most ignored area of gameplay just compounds my astonishment. You have my vote, and I will push to have you added to people's recommended voting lists.

Again, amazing contribution. Thank you.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Ezek Price
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#99 - 2014-02-16 03:40:58 UTC
Trolling aside and ignoring cap cruise control=cool over there, Sugar Kyle has answered all the posts in this thread with verbose and eloquent replies. I'm impressed but the experience gap is a problem that even consulting good knowledgeable people cannot necessarily fix. Then again, CSM has always been about personalities and their ability to lobby and present -- not necessarily advocate things that would improve their own playstyle.

War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left.

My blog, Civire Commander:

Harrigan VonStudly
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#100 - 2014-02-16 03:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Harrigan VonStudly
If Sugar ends up being the only, or the best of others' throwing their hat into the CSM ring to represent low sec, so what if she isn't "experienced" in all aspects of low sec? What's the point SC dudes?

Part of being on the CSM is to take the concerns, ideas, etc... of the player base that they represent and present it to CCP and hash ideas. Instead of smacking her down because you think you're some kind of hero God-like end all to be all low sec heroes, stand up and commit to the CSM yourself. OR be excellent communicators to her, should she win a seat, and help her understand the things she doesn't know and enable and empower her to empower you. No one knows everything. And the fact that some of you act like she should, or that you do, is pure laughable.

I think Sugar's platform is well written. I for one will have her at the top of my list. Even Hans had mega votes by his FW enemies because they believed and trusted he would represent them. Just because someone isn't l33t Cartel-ish in your eyes doesn't mean she won't do her damnedest to represent you.