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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Afterburners/MWD vs Missiles?

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MrsClean
Maden Corpse
#1 - 2014-02-10 22:08:10 UTC  |  Edited by: MrsClean
Hi,

I tried to find a solution by myself with the EFT tool. But to point the thread in the right direction I might ask first:

-Are afterburners good vs missiles or is their mass addition addition making it worse?

So from my experience I have to post what I know, too:
Afterburners increase velocity - more velocity reduces missile damage
Afterburners increase mass (and thusly signature radius?) - more signature radius increases the damage of missiles.


-Regarding EFT: I tried a DPS check with a Missile boat vs a ship with afterburner , and then I removed that afterburner. However it didn't make a difference?
For both DPS checks I started the program new. So it clearly all has been set as I wanted, as far as I know - obvously I must have done smth wrong, or is the damage really the same...

-Same questions could go for MWD.
I know of course:
MWDs do the same as ABs but broadly said more extreme.

Thanks in advance.
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-02-10 22:11:27 UTC
Afterburners don't increase sig Micro Warp Drives do

afterburner would "potentially" lower missile damage based on explosion velocity vs velocity of the ship you're shooting at.

To put it simply, it's complicated.

Do a search on eve university and you'll find a much more detailed explanation.
MrsClean
Maden Corpse
#3 - 2014-02-10 22:13:49 UTC  |  Edited by: MrsClean
Leoric Firesword wrote:
Afterburners don't increase sig Micro Warp Drives do


Thanks, so someone trolled me again in the help channel... when i asked about ABs

I am astounded afterburners are only potentially good vs missiles when they have no Signature boost. I guess I have to read through the link then I guess. Thanks for tip with Evewiki.
Edit: Hm so the rockets I i tested have 150 m/s velocity and the vexor i used for testing flies much faster up 300 up to 600m/s...
Still no dps difference?

So the reminder of questions remains, to sum them up:
Mwd vs missiles
EFT dps calculation regarding AB/MWD/missiles
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#4 - 2014-02-10 23:14:08 UTC
There's three main factors that apply here.

First: Can the missile catch you? (Only really applies to Interceptors and some silly super-fast fits like 10MN bumping Coercers or 100MN Stabbers). An Interceptor with an MWD isn't getting hit by missiles at all if it is burning away from the missile source.
This will not usually apply in fights at all.

Secondly: How does your speed compare to the explosion velocity? If you are going much faster than the EV, you will take less damage and a MWD may well be helpful.

Thirdly: How does your sig radius compare to the missile explosion radius? If your sigrad is smaller your small size is causing you to avoid damage, and using an MWD certainly will not help you here at all. (MWDs multiply your sigrad by a factor of about 6 in most cases; ABs have no effect on sigrad).

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-02-10 23:19:19 UTC
AB adds mass not signature radius.


The added mass makes you less agile but it does reduce missile damage slightly due to speed increase.

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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#6 - 2014-02-10 23:21:24 UTC
Missile damage application depends on two things:

  1. The missile's explosion radius vs the target's signature radius. The smaller the target is compared to the missile's explosion, the less damage it takes.
  2. The missile's explosion velocity vs the target's ship velocity. If the target is faster than the missile's explosion, it takes reduced damage.


Mass has nothing to do with it.

Now, the effects of ABs and MWDs are as such:


  • ABs increase your ship velocity ~2x, and increase your effective mass (so you turn more slowly). The increase in speed will reduce incoming missile damage in most cases.
  • MWDs increase your ship velocity ~5x, increase your signature radius ~5x, and increase your mass. Having a MWD on but not moving at your max speed will in all cases increase incoming damage (since your signature radius is larger). Moving at your max speed with a MWD may decrease damage, depending on the missile's attributes.


There are some exceptions, though. Interceptors, interdictors, assault frigates, and heavy assault cruisers (plus a couple other ships) all receive a reduction to the 5x increase in their signature radius due to using a MWD. Because they can get the huge velocity with less of a penalty to their signature radius, these ships are particularly well-suited to eating a lot of damage while going very fast using a MWD -- from missiles and otherwise.

I can't really help with the equations for calculating damage as I'm not sure of their source or how/why they work, but a formula commonly used to explain their behavior can be found here.

Good luck!

ISD LackOfFaith

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2014-02-10 23:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
The missile damage formula isn't simple:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage

There are two terms: signature, and velocity. The velocity term also considers signature.

An AB really doesn't increase velocity very much, so damage mostly depends on signature vs. explosion radius. Here velocity really only comes into play vs. same-sized missiles.

A MWD has a huge velocity increase and a huge signature increase, which balance each other in the velocity term, and the signature term is also large. This target will take quite a lot of damage from just about any missile.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-02-11 00:25:32 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
There's three main factors that apply here.

First: Can the missile catch you? (Only really applies to Interceptors and some silly super-fast fits like 10MN bumping Coercers or 100MN Stabbers). An Interceptor with an MWD isn't getting hit by missiles at all if it is burning away from the missile source.
This will not usually apply in fights at all.

Secondly: How does your speed compare to the explosion velocity? If you are going much faster than the EV, you will take less damage and a MWD may well be helpful.

Thirdly: How does your sig radius compare to the missile explosion radius? If your sigrad is smaller your small size is causing you to avoid damage, and using an MWD certainly will not help you here at all. (MWDs multiply your sigrad by a factor of about 6 in most cases; ABs have no effect on sigrad).

*notes down this post for future linking. well written and easily understandable*

OP, I think you had some confusion about mass addition versus sig radius. Afterburners add mass, but not sig radius. Mass is used to determine agility, not damage taken. Sig radius is how easy you are to hit, target lock, and how much damage you take form missiles.

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-02-11 00:47:57 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
There's three main factors that apply here.

First: Can the missile catch you? (Only really applies to Interceptors and some silly super-fast fits like 10MN bumping Coercers or 100MN Stabbers). An Interceptor with an MWD isn't getting hit by missiles at all if it is burning away from the missile source.
This will not usually apply in fights at all.

Secondly: How does your speed compare to the explosion velocity? If you are going much faster than the EV, you will take less damage and a MWD may well be helpful.

Thirdly: How does your sig radius compare to the missile explosion radius? If your sigrad is smaller your small size is causing you to avoid damage, and using an MWD certainly will not help you here at all. (MWDs multiply your sigrad by a factor of about 6 in most cases; ABs have no effect on sigrad).

*notes down this post for future linking. well written and easily understandable*

OP, I think you had some confusion about mass addition versus sig radius. Afterburners add mass, but not sig radius. Mass is used to determine agility, not damage taken. Sig radius is how easy you are to hit, target lock, and how much damage you take form missiles.


As said.

Mass only comes into account in 3 things that I can think about:

1. Agility
2. Wormhole collapsing.
3. Titan bridge / jump bridge fuel calculation.

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