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New mining mechanics proposal
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Klaant Shavkens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-02-03 14:31:51 UTC
Hi.

I'm not sure if a similar proposal has been done, or if there is a better system being studied by devs just now. This is a new mining mechanics idea to reduce AFK mining and the boredom to wait for mining cycles:

1- Reduce mining amount of all lasers/drones (don't panic, keep reading). You can use them like now, but with less efficiency. You must activate your lasers on an asteroid as you usually do.

2- Introduce a minigame similar to exploration sites, that represent a mining plan. This plan controls the mining operation of your laser/drones. You can start this minigame in a new module, the Mining Director, like you do with a hacking module (or add this funcionality to a mining upgrade module).

3- Playing the mini-game, you can find (for example):
a) normal pocket (node that adds a small amout of mineral)
b) gas pocket (you must "overcome" its complexity (coherence) with your laser strength, like a firewall in a data site) to unlock new nodes.
c) high radiaton node (you must fight this one quickly: reduces your mining strenght until defeated!)
d) ionized pocket (another dangerous node: this one adds heat to your lasers/attack your drones, and can break them! destroy this node or stop mining to cooldown your lasers/drone shield!)
e) high quality node (the one you are looking for: big increment to the mining rate of your lasers/drones). if you defeat this node, the mining plan is complete and your lasers are mining at 100% (or 150% to make miners happy)
d) add more colorful nodes like: rare ore pocket in a basic asteroid, explosive gas pockets, etc... and tools like: mine blueprints, beam stabilizers, etc (tools to help in the mining plan).

4- If you cannot defeat a node there is a chance of explosion/ionic backslah and your lasers stop working, so you must activate them again, working at low efficiency until the end of the cycle.

5- The mining computer has a medium/long cycle time. You cannot start a new plan until the actual cycle is over. If you quickly define a mining plan, reaching the high quality node, you will be mining at high efficiency for a long cycle duration. If you fail, you'll be mining at poor eficiency until you can start a new plan, at the end of a medium cycle.

6- Your mining tech (lasers/drones) gives your "mining strenght" to fight against harmful nodes. Your skills (mining, metalurgy...) gives you coherence (knowledge to gain time to overcome dificulties).

7- Each asteroid type has a diferent "dificulty" level. The combined dificulty level of all asteroids with laser/drones on it determines the minigame dificulty level. If you start mining on a new asteroid while an active mining plan is on, the new target works on "low" eficiency until a new plan (minigame) is completed.

The objective is the miner must run the minigame few times each hour to increase incoming, but must have enough time between cycles to do what is now doing: chat with corp mates, check skill list, watch local or d-scan....

Goodbye mining bots.

What do you think?

- Klaant
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-02-03 15:01:19 UTC
So, short on time, may jump around a bit.

First off, no one with any sense LIKES the Odyssey minigame, its painful, and involves 80 times more clicks than previously to MAYBE complete a sight that MAY give you loot half as valuable per unit as it used to be. and besides that, the minigame is as painful to play as typing a captcha with bad eyesight.

Second, Why nerf mining? its already a thankless enough profession with little enough income ompared to doing almost anything else anywhere.

Third, mining's whole point is semi-AFK gameplay, its there for people who either dont want to actively PvP, or find themselves one day in need of ISK but unable to devote full attention to EVE (bad work day, taxes, movie you havent seen in years on TV).

Fourth, with how long and how OFTEN people have to mine, and assuming the 50% dropout rate of miners that exploration had, do you REALLY think this will help make mining "fun"? it will become needless tedium, throwing mining even further into the "only worth doing by bots" category.

would elaborate and add more points, but have 7 inches of snow to shovel through so i can leave for work.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3 - 2014-02-03 15:09:59 UTC
Cut all resources and resource requirements by 90%. Mining is now 10x more profitable and 10x more exciting.

Oh god.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-02-03 15:27:54 UTC
no

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC
Klaant Shavkens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-02-03 15:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Klaant Shavkens
Well, you are right. I don't like the minigame as it is implemented, but I see potential there. In its actual form you have very few options to choose. Relic and Data sites looks all the same. I hate the can spray when you defeat the core... But I like the idea to do some action to find valuable items inside the wrecks (scan sites is too easy). I'll prefer a system where you have progressive rewards while hacking a system, with more options to choose. And end with more or less rewards, without chasing cans.

I don't want to nerf mining. I'd like to buff it. If you are afk, not playing attention because mining it's not your primary job, you can do it. But a dedicated miner, somebody who is in front of the screen playing, must earn more than an AFK one. Then, you play the minigame to improve the mining rate or you can add nodes to gain rare ores in standard asteroids. It's about to give rewards to active miners. Only nerfed the AFK mining to improve the on-line mining, but you can play with the numbers to balance AFK/on-line rewards. If you like you can nerf actual (afk) mining to 99% and improve on-line mining (minigame) to 105%. And may be is better not to do it an all or nothing thing. You play a minigame, the more nodes you can "open", more mining rate you can obtain from your equipment. You go to the belt, scan for asteroid targets, active the lasers, active the module to play the minigame amb improve your mining rate, do what do you want till next cycle. If you go to see a movie, you mine at lower rate.

If miners can win more playing a minigame, I think a lot of miners will play it.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-02-03 18:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nariya Kentaya
Klaant Shavkens wrote:
Well, you are right. I don't like the minigame as it is implemented, but I see potential there. In its actual form you have very few options to choose. Relic and Data sites looks all the same. I hate the can spray when you defeat the core... But I like the idea to do some action to find valuable items inside the wrecks (scan sites is too easy). I'll prefer a system where you have progressive rewards while hacking a system, with more options to choose. And end with more or less rewards, without chasing cans.

I don't want to nerf mining. I'd like to buff it. If you are afk, not playing attention because mining it's not your primary job, you can do it. But a dedicated miner, somebody who is in front of the screen playing, must earn more than an AFK one. Then, you play the minigame to improve the mining rate or you can add nodes to gain rare ores in standard asteroids. It's about to give rewards to active miners. Only nerfed the AFK mining to improve the on-line mining, but you can play with the numbers to balance AFK/on-line rewards. If you like you can nerf actual (afk) mining to 99% and improve on-line mining (minigame) to 105%. And may be is better not to do it an all or nothing thing. You play a minigame, the more nodes you can "open", more mining rate you can obtain from your equipment. You go to the belt, scan for asteroid targets, active the lasers, active the module to play the minigame amb improve your mining rate, do what do you want till next cycle. If you go to see a movie, you mine at lower rate.

If miners can win more playing a minigame, I think a lot of miners will play it.

an active miner ALREADY earns more, they dont lose the precious seconds involved with not mining for 10-30 seconds between checks when your hold is full or asteroids arent mined.

and besides that, you have to realize, mining at the level required to make industry possible requires literally hours a day for hundreds of people across high-secd, the fact that you can do this semi-efficiently while AFK or doing something on another screen is what makes it possible.


even with "progressive rewards" could you imagine siting doing any form of that horrid minigame for hours on end, for days or weeks at a time?

besides that, the minigame is huge on the screen, this would KILL mining anywhere BUT highsec, as you have to constantly watch local/dscan/intel to avoid getting killed, which a minigame distracts from, not to mention it would slow/hamper the one thing even active OR afk miners do, and thats CHAT. mining is first and foremost a SOCIAL activity, meant for people to sit around and talk about **** like life, work, the kids, those college triplets they totally had a foursome with the night before. and you cant chat while clicking **** in a minigame as fast as you can to "be efficient".

in short, just about any form of "active mining" is a direct nerf to the one thing that makes mining tolerable to do, and thats minimal interaction for moderate rewards in a lengthy, tedious, soul-crushingly dull profession.


as for scan-sites, i preferred the old days when there was no minigame, let you sneak into hostile systems in low/null and take the cans out form under them, nowadays you have to be decloaked too long between the minigame and actually trying toc atch the cans, that anyone in system has more than enough time to drop probes, find you, and either A) kill you in a fire because your not in a REAL combat ship, or B) kill you in a fire with their buddies because your in a T3 thats actually worth killing, or C) force you to cancel the minigame or grabbing cans, cloak up, and have the entire endeavor become wasted time



as for actual numbers, the difference is either so insignificant everyone mines AFK anyways, or its significant enough that if you dotn do it, would be making so little you may as well stay docked, so arguing number balance is meaningless.