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New T2 BS
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Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-01-26 02:45:32 UTC
So with all alot of the changes that have come ive considered a new T2 BS. The general idea would be a battleship with less HP but more mobility. General traits would be along these lines

~25% less Shield Armor and HP
decreased Mass
Increased agility
Increased warp speed

All of these ships would use turrets, partly because i am a fan of caldari gun boats. Turret bonuses and turret hardpoints would be balanced to keep their DPS and bonus inline with T1 battleships, maybe slightly better.

I'd love to hear everyones thoughts, keep in mind this is a generalization for the idea.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2014-01-26 02:51:32 UTC
Soooooo.... attack (tier 3) battlecruisers?

How did you Veterans start?
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-01-26 02:57:15 UTC
Sort of but i was thinking more along the idea of trading some EHP for more speed, however with it being a T2 ship it would have slightly higher resists then T1 bs. You would be able to get in range of enemies with blasters or gain more distance to snipe them more quickly. More DPS than a Tier 3 and EHP. Was also thinking it would have much better scan res as well then a BS.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2014-01-26 04:52:35 UTC
Soooo... a nano-Vindicator?



Sorry OP... but a tankier version of a Tier 3 BC that can pump out more damage (hello 1200 dps Talos! Hello 1000 dps Oracle!) while being more expensive (all Tech 2 battleships cost about 1 billion ISK) already exists. It is called the nano-Vindicator.

And if it is faster than a regular MWD battlecruiser (>1000 m/sec) then it will instantly become overpowered as nothing that deals that much damage, with that much tank, should ever be able to kite like that (remember why Tracking Enhancers were nerfed? The Talos remembers. It was one of the big reasons for it).

How did you Veterans start?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#5 - 2014-01-26 05:28:53 UTC
I'd like to see T2 Assault BSes based on AF and HAC.

I feel the lighter, faster battleships you mention in your OP are what combat BCs should be.

Oh god.
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-01-26 05:34:22 UTC
I can see both of your points and agree. The reason i didnt suggest Assault BS like hacs and AF is because the marauder kinda fills that role a little bit.
Count Szadek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-01-27 07:36:37 UTC
I Think you are actually looking for just a T2 Tier 3 Battlecruiser honestly (Which I would love to see FYI...wink wink)
Be advised these are only 2 sec bonuses so bear with:

Heavy Assault Battecruiser (HABs)

T2 Talos: Drone and Blaster
5% large Hybrid Damage and Tracking
+5 drone bandwidth per level [50 Drone Bay | 25 Default Bandwidth]

T2 Naga: RHM Boat
10% Heavy Missile Damage
20% Heavy Missile Load Size

T2 Tornado:
5% Large Projectile Damage and Falloff
5% Scan Resolution Bonus

T2 Oracle:
5% Large Energy Damage and Optimal Range
5% Lock Range
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-01-27 10:44:09 UTC
you do know fair and objective people saw the death of missile naga on sisi and did not mourn its passing (the arrival hybrid naga was in fact celebrated), right? Or are you going to tell loads of sisi testers they were fitting and flying it wrong?


Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#9 - 2014-01-27 11:37:20 UTC
Count Szadek wrote:
I Think you are actually looking for just a T2 Tier 3 Battlecruiser honestly (Which I would love to see FYI...wink wink)
Be advised these are only 2 sec bonuses so bear with:

Heavy Assault Battecruiser (HABs)

T2 Naga: RHM Boat
10% Heavy Missile Damage
20% Heavy Missile Load Size




no i think maybe..
-% cpu / pg use for torp/cruise
-75% range for cruise missiles (so down to like 50/70km)
+velocity (all missiles) per level so its not locked to just cruise but can use hams or heavys or even torps.
+10% bonus to explosion radius and explosion speed per level. ( as a full rack of 8 cruise missiles is like 1000 dps anyway so it could compete with tengu.)

and since its t2 throw on enough mbit and m3 for 5 small drones.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2014-01-27 11:56:28 UTC
Or..... This could be the direction black ops go to make them useful in combat rather than weaker than T1's.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2014-01-27 15:09:27 UTC
This sounds a lot like a potential direction for pirate faction battleships. Mach and Vindicator are already somewhat like this.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Bullet Therapist
FT Cold Corporation
#12 - 2014-01-27 15:36:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullet Therapist
While I agree that CCP should introduce a true t2 battleship, attack battle-cruisers have cornered the marked on speed and firepower. I'd rather see 4 new attack battle cruisers first though, perhaps with an emphasis on drones and missiles instead of gunnery.

Let mobility stay with the pirate battleships. I think tank and application is a much better direction to take battleships.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-01-27 17:14:00 UTC
the idea of a heavy assault battleship makes sense...but what role would they have?, marauders are the big tank, big damage ships, while being vulnerable to jamming. black ops sacrifice tank for being able to travel unseen and being able to use covert cynos.

a HAB would have to have something that makes it unique apart of the microwarp bonus. it could be an anti cruiser/BC platform, something that attack BCs do already, so the other thing would be an anticapital platform. and by that extend it means a BS being able to mount XL weapons and that would mean the last thing in order to kill dreads.

a new T2 battleship hull should fill a role, but right now we dont have much for it
Jaz Antollare
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-01-27 17:32:47 UTC
May be a logistic battleship - like evolution of the logistic crusier role but not a carrier yet?? That could provide normal firepower and high quality logistic support? Just saying.

Its bad that the logi role progress quits if you dont train for capital logistics...
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#15 - 2014-01-27 17:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Silivar Karkun wrote:
a new T2 battleship hull should fill a role, but right now we dont have much for it

This is part of the reason I'd like to see combat BCs upgraded to light BSes rather than being heavy cruisers. Command ships would be perf 10/10 HABs.

Oh god.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-01-27 18:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
Jaz Antollare wrote:
May be a logistic battleship - like evolution of the logistic crusier role but not a carrier yet?? That could provide normal firepower and high quality logistic support? Just saying.

Its bad that the logi role progress quits if you dont train for capital logistics...


i think it has been suggested before, but it seems it would enter in conflict with the current logistics. but i think its a good idea. the nestor is the first iteration of a logistic BS (still needs to ve revised but anyways lets see how it pans out).

a logistic BS is the last role to be taken TBH, it could be:

-T2 Rokh, bonuses for shield repping, can use hybrid turrets or launchers, made by Ishukone

-T2 Abaddon, bonuses for cap transfer and armor repping, uses launchers, made by Khanid Innovations

-T2 Hyperion, bonuses for armor repping, uses hybrids, made by Roden Shipyards

-T2 Maelstrom, bonuses for shield repping, can use projectiles or launchers, made by Core Complexion

the thing is, which would be the tradeoff of a logi BS, DPS?, mobility?.....
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#17 - 2014-01-27 18:26:41 UTC
there are other roles that could be exploited but it could mean a change in balance for the current metagame:

-EWAR Battleships (iterating from the new Scorpion for example)

-HABs.......basically same as a HAC but at BS lvl

-Siege BS.......can use the same siege modules as a dread or use the bastion module, designed to take down structures in high sec, low sec and WH space. if there are no capitals in place....
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-01-27 18:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Dolorous Tremmens
Logi BS should have the same role as logi cruisers: no combat bonuses, only repping bonuses. Higher resists, no change in shield armor or hull HP. As BS's they wouldn't need to use the range/angular velocity/sig tank that the cruisers have, so they could stay with the main pack of the blob, instead of being in a separate group in the same fleet. Since they will be in the same pack, less range bonuses are needed, but these are BS we're talking about being logi, so the huge problem will be target locking time.

Giving a bonus to the scan res would be good, and getting more sensor strength would also work well. Another facet is the next level up of repairing. The current logi ship uses logi modules one class above the hull size, ( large reps, cruiser hull). The BS logi gets a few cap remote rep modules? Could break armor again. Shield alpha repping.

This is nice to dream about and all, but the ship couldn't really be cost effective since a t2 battleship hull would cost nearly as much as a carrier

Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-01-27 21:27:50 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Or..... This could be the direction black ops go to make them useful in combat rather than weaker than T1's.



this...shows some promise. Would be nice to have all current t2 BS' fixed before even looking at new ones and and blops are the grey elephant left standing in the room (as marauders have been touched of late).

OP's idea bonuses would fit in with the ninjya hot drop idea. Drop fast, hit fast, gtfo fast when done or the plan backfires. they do need something.

Changes would have to be more than what ccp has given already. As iirc lots of t1 BS's in rebalance already had this attack BS idea in mind already applied. If memory servers navy mega lost some tank but got some speed in the rebalance and I want to say rokh did as well.
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-01-27 21:51:48 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Soooooo.... attack (tier 3) battlecruisers?



But they use capital launchers.....oh wait.....
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