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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

First post First post First post
Author
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#1941 - 2014-01-22 15:12:09 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Has there been any thought to this being used as a bubble between 2 warp points instead of a pve tool? Presumably, I could drop this mid-way between 2 gates and it would pull anyone crossing it out of warp, including ships that are currently immune to this. How does it compare to existing bubble devices?


You presume wrong - bubbles don't work that way.

A bubble has to be on the grid you were landing on, in line with your warp. Putting one mid-way between 2 gates will not pull anyone out of warp onto that grid unless they were already trying to land on that grid for some reason.

The bubble effect on the ESS won't be any different, I'm quite sure.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#1942 - 2014-01-22 15:13:15 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:


That's all I could find. Still leaves some questions.


Look harder and read the devblog and blue posts again, again.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#1943 - 2014-01-22 15:14:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ZynnLee Akkori
So then people could replace a normal bubble in the normal place with the ESS and be able to trap inty and covops (which are immune to regular bubbles?) due to the recent change nullifying their normal immunity to a bubble?
Tahnil
Gunboat Commando
#1944 - 2014-01-22 15:18:51 UTC
Why should this be possible?

ESS will have a regular bubble (nothing special about that!) PLUS an infinipoint (directed HIC point) for anybody who is currently interacting with the module.
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#1945 - 2014-01-22 15:19:11 UTC
Turelus wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Just to spell out the maths.

Start point. No ESS. 95% today.
ESS. Assuming 1k/lp. Lower than it is currently, lets not doom & gloom crazy, because as price of LP drops from supply, more people will buy the now cheaper items, keeping price partly modulated. So LP won't crash.
80% ISK + 15% LP. 95%. NO OVERALL LOSS EVEN IF YOU GET NOTHING FROM THE ESS.

Upgraded ESS.
80% ISK + 20% LP LP. 100%. GAIN ABOVE NO ESS ALREADY.

Upgraded ESS + Payout
80% ISK + 25% ISK + 20% LP. 125%. MASSIVE PAYOUT GAIN.

So, Deploying the ESS is actually very low risk now. You stand to loose the initial 30 Million if you don't get any upgrade ticks done before it gets stolen from & blown up. But unless LP crashes badly (Since it's actually above 1k for most LP anyway, so can drop a bit before making 1k an invalid number) you make the lost 15% isk back in LP, if not quite as convenient. And if you actually manage to upgrade it and get the payout from the ESS when hostiles come through or you are simply done ratting, you make a bucket load of profit.

It's looking good now.


How will -10 sec status people cash in their LP?


LowSec stations and hauling alts, like most people with -10.
Although I doubt you will be -10 long if you grind any meaningful amount of LP this way.


Right, so additional hassle to get the benefit from this module. Fantastic.

Because someone who lives in nullsec should have to go to lowsec and have a hauling alt to be able to receive their ratting income. Lets take all hisec mission bounties/payouts and make it so people have to go to lowsec to pick up 20% of their reward. It's just as absurd an idea.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1946 - 2014-01-22 15:27:08 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Right, so additional hassle to get the benefit from this module. Fantastic.

The beatings will continue until morale improves
Thead Enco
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1947 - 2014-01-22 15:39:12 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
posting here in efforts of getting this thread to 100 pages \o/


Yes, posting here in efforts of actully not reading the comments of said thread.
Turelus
Utassi Security
#1948 - 2014-01-22 15:50:54 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Turelus wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


How will -10 sec status people cash in their LP?


LowSec stations and hauling alts, like most people with -10.
Although I doubt you will be -10 long if you grind any meaningful amount of LP this way.


Right, so additional hassle to get the benefit from this module. Fantastic.

Because someone who lives in nullsec should have to go to lowsec and have a hauling alt to be able to receive their ratting income. Lets take all hisec mission bounties/payouts and make it so people have to go to lowsec to pick up 20% of their reward. It's just as absurd an idea.

Well if you go back and read my previous posts I was actually asking CCP if we can have the LP stores enabled in our own outposts so we can claim our goodies there.
I think it's stupid needing to go back to Empire to redeem something we made in NullSec, but you were posting as it the -10 was crippling not that it was just annoying needing to head back to Empire to do something.

Initially when CCP SoniClover made the LP post I thought CCP had dropped all the stupid ISK games from this module and made it a gamble on LP, but the lP is just something to try and make it worth using, which it still isn't.

We have a 5% bounties nerf because NullSec is making too much ISK then a module which fixes that nerf entirely and even lets you bring in more ISK. The only way this module will have any effect on slowing the flow of ISK from NullSec is if it's so bad no one wants to use it, which... it exactly what its current state is.

This just means CCP might as well have nerfed all bounties in EVE by 5% announced they took steps to negate future inflation and spent all the Development time from this module working on some more positive.

I have made more post in this thread than any other in EVE history, I have been polite and put forth questions and arguments and quite only the only impression I have had is CCP refuse to back down on their "awesome" idea which everyone is trying to point out very constructively wont achieve any of their goals (no one will fight over this).

Predicting right here and now, the ESS will be a failed feature and not receive any updates or support post release (when Super Friends are moved to their next project) and I will go back and point to this very post on my phone when I speak to CCP Devs at fanfest about how the ESS was a failure.

I want to believe in CCP being a great company which understands what their game needs, and maybe I will eat my words after this five year plan is done but right now... five years is a long time to play in a sandbox full of dog poo.

/endrant.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security

Mag's
Azn Empire
#1949 - 2014-01-22 16:02:06 UTC
It's still a very poorly thought out idea.

The new changes, are rather like spreading cream over a turd.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Tahnil
Gunboat Commando
#1950 - 2014-01-22 16:03:35 UTC
Turelus wrote:
I have made more post in this thread than any other in EVE history, I have been polite and put forth questions and arguments and quite only the only impression I have had is CCP refuse to back down on their "awesome" idea which everyone is trying to point out very constructively wont achieve any of their goals (no one will fight over this).


You are wrong.
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#1951 - 2014-01-22 16:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Keuvo
Turelus wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Turelus wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


How will -10 sec status people cash in their LP?


LowSec stations and hauling alts, like most people with -10.
Although I doubt you will be -10 long if you grind any meaningful amount of LP this way.


Right, so additional hassle to get the benefit from this module. Fantastic.

Because someone who lives in nullsec should have to go to lowsec and have a hauling alt to be able to receive their ratting income. Lets take all hisec mission bounties/payouts and make it so people have to go to lowsec to pick up 20% of their reward. It's just as absurd an idea.

Well if you go back and read my previous posts I was actually asking CCP if we can have the LP stores enabled in our own outposts so we can claim our goodies there.
I think it's stupid needing to go back to Empire to redeem something we made in NullSec, but you were posting as it the -10 was crippling not that it was just annoying needing to head back to Empire to do something.

Initially when CCP SoniClover made the LP post I thought CCP had dropped all the stupid ISK games from this module and made it a gamble on LP, but the lP is just something to try and make it worth using, which it still isn't.

We have a 5% bounties nerf because NullSec is making too much ISK then a module which fixes that nerf entirely and even lets you bring in more ISK. The only way this module will have any effect on slowing the flow of ISK from NullSec is if it's so bad no one wants to use it, which... it exactly what its current state is.

This just means CCP might as well have nerfed all bounties in EVE by 5% announced they took steps to negate future inflation and spent all the Development time from this module working on some more positive.

I have made more post in this thread than any other in EVE history, I have been polite and put forth questions and arguments and quite only the only impression I have had is CCP refuse to back down on their "awesome" idea which everyone is trying to point out very constructively wont achieve any of their goals (no one will fight over this).

Predicting right here and now, the ESS will be a failed feature and not receive any updates or support post release (when Super Friends are moved to their next project) and I will go back and point to this very post on my phone when I speak to CCP Devs at fanfest about how the ESS was a failure.

I want to believe in CCP being a great company which understands what their game needs, and maybe I will eat my words after this five year plan is done but right now... five years is a long time to play in a sandbox full of dog poo.

/endrant.



Agreed. This module for some reason appears to be someone's pet project that they want jammed into Eve so badly that they are turning a blind eye to damn near 100 pages of posts telling them its a bad idea. I expect CCP to come up with bad ideas and then implement them horribly. But we have now had nearly 100 pages of player posts on this subject, and even the players cannot come up with a way to make this module viable and useable. The only thing I have seen suggested that comes close would be if deploying this module allowed your system to have +1 more of the next highest class of anomaly beyond what your system normally gets. And this is more a result of the fact that group PvE content in nullsec in non-existant and that CCP has refused to fix the joke that is sov null upgrades being able to support more than 4-5 ratters in even the best fully upgraded system.

I'm telling you now that forcing this unwanted piece of sh*t into Eve is every bit as bad as WiS was and I really hope the player reaction is exactly the same.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1952 - 2014-01-22 16:11:41 UTC
We really need the doctor to spread his inflation love all over us like cream cheese...

Though just because inflation was under control in the summer does not mean it's totally under control now. Apparently there was a huge influx of new characters which might have saturated the market with isk.

Example being plex prices at an all time high.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Wyn Pharoh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1953 - 2014-01-22 16:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyn Pharoh
Turelus wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Turelus wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


How will -10 sec status people cash in their LP?


LowSec stations and hauling alts, like most people with -10.
Although I doubt you will be -10 long if you grind any meaningful amount of LP this way.


Right, so additional hassle to get the benefit from this module. Fantastic.

Because someone who lives in nullsec should have to go to lowsec and have a hauling alt to be able to receive their ratting income. Lets take all hisec mission bounties/payouts and make it so people have to go to lowsec to pick up 20% of their reward. It's just as absurd an idea.

Well if you go back and read my previous posts I was actually asking CCP if we can have the LP stores enabled in our own outposts so we can claim our goodies there.
I think it's stupid needing to go back to Empire to redeem something we made in NullSec, but you were posting as it the -10 was crippling not that it was just annoying needing to head back to Empire to do something.

Initially when CCP SoniClover made the LP post I thought CCP had dropped all the stupid ISK games from this module and made it a gamble on LP, but the lP is just something to try and make it worth using, which it still isn't.

We have a 5% bounties nerf because NullSec is making too much ISK then a module which fixes that nerf entirely and even lets you bring in more ISK. The only way this module will have any effect on slowing the flow of ISK from NullSec is if it's so bad no one wants to use it, which... it exactly what its current state is.

This just means CCP might as well have nerfed all bounties in EVE by 5% announced they took steps to negate future inflation and spent all the Development time from this module working on some more positive.

I have made more post in this thread than any other in EVE history, I have been polite and put forth questions and arguments and quite only the only impression I have had is CCP refuse to back down on their "awesome" idea which everyone is trying to point out very constructively wont achieve any of their goals (no one will fight over this).

Predicting right here and now, the ESS will be a failed feature and not receive any updates or support post release (when Super Friends are moved to their next project) and I will go back and point to this very post on my phone when I speak to CCP Devs at fanfest about how the ESS was a failure.

I want to believe in CCP being a great company which understands what their game needs, and maybe I will eat my words after this five year plan is done but right now... five years is a long time to play in a sandbox full of dog poo.

/endrant.

This thread just keeps goin! I do need to take a moment to remind folks panning this content (I'm firmly in the 'Its not WORTHY of TQ yet category) to keep focus on issues that are fundamental. There are already Officer/Overseer Effects that are being sent to Empire for isk. The faction loot y'all pick up in pirate Null is also going to empire for isk. Its easier to use a hauler alt to cash out on these things, and everyone already does exactly that, or pays something to their corp logistics staff for it. Right, it will be an inconvenience to cash out the LP directly. I hope that some of you actually take at least 1 day a week, month or year off of Eve. If you do, then...ah Jumpclone??? Come back, liquidate LP, move J-clone home.

If this goes live, get multiple faction models, don't just pile all your LP into one market. I'm not here to promo the module, but 'sky is falling' concerns aren't going to sway Team Dev into making this better before it goes live. It still isn't healthy enough to really promote PVP fit ratting, and that's something that would be winning for Eve. Its a shaft to Provibloc politically and Drones mechanically, none of which has been addressed. Bottom tier truesec systems will still be bad and Top tier systems will just continue stacking bodies, creating even greater empty pockets of unused null than we find now.

Off to sell/trade thannys for archons, I really needed slowcat fits anyways.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1954 - 2014-01-22 16:56:25 UTC
EI Digin wrote:

CCP SoniClover wrote:

Also, some of the stats have changed:
* Hit points increased from 150k to 250k


What I don't like about the current revision is that it has no reinforcement timer. If it can take a long time to get that extra 5%, someone shouldn't be able to erase that bonus while you and your corp members sleep, and 24/7 coverage should never be an expectation.

Not to mention that the EHP increase does not really change much, instead of taking approximately 5 minutes for a single bomber to take one out, it takes approximately 8 minutes. I would suggest around the 1 million ehp mark, high enough that one solo person isn't going to want to go around killing these but low enough that a small gang could easily take one out within a short amount of time while at the same time allowing the defender to form up (5 to 10 minutes), and have a lasting impact on the defenders (the grind to 5%) if they don't defend.

Overall the changes make the module better, but I believe there is still iteration to be done.


You do realize you can scoop it back into your cargo hold when you are done for the night?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1955 - 2014-01-22 17:11:47 UTC
Turelus wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Turelus wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


How will -10 sec status people cash in their LP?


LowSec stations and hauling alts, like most people with -10.
Although I doubt you will be -10 long if you grind any meaningful amount of LP this way.


Right, so additional hassle to get the benefit from this module. Fantastic.

Because someone who lives in nullsec should have to go to lowsec and have a hauling alt to be able to receive their ratting income. Lets take all hisec mission bounties/payouts and make it so people have to go to lowsec to pick up 20% of their reward. It's just as absurd an idea.

Well if you go back and read my previous posts I was actually asking CCP if we can have the LP stores enabled in our own outposts so we can claim our goodies there.
I think it's stupid needing to go back to Empire to redeem something we made in NullSec, but you were posting as it the -10 was crippling not that it was just annoying needing to head back to Empire to do something.

Initially when CCP SoniClover made the LP post I thought CCP had dropped all the stupid ISK games from this module and made it a gamble on LP, but the lP is just something to try and make it worth using, which it still isn't.

We have a 5% bounties nerf because NullSec is making too much ISK then a module which fixes that nerf entirely and even lets you bring in more ISK. The only way this module will have any effect on slowing the flow of ISK from NullSec is if it's so bad no one wants to use it, which... it exactly what its current state is.

This just means CCP might as well have nerfed all bounties in EVE by 5% announced they took steps to negate future inflation and spent all the Development time from this module working on some more positive.

I have made more post in this thread than any other in EVE history, I have been polite and put forth questions and arguments and quite only the only impression I have had is CCP refuse to back down on their "awesome" idea which everyone is trying to point out very constructively wont achieve any of their goals (no one will fight over this).

Predicting right here and now, the ESS will be a failed feature and not receive any updates or support post release (when Super Friends are moved to their next project) and I will go back and point to this very post on my phone when I speak to CCP Devs at fanfest about how the ESS was a failure.

I want to believe in CCP being a great company which understands what their game needs, and maybe I will eat my words after this five year plan is done but right now... five years is a long time to play in a sandbox full of dog poo.

/endrant.


Part of the issue in adding LP stores to Outposts, is which LP store goes in the outpost? NPC stations are affiliated with a single corp, and so are LP.

As for your "no one will use it"... several members of the CFC have already said the iterations to the module have increase the rewards to the point they are absolutely considering using it. You don't have to use it, but I'm fairly certain the latest iteration will be used.

I personally think the ESS access times need to be increased some: 1 Minute to get the share all option, 5 minutes to get the take all option. After that, the module is a great addition to the game!
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1956 - 2014-01-22 17:22:41 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Turelus wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Turelus wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


How will -10 sec status people cash in their LP?


LowSec stations and hauling alts, like most people with -10.
Although I doubt you will be -10 long if you grind any meaningful amount of LP this way.


Right, so additional hassle to get the benefit from this module. Fantastic.

Because someone who lives in nullsec should have to go to lowsec and have a hauling alt to be able to receive their ratting income. Lets take all hisec mission bounties/payouts and make it so people have to go to lowsec to pick up 20% of their reward. It's just as absurd an idea.

Well if you go back and read my previous posts I was actually asking CCP if we can have the LP stores enabled in our own outposts so we can claim our goodies there.
I think it's stupid needing to go back to Empire to redeem something we made in NullSec, but you were posting as it the -10 was crippling not that it was just annoying needing to head back to Empire to do something.

Initially when CCP SoniClover made the LP post I thought CCP had dropped all the stupid ISK games from this module and made it a gamble on LP, but the lP is just something to try and make it worth using, which it still isn't.

We have a 5% bounties nerf because NullSec is making too much ISK then a module which fixes that nerf entirely and even lets you bring in more ISK. The only way this module will have any effect on slowing the flow of ISK from NullSec is if it's so bad no one wants to use it, which... it exactly what its current state is.

This just means CCP might as well have nerfed all bounties in EVE by 5% announced they took steps to negate future inflation and spent all the Development time from this module working on some more positive.

I have made more post in this thread than any other in EVE history, I have been polite and put forth questions and arguments and quite only the only impression I have had is CCP refuse to back down on their "awesome" idea which everyone is trying to point out very constructively wont achieve any of their goals (no one will fight over this).

Predicting right here and now, the ESS will be a failed feature and not receive any updates or support post release (when Super Friends are moved to their next project) and I will go back and point to this very post on my phone when I speak to CCP Devs at fanfest about how the ESS was a failure.

I want to believe in CCP being a great company which understands what their game needs, and maybe I will eat my words after this five year plan is done but right now... five years is a long time to play in a sandbox full of dog poo.

/endrant.


Part of the issue in adding LP stores to Outposts, is which LP store goes in the outpost? NPC stations are affiliated with a single corp, and so are LP.

As for your "no one will use it"... several members of the CFC have already said the iterations to the module have increase the rewards to the point they are absolutely considering using it. You don't have to use it, but I'm fairly certain the latest iteration will be used.

I personally think the ESS access times need to be increased some: 1 Minute to get the share all option, 5 minutes to get the take all option. After that, the module is a great addition to the game!



LP stores are new outpost upgrades. Pay a (small) franchise fee, have an LP store in your outpost. Perhaps with 'slightly' elevated isk costs, which go to the alliance that controls the station. Or you get a flat cut (1%?) with a flat fee.

:design: Blink

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#1957 - 2014-01-22 17:24:28 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


Part of the issue in adding LP stores to Outposts, is which LP store goes in the outpost? NPC stations are affiliated with a single corp, and so are LP.

As for your "no one will use it"... several members of the CFC have already said the iterations to the module have increase the rewards to the point they are absolutely considering using it. You don't have to use it, but I'm fairly certain the latest iteration will be used.

I personally think the ESS access times need to be increased some: 1 Minute to get the share all option, 5 minutes to get the take all option. After that, the module is a great addition to the game!



It's cute that you think that this module will generate small gang pvp opportunities and not just result in the locals griefing you by warping to the thing at range in a seboed ceptor once every N minutes to lock you up and stop the payout timer.
Turelus
Utassi Security
#1958 - 2014-01-22 17:28:25 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Part of the issue in adding LP stores to Outposts, is which LP store goes in the outpost? NPC stations are affiliated with a single corp, and so are LP.

As for your "no one will use it"... several members of the CFC have already said the iterations to the module have increase the rewards to the point they are absolutely considering using it. You don't have to use it, but I'm fairly certain the latest iteration will be used.

I personally think the ESS access times need to be increased some: 1 Minute to get the share all option, 5 minutes to get the take all option. After that, the module is a great addition to the game!


I made a post asking CCP how viable a new Corporation for each Empire would be, something like a "Caldari Navy Requisitions Corp." (I know it's a terrible name) that was CCP could hand pick the LP items and values which wouldn't mess too much with with NPC corps being used in Empire. It would also mean they could mix items from both the combat and industry LP stores.

We could then rent LP stores in outposts for those corporations.

I'm sure there will be some people which will use the ESS, but I don't think it's going to be a resounding success like the Deport or MTU, which just means most of NullSec is going to end up with their line members making less ISK.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1959 - 2014-01-22 17:54:32 UTC
A lot of you who are decrying the ESS and saying it won't get used are missing a significant point. It's not that it won't get used -- quite the contrary, it HAS to be used. The ESS will soon be the fulcrum by which CCP is able to adjust nullsec ratting in a positive direction. If you own or rent space in nullsec and want your space to ever become more lucrative, I urge you to shoulder the risk and embrace the Encounter Surveillance System. Without it, any potential benefits that could be conceived will be hamstrung by the spectre of the "ISK FAUCET."

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

MrStock
Tritanium Industries and Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#1960 - 2014-01-22 19:13:35 UTC
Just want to say, i dont want the ESS.