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First off, the only people who are likely to use it are small or solo renter corps in backwater systems. Because those are the only people likely not to suffer from the drama issues of having hundreds of blues who could steal the tags. Major power blocks hold most of the space, so as it stands now this thing will not be seen in entire regions. Don't come looking for one in Deklein, because not only will they be KOS, but we will likely kick blues who insist on anchoring them.


I think they should ditch the idea that it keeps a portion of the ratters' bounties. Roaming gangs can already hurt income by chasing off the ratters. The roamers can make isk looting the wrecks of ratters they kill, or even running the PvE content after chasing off the locals.

Nullsec alliances already have to spend isk and effort to upgrade a system to produce all this isk making PvE content. If roamers want to dip into that, they should have to grind the PvE stuff like the locals, or be actual pirates and loot the ratting ships. A "give me the ratters' isk" button is such a lame low-effort cop out. If there is going to be a "steal the isk" feature, it should be tied to hacking, so that it takes at least some effort/skills/fitting beyond 'open dialog box, press button'.

To get away from the whole isk inflation issue, the ESS should give out Concord LP. The longer the ratters can keep the ESS alive, the more LP/rat they get. Then it might be something worth putting up and defending without being an even worse isk printer. Really, if CCP is worried about isk production, and the ESS is widely used, it will cause even more isk production because there are just not enough roaming gangs to kill them all.

…except that the combination of the two means it doesn't actually increase anything — it just restores it to normal and puts that restoration, and more, at risk. As such, it also over (according to the testers a very long) time increase it insignificantly while still putting everything at risk.

So it most definitely makes things less productive out the gate because that's how CCP has stupidly decided to make this abomination “worth-while”.

You read that one wrong. It's not hard to change the ratio. It's a single SQL command. What I'm saying that it will be next to impossible for it to actually happen since, based on the dialogue we've seen here, they have no interest in doing so.

They can optionally lose 5% or their income or risk 20%. So yes, the loss is mechanically enforced no matter which option they choose. Neither for a good reason, and neither with anything worth-while balancing it out. Because no matter how much you try to paint it as anything else, the 5% reduction is a part of the ESS mechanic. It's the single point of the change that gives the ESS any reason (even if it's an utterly idiotic one) to exist. Remove the ESS, and the reduction has no point; remove the reduction, and the ESS has no point.

Or, more accurately, both are pointless because they're just a coupling of an artificial problem and an artificial solution — both of which have only been invented to give the other a reason to exist.

I get the distinct impression that Fix Sov needs different blues

Are you going to kick corps who put them up?

EDIT: nm he answered that in a later post

As I mentioned in the GD thread about the ESS;

If it goes live as currently planned, and if it is used widely, I will;

Get in an interceptor, warp to every ESS in non-friendly space, press the "take all" button, and go to the next system.

I won't even try to collect the stupid tags because I'm already rich.

What I will do is be grinning ear to ear, because I know that those ratters are going to have to manually divide up those tags and truck them to empire to get their isk. And no doubt, some of those guys are going to be at each others' throats because they didn't think the tags were divided evenly, or one of their blues will take them all and try to blame me.

Wait. So are you going to awox or only do it to nuet/reds (or both)?

I'll just do it to neut/reds. Setting aside that none of my blues are going to use the thing, I wouldn't do it to blues because I would get kicked from GSF, and this game isn't worth playing if I'm not with my fellow Goons.

Although, I do imagine it would be something awoxers do just to screw with their target corp even more. But I think a better tactic would be to drop one, wait for the locals to come out and blow it up, and then light a cyno to bring in the gank fleet.


As I also mentioned in the GD thread;

Imagine a button that will take 20% of the ore out of all the mining ships in a given highsec system, and dump it all into one can next to the sun. The can could be looted by anyone or just popped with a Thrasher. You don't think this button wouldn't be abused as a major griefing tool, and highsec miners would be screaming for the button to be removed?

That was my point. If someone is going to awox, then they will awox. Doesn't much matter if its a 30mil deployable or a 30mil ship. Awoxing is always something that has to be dealt with, there are ways of dealing with it, and everyone accepts this.
You can't consistently object to the module on the grounds of "but a blue can steal mah iskies" without also objecting to all new items because "but a blue can shoot mah 30mil [insert item]"

How to put this nicely ... How about not talking out of your rectum?

No, at that point the ESS would be worthless.
It would be a solution to a problem that no longer exists.

I'm not sure how many more pages before you finally get it, but here's the short version of the design:
- The ESS is not allowed to give an incentive for its use.
- The ESS then has to be given a stick with which to beat non-users.
- The ESS should not increase total income even when used "correctly".

Conclusion: 5% nerf across the board, no incentive to speak of.
If the ESS did not have the 5% nerf, it would be useless. That's the really easy part.

If the ESS was not about the stick, but carrot (So you optionally risk to get potential benefits) and the mechanics were such that it was feasible to achieve those rewards and defending it was both sensible and had such a chance to succeed to make it likely to profit over long-term use ...
Well, in other words, if it was all the nice things you wrongly claimed the ESS is or can be ...

It might be used. If the ESS would be nothing like what we see before us, we might see it used.
As it is, the ESS is an imaginary solution to an imaginary problem, with a few bad sideeffects.

I'd say "thanks but no thanks", but unfortunately those who actually live in nullsec are forced to get extremely rich with this wonderful module, so I guess I'll just have to suck it up with all my coming ESS wealth, right?
Gizznitt Malikite, you're wrong. Come patch day, expect you might see it.

I won't hold my breath for CCP.

This is a logical fallacy.

If bounties were adjusted downwards rather heavily and the ESS was a module you installed in the IHUB which restored the bounties to their proper level, but it was hackable so a roaming gang could rob it for parts of the last tick's accumulated isk or incap it to annoy the locals, then it would be an actual target which the locals would have an incentive to install and utilize, and which would still provide some F&F functionality the roaming gangs could aim for (and which would be ignored at their peril or defended if they felt like it vOv). It'd actually be worth using.

It wouldn't be a 30m module anyone could blow up or rob for hours' worth of invested bounties, it wouldn't be something you had to pay attention to constantly, wasting time and money by being less efficient than if you'd let that char/account come with you to help red crosses go boom quicker, etc etc etc ... and it's just not worth it.