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[Rubicon 1.1] Drone Shield Regen Speeds

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2014-01-17 20:18:20 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Fozzie suggestion for fighterbombers. Reduce sig radius on them otherwise you are going to have 1 dude running a Isboxer killing 100's of fighterbombers on each pass. Which is dumb since Supercarriers can only carry 1 flight of Fighterbombers.


If someone can kill 100s of fighterbombers in a pass after 1.1, that means they can also do it right now. We're not changing total HP in this adjustment, just regen rate of shields.

Discussions about hp and sig radius of fighters and fighterbombers are worth having, but this is a change specifically to fix the defect surrounding the shield regen rates and the effect this was having on lighter sources of damage to drones.


Can we discuss whether carriers should even have dronebays? They're meant to be logistics ships, I don't get why they get all this extra stuff.

As worthwhile a discussion this is to have, the thread for this is coming. Most likely by 2015.

I suppose there is nothing stopping a new thread on the discussion in the general F&I area.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-01-17 21:23:48 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
25%


ok so with script you get 15% op and 30% falloff

That's with 2 mods whereas before you got 25% to each with 1. So in no way can a single mod get you what it did prior range wise. Additionally limiting that reduction in range bonus to 10% rather than 17.5% means giving up any of the tracking bonus.
Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2014-01-17 21:58:56 UTC
This seems kinda ****** for supercarriers, making it much easier to bomb fb's off the field in big fleet battles. I really do not think this will be a helpful change as far as supers go, as it will just make them more and more useless in the long term tidi fights, which seem to be the norm nowadays. I think at the least you should really consider reducing the sig on fb's to at least make them a bit more sturdy against bombers so that they are not relegated to glorified logistic boats.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#124 - 2014-01-17 22:55:02 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
25%


ok so with script you get 15% op and 30% falloff

That's with 2 mods whereas before you got 25% to each with 1. So in no way can a single mod get you what it did prior range wise. Additionally limiting that reduction in range bonus to 10% rather than 17.5% means giving up any of the tracking bonus.


if you fit a T2 TC with a range script then you do get 15% optimal and 30% falloff...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#125 - 2014-01-18 05:53:06 UTC
Why is it that you felt the need to do THESE changes NOW!(tm) instead of waiting for the Drone Mechanics Balance Pass(tm), which is most definitely NOT "Coming Soon!(tm).

If it were, you wouldn't feel the need to propose these two specific changes as you have (See what I did there? Logic!).

Yet again, there is no one with two brain cells that rub together arguing that drones don't need attention, and a LOT of it. Thus, the question - why these specific changes, right now, when there are so many others you could have made, with far less effort, that would actually help balance ALL drones, not simply nerf Fighters and Fighter Bombers (and before any of you start pointing out that this 'buffed' Light Drones, pull your heads out, and ask if you REALLY want to take me to task for what is now a whopping FOUR DPS TANK?).

What you've done here, with your proposed changes, is offered all stick, with zero carrot, under questionable circumstances. You're offering, using your words, all 'downside', with the vague promise that you'll eventually get around to addressing the rest of the rather lengthy list of drone issues at some later point in time, unless it gets bumped by some other catastrophe.

Thoughts, comments, anything?
Aineko Macx
#126 - 2014-01-18 07:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Aineko Macx
Weaselior wrote:
and supercarriers were deliberately designed around being able to be defanged (hence the limited FB capacity) so that's working as intended

The mechanics of defanging A supercarrier is ok, but the ease of doing so is imbalanced.
What is completely out of whack is that an arbitrarily sized fleet of them can be neutralized with constant and low effort.

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#127 - 2014-01-18 14:11:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day.
At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.

This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships.
Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.

This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.

At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:

Light - 125s
Medium - 200s
Heavy - 250s
Sentry - 400s
Fighter - 500s
Fighter Bomber - 750s

This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly.

Goon story, bro.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#128 - 2014-01-19 03:56:32 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Could probably just delete fighters altogether at this point.

Not like anyone would really notice anyway.


Grarr Dexx wrote:
lol pee el crying about fb nerfs


We're collectively writing letters to Internal Affairs about it, so we can be just as mad as you were about that 'Kings of Lowsec' competition you lost.


where's ur flag mate
Zz Lazer
Doomheim
#129 - 2014-01-19 11:48:23 UTC
I am old and retired -> can you tell me why training has to take years to effectively play this game? I might be dead before I can fly a super.

Looking at EveMon, training time is the most frustrating thing ever, period.

Quote:
Let us buy skill points
- this drone rebalance is just not important to me at all.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2014-01-19 12:07:47 UTC
any plans on fixing amarr scout and heavy drones?
Optimo Sebiestor
The New Eden School of trade
Organization of Skill Extracting Corporations
#131 - 2014-01-19 12:59:56 UTC
Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s..
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#132 - 2014-01-20 14:22:08 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quick announcement to start what will be a busy day.
At the moment, all drones have the same shieldRechargeRate stat. All the way from Acolytes to Mantis'.

This was not an intended pattern and since the balance effects of fighter bombers sporting battlecruiser level passive tanks (mainly resistance to smartbombs and non-coordinated bombs) are negative we're going ahead and giving each size of drone a different shield recharge time just as we do with ships.
Like with ships, the larger drones get better hp/s but the difference will now be much smaller. Light and medium drones are getting buffed, heavies staying the same, sentries through to fighter bombers nerfed.

This stat affects the time it takes the shields to regenerate passively from 0 to full. Lower is better.

At the moment every drone has a recharge time of 250s, post patch it will be:

Light - 125s
Medium - 200s
Heavy - 250s
Sentry - 400s
Fighter - 500s
Fighter Bomber - 750s

This change will be on SISI for your testing shortly.


Current numbers using highest shield capacity examples (note that all other Fighters & Fighter-Bombers will have lower numbers):
Dragonfly - 3000 / 250 = 12 DPS passive tank
Mantis - 6000 / 250 = 24 DPS passive tank

Proposed change will result in:
Dragonfly - 3000 / 500 = 6 DPS passive tank
Mantis - 6000 / 750 = 8 DPS passive tank

Are Fighters and Fighter-Bombers truly so overpowered that you feel it necessary to cut their shield regen rates by 50% and 67%, respectively?

Also, who the hell flies a BC relying upon a whopping TWENTY-FOUR DPS passive shield tank? (Your words, not mine, Fozzie). You WERE referring to a fitted-and-flown BC, weren't you? Otherwise, you're going to have to nerf things even further just to reach Drake level (5250 / 1400 = 3.75, or, about the same as your new, super beefy Hobgoblin. YARRR!!!).

The REAL questions should be - "Should a Fighter have roughly the same tank as a well-fit frigate? Should a Fighter-Bomber have approximately the same tank as a decent cruiser?"

Considering the costs and training time involved in acquiring the ability to properly utilize these drones, the questions and comparisons are sensible.

As the only offensive capability fielded by ships costing in the billions, and as units that, themselves, cost what a nicely-fit cruiser does, having that level of passive defense is not inappropriate.

Now, if you have further plans in the works to enhance the durability of these units, fine, be it through adjusted stats, an additional skill, or allowing them to benefit from existing skills, fine.

Make this change at that time. Otherwise, you're just punishing the users of these drones (a) for no reason than that you can, or (b) because there are those who feel it's just too tough to de-fang Carriers and Supercarriers with, again, YOUR WORDS, "NON-COORDINATED BOMBS."

I think we can all reasonably interpret that to mean shoddily-flown and poorly-coordinated and FC'd bombers. I leave it to you to determine which particular null-sec power block I'm inferring that you're sucking up to.
Eric Shang
Russian Villiage Boys
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#133 - 2014-01-20 17:02:12 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range?


There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass.


Please make light drones mwd faster then 7km. Its for those pesky interceptors with links running. Cant shoot them and drones don't work.

Ex Pirate - Now a reborn priest for Faith Singularity

My Pirate Journey: http://ericshangthepirate.wordpress.com/
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2014-01-20 17:19:29 UTC
Eric Shang wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Just put of curiosity, what are your thoughts on increasing heavy drone optimal range to allow them to engage before 2 Km making them useful beyond point blank range?


There's a lot more work we want to do to heavy drones, it's likely that both optimal and MWD speed will be high on the list of stats to look at when we do that pass.


Please make light drones mwd faster then 7km. Its for those pesky interceptors with links running. Cant shoot them and drones don't work.

Algos and warrior II will do that, if you still need more ther is drone navigation computers and rigs to further increase there speed.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#135 - 2014-01-20 20:30:59 UTC
Anyone know what the max shield each drone has? and what are their resists?
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#136 - 2014-01-21 13:12:29 UTC
You can 'Show Info' in the market tab, and get those answers for yourself.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#137 - 2014-01-22 08:04:47 UTC
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s..


CCP must really hate sentry drones. They're getting a tracking nerf, a range nerf AND a shield nerf??? Come on what's next they run out of ammo after a minute so you have to scoop and redeploy do they can "reload"?
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#138 - 2014-01-22 14:18:03 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s..


CCP must really hate sentry drones. They're getting a tracking nerf, a range nerf AND a shield nerf??? Come on what's next they run out of ammo after a minute so you have to scoop and redeploy do they can "reload"?



They just turned sentry drones into a specific weapon system. It does not use ammo, but its now effected as every other gun is in the game, by added modules, overheating, etc.

Now they have to figure out how to overheat drones.

Yaay!!!!
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#139 - 2014-01-22 14:30:36 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s..


CCP must really hate sentry drones. They're getting a tracking nerf, a range nerf AND a shield nerf??? Come on what's next they run out of ammo after a minute so you have to scoop and redeploy do they can "reload"?



Look at the author of this disaster, then look at his past history of game mechanics he has wrecked.
This obliteration of sentries is right in line with everything else he has done.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#140 - 2014-01-22 14:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Icarus Able
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
Please make Sentries the same as Heavy drones.... 250s..


CCP must really hate sentry drones. They're getting a tracking nerf, a range nerf AND a shield nerf??? Come on what's next they run out of ammo after a minute so you have to scoop and redeploy do they can "reload"?



Look at the author of this disaster, then look at his past history of game mechanics he has wrecked.
This obliteration of sentries is right in line with everything else he has done.



Sentry drones are overpowered as ****. The tracking of medium guns with the damage of large guns all that can be put onto some cruiser hulls. Your tears are hilarious.

What game mechanics has he "wrecked"? So far it seems hes hit things with the nerfbat that needed to be nerfed.