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Balancing Feedback: Capital Ships

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Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#521 - 2011-11-23 17:13:36 UTC
haha, just realized tallest is on the job for capital balancing.

GG guys he is out of town till thanksgiving. changes are final for this patch
Gol'dar
Dar Inc.
#522 - 2011-11-23 18:44:19 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Sigras wrote:
so everyone who is whining about having their drone bay size nerfed . . . what if they made it so you could carry 20 fighters and 20 fighter bombers without the ability to mix and match?

IE a separate bay for fighters and fighter bombers.

TL;DR
Do you really want to field a flight of fighters or are you using that as an excuse to field endless amounts of fighter bombers like you can now.


God no! Not a ship made to do dps to other caps that could continue to do dps to other caps as long as it remains on the field! How imba is that!

Yes, people want to be able to carry fighters and bombers (a full compliment of both). No, they're not arguing for bigger bays so they could hold more bombers (35 bombers is already a lot of spares). Even if they did just want to carry more bombers, would anyone give a ****? The original INFINITE DRONES complaint was in regard to SCs ability to field effectively unlimited LIGHT (as in sub-fighter) drones. That is what people were bitching about, because it gave SCs the ability to kill off endless waves of subcaps (which was a valid complaint, though i think the right answer would have been to give SCs a normal drones bay capable of holding, say, 20 light drones, 20 meds, and 20 heavies/sentries rather than eliminating all regular drones entirely).

Noone cares if they can kill endless waves of dreads-- that's their job.


sign
Jaigar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#523 - 2011-11-23 20:45:57 UTC
Wait I'm confused... are Supercarriers supposed to be offensive ships with better cap killing ability than dreads, a better logistical support ship than a carrier, or what exactly?
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#524 - 2011-11-23 20:56:19 UTC
I share the same thoughts Jaigar. The capabilities that make a carrier so great are not amplified by the mom hulls. Not being able to run triage makes absolutly no sense. they are just RR domi's on crack at the moment.
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#525 - 2011-11-23 21:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Draconus Lofwyr
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:
I share the same thoughts Jaigar. The capabilities that make a carrier so great are not amplified by the mom hulls. Not being able to run triage makes absolutly no sense. they are just RR domi's on crack at the moment.




more like on meth, toothless, harmless, anorexic shells of their former selves (at least domi's have the option to fit guns ). With this nerf to uselessness, does that mean they get named back to Motherships, because that's all Mom pilots are going to be able to do, cry to their mommies while twirling in the pos shields..
AnzacPaul
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#526 - 2011-11-24 07:19:30 UTC
Waukesha wrote:
Roboticus420 wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
So I ask again, why do you need more than 15 fighters?



Nyx is the only super able to have 35,so your quote is narrow minded just in those regards,as you would be refering to the other supers as 10Fighters GTFO of here troll
1stly Supers will have optimal amount of fighters due to being intercepted by Subcaps, it happens often enough now, but after the patch alot more Subcap fleets will have the ballz & new compositions to play with to go ballz deep on Supers.
2ndly Fighters are easy enough to take out in various ways. You your self should know that MM has a good bomber wing (the only good thing they have) and 1 of the focus's especially after the patch is going to be to take out Fighters. Alot of alliances if they havn't already are making bomber wings. At least with 20 Fighters you have the numbers out there for a majority to survive and still be somewhat effective.

In the Original patch comments, when some clueless noobs posted about decreasing the drone bay, there wasn't any serious opposition to it. The reason for that is beacuse no1 thought that such stupid comments would be listened to by CCP so didn't think anything of it. Rediculious to think that it was changed & we are now trying to sort the mess out.
Thats what happens when you listen to people who have no idea of the mechanics in question, but only wish to pass biased opinions of how they can make a super as useless as possible to benifit there particular aspect of game play. Listen to the Super pilots, they deserve the benifit of the doubt as alot of us experience every aspect subcap/capital & supercapital alike.

A lion cub wouldn't learn to hunt & kill from a snail, the snail has no experience or knowledge involving those regards.
This analogy applys to Supers, why should those who have no experience or knowledge of mechanics in question have a resounding say over Super pilots. Doesn't make any sence!

Need room for 20 Fighter Bombers & 20 Fighters in drone bay CCP <-- plz read & plz do.



Signed


Signed







Signed.
Isbariya
State War Academy
Caldari State
#527 - 2011-11-24 09:13:05 UTC
AnzacPaul wrote:
Waukesha wrote:
Roboticus420 wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
So I ask again, why do you need more than 15 fighters?



Nyx is the only super able to have 35,so your quote is narrow minded just in those regards,as you would be refering to the other supers as 10Fighters GTFO of here troll
1stly Supers will have optimal amount of fighters due to being intercepted by Subcaps, it happens often enough now, but after the patch alot more Subcap fleets will have the ballz & new compositions to play with to go ballz deep on Supers.
2ndly Fighters are easy enough to take out in various ways. You your self should know that MM has a good bomber wing (the only good thing they have) and 1 of the focus's especially after the patch is going to be to take out Fighters. Alot of alliances if they havn't already are making bomber wings. At least with 20 Fighters you have the numbers out there for a majority to survive and still be somewhat effective.

In the Original patch comments, when some clueless noobs posted about decreasing the drone bay, there wasn't any serious opposition to it. The reason for that is beacuse no1 thought that such stupid comments would be listened to by CCP so didn't think anything of it. Rediculious to think that it was changed & we are now trying to sort the mess out.
Thats what happens when you listen to people who have no idea of the mechanics in question, but only wish to pass biased opinions of how they can make a super as useless as possible to benifit there particular aspect of game play. Listen to the Super pilots, they deserve the benifit of the doubt as alot of us experience every aspect subcap/capital & supercapital alike.

A lion cub wouldn't learn to hunt & kill from a snail, the snail has no experience or knowledge involving those regards.
This analogy applys to Supers, why should those who have no experience or knowledge of mechanics in question have a resounding say over Super pilots. Doesn't make any sence!

Need room for 20 Fighter Bombers & 20 Fighters in drone bay CCP <-- plz read & plz do.



Signed


Signed







Signed.


Signed, Supers need a larger Dronebay. They are renderd completly useless/helpless once the drones are destroyed, which is quite easy when you got a few smartboming ships.
I think a good idea would be to leave the dronebay at 35 for all Supers, but change their stats and boni to the ones the revenant got, +1 fighter/fighter bomber but double the damage.
That would leave us with more spare drones and the nodes would not overload that fast, as well as players pcs.
Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#528 - 2011-11-24 12:17:42 UTC
Baki Yuku wrote:

@CCP Tallest
What about the CPU issues on the Nidhoggur? I mean the Nidhoggur didnt really need more Power Grid..


There are CPU issues with the chimera as well. It's a problem with the CPU load of the Capital Shield Transfers, they are simply too heavy.

Tallest: consider a 15-25 CPU reduction on these modules to ease the fitting issues on the nid and chimera.
Shaak Ti
Star.Men
Fraternity.
#529 - 2011-11-24 12:26:39 UTC
Svennig wrote:
Baki Yuku wrote:

@CCP Tallest
What about the CPU issues on the Nidhoggur? I mean the Nidhoggur didnt really need more Power Grid..


There are CPU issues with the chimera as well. It's a problem with the CPU load of the Capital Shield Transfers, they are simply too heavy.

Tallest: consider a 15-25 CPU reduction on these modules to ease the fitting issues on the nid and chimera.


CCP Tallest is no caring anymore. He heard all the whines he had to and applied the "rebalance" after a few minutes of playing in SISI.

They are now busy fixing the monocle textures, that is where the funny stuff is...
Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#530 - 2011-11-24 12:34:35 UTC
Shaak Ti wrote:


CCP Tallest is no caring anymore. He heard all the whines he had to and applied the "rebalance" after a few minutes of playing in SISI.

They are now busy fixing the monocle textures, that is where the funny stuff is...


Nah, he's here and he cares. You can never fix balancing, it's an ever shifting thing. So while there won't be any further changes for this round of Crucible, it's important that we make the point about CPU issues on carriers so that it's considered seriously when they are planning balancing changes for the next patch. Crucible II or whatever you want to call it.
DaMiGe
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#531 - 2011-11-24 18:10:41 UTC
AnzacPaul wrote:
Waukesha wrote:
Roboticus420 wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
So I ask again, why do you need more than 15 fighters?



Nyx is the only super able to have 35,so your quote is narrow minded just in those regards,as you would be refering to the other supers as 10Fighters GTFO of here troll
1stly Supers will have optimal amount of fighters due to being intercepted by Subcaps, it happens often enough now, but after the patch alot more Subcap fleets will have the ballz & new compositions to play with to go ballz deep on Supers.
2ndly Fighters are easy enough to take out in various ways. You your self should know that MM has a good bomber wing (the only good thing they have) and 1 of the focus's especially after the patch is going to be to take out Fighters. Alot of alliances if they havn't already are making bomber wings. At least with 20 Fighters you have the numbers out there for a majority to survive and still be somewhat effective.

In the Original patch comments, when some clueless noobs posted about decreasing the drone bay, there wasn't any serious opposition to it. The reason for that is beacuse no1 thought that such stupid comments would be listened to by CCP so didn't think anything of it. Rediculious to think that it was changed & we are now trying to sort the mess out.
Thats what happens when you listen to people who have no idea of the mechanics in question, but only wish to pass biased opinions of how they can make a super as useless as possible to benifit there particular aspect of game play. Listen to the Super pilots, they deserve the benifit of the doubt as alot of us experience every aspect subcap/capital & supercapital alike.

A lion cub wouldn't learn to hunt & kill from a snail, the snail has no experience or knowledge involving those regards.
This analogy applys to Supers, why should those who have no experience or knowledge of mechanics in question have a resounding say over Super pilots. Doesn't make any sence!

Need room for 20 Fighter Bombers & 20 Fighters in drone bay CCP <-- plz read & plz do.



Signed


Signed







Signed.

Signed

from my account of this thread and the main announcement its plain to see ccp tallest have ignored what people have said, i have a hard time seeing any balance to this and the aim he has in mind will not only encourage more super to fleet together, but kill off any chance small alliance/corps have to develop their own fleets.

their has been several possible idea to come out that may have balance this far more then what have been implemented on sisi, give more evidence to the fact this thread is being largely ignored.
Icantspellwell
State Strategic Services
Templis Strategic Division
#532 - 2011-11-24 19:16:34 UTC
AnzacPaul wrote:
Waukesha wrote:
Roboticus420 wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
So I ask again, why do you need more than 15 fighters?



Nyx is the only super able to have 35,so your quote is narrow minded just in those regards,as you would be refering to the other supers as 10Fighters GTFO of here troll
1stly Supers will have optimal amount of fighters due to being intercepted by Subcaps, it happens often enough now, but after the patch alot more Subcap fleets will have the ballz & new compositions to play with to go ballz deep on Supers.
2ndly Fighters are easy enough to take out in various ways. You your self should know that MM has a good bomber wing (the only good thing they have) and 1 of the focus's especially after the patch is going to be to take out Fighters. Alot of alliances if they havn't already are making bomber wings. At least with 20 Fighters you have the numbers out there for a majority to survive and still be somewhat effective.

In the Original patch comments, when some clueless noobs posted about decreasing the drone bay, there wasn't any serious opposition to it. The reason for that is beacuse no1 thought that such stupid comments would be listened to by CCP so didn't think anything of it. Rediculious to think that it was changed & we are now trying to sort the mess out.
Thats what happens when you listen to people who have no idea of the mechanics in question, but only wish to pass biased opinions of how they can make a super as useless as possible to benifit there particular aspect of game play. Listen to the Super pilots, they deserve the benifit of the doubt as alot of us experience every aspect subcap/capital & supercapital alike.

A lion cub wouldn't learn to hunt & kill from a snail, the snail has no experience or knowledge involving those regards.
This analogy applys to Supers, why should those who have no experience or knowledge of mechanics in question have a resounding say over Super pilots. Doesn't make any sence!

Need room for 20 Fighter Bombers & 20 Fighters in drone bay CCP <-- plz read & plz do.



Signed


Signed







Signed.



Signed.

Absolutely no reason why a "supercarrier" shouldn't be able to hold a full set of fighters and fighterbombers.
Emmerik
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#533 - 2011-11-24 19:37:57 UTC
any news about the Shield Capital shield recharge thingy?
Jax Blake
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#534 - 2011-11-24 20:08:59 UTC
+1 for 20 and 20 for ALL supercapitals.

I'm not going to get into some endless debate like the others but I just want to know why the Supercarrier is the ONLY ship in the game that can now NOT reload their primary weapon system. EVERY other ship in the game can fully reload.

You can take the 20% hp, you can take out all the other drones, but please leave us room for 20 and 20.

Thanks
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#535 - 2011-11-24 20:14:31 UTC
just say no to 20/20 supers

bend over and take it quietly
Kerdrak
Querry Moon
#536 - 2011-11-24 20:19:32 UTC
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:
just say no to 20/20 supers

bend over and take it quietly


For any reason or just because you say it so?
Do you own a super to give proper feedback on why a supercarrier is overpowered if able to hold 20/20 fighters?

I mean, how overpowered can be if can have a SPARE flight of their ONLY offensive weapone (being a pure offensive ship BTW)
Jaigar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#537 - 2011-11-24 21:02:09 UTC
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:
just say no to 20/20 supers

bend over and take it quietly



Yup, I know supercarrier pilots don't like choosing between fighters for a sub-capital fleet or bombers for a capital fleet. Too much thinking and consideration.

And its laughable, after that CCP roam 2 days ago where PL hot dropped a bunch of titans & SCs on them, you think they're going to side with you?
Gol'dar
Dar Inc.
#538 - 2011-11-24 22:06:08 UTC
Jaigar wrote:
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:
just say no to 20/20 supers

bend over and take it quietly



Yup, I know supercarrier pilots don't like choosing between fighters for a sub-capital fleet or bombers for a capital fleet. Too much thinking and consideration.


ok, too short thinking for so much player, who doesn't fly caps. What means choosing between fighter and fighter bomber? Login a separatly needed carrierchar to refit your mom before a (possible) battle? And this alt must redock for reload more fighter or bomber (after this patch a carrier can carry only 20 per run)? And this alt must jump after his supercarrier to refit in space? For sake we can make the supercarrier' usage more uncomfortable.

20+20 (and this means no reserve!) is barely enough for a weapon system that can be eliminated.
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#539 - 2011-11-24 22:22:22 UTC
your english is horrible.

i do fly caps. i fly them in some of the harshest conditions EvE can generate.

your just a bad who spent 20+ bil and can't press engage target for maximum i win anymore.

memememememememememememememememememememe
Jaigar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#540 - 2011-11-25 01:06:02 UTC
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:
your english is horrible.

i do fly caps. i fly them in some of the harshest conditions EvE can generate.

your just a bad who spent 20+ bil and can't press engage target for maximum i win anymore.

memememememememememememememememememememe


I try not to rip on people for bad English, I know its not some people's first language. But I know Zarak, I know the conditions of W-Space Carriers; often you go with what you have: no backup, no cynos to pull more caps in. If the fight isn't in your home system, you can use only 1 carrier. You have to learn how to squeeze everything you can out of your carrier, and its not easy. Cap is a constant concern, and often fleets are small enough to where alpha can't punch through ships. This means the carrier is the centerpiece, and if that breaks, your fleet breaks. And during this whole fiasco you have to worry about your way back getting collapsed under your nose.

But yeah, I just don't see the same management required in combat for a SC: no triage commitment, eWAR immunity, etc.