These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#461 - 2014-01-14 23:38:51 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Congrats on ruining 50 guys' evening of ratting. Pass go, collect tears.

If its a big alliance's (is there any other kind of alliance?) home system then odds are you'll get a fight.



OK, now I KNOW you don't play this game.

50 people utilizing one system???

Home system used for ratting????

Just stop now...



Not every alliance in null rules a dozen regions, so set up an ESS in whatever system is used for ratting and either get a fight or force all the ratters to stop ratting until they get together to kill it.

If you suggest they will just move to another system I'll know that YOU don't play this game.

Now, post with your main and formulate an arguement other than "hurrr you don't play this game!" or stfu.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#462 - 2014-01-14 23:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Space Danger wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
Space Danger wrote:
Any nullsec alliance leaders with their heads screwed on will ban these things from being used in their space, "if you see one, kill it.".

Again CCP try to add more pointless glitter onto the (increasingly large) pile of legitimate problems with eve instead of fixing them.

Here's an idea, stop wasting man-hours on this deployable garbage and fix Pos mechanics.

Meaning that now to kill it you have to fight, on the terms the dropping gang set.
Ooh fun times.

Also depolyables are the fix to POS code.
Note that we now just need the industry and defensive mods and you have a POS again.
Well obviously if they tweak siphons to also pull from moons (please do this, I want the hilarity to ensue)


The concept of these creating fights won't work. As said before, with neuts/reds in local ratters won't generate isk and people who want rid of it will wait untill local is clear to do so. Increasing the amount of small gang PVP it will not.

This type of thinking MIGHT work in lowsec, but alliance held sov? nope.


Lul, nobody lives in lowsec!
If someone is, probably because they need their head scanned, ratting in lowsec, they're doing scannable combat sites, and most of their isk comes from faction and deadspace loot drops.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#463 - 2014-01-14 23:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Eram Fidard
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
set up an ESS in whatever system is used for ratting and either get a fight or force all the ratters to stop ratting until they get together to kill it.


Good gameplay mechanic you got there Roll

Isn't this what POS siphons were "supposed to do"?

In case you don't understand yet, even if this were a clever way to generate content (hint: it's not, I'll let you figure out why since your year of 0.0 living left you so informed on these matters) it's still only a single aggressive use of the module, and that's not good enough.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#464 - 2014-01-14 23:43:05 UTC

The ESS could be a great conflict driver:

1.) Increase its payout: If I'm risking 15%, I should have a least a 15% return! Ideally, I'd like this to drop bounties to 80%, but let it pay out 110-125%, making it very worthwhile to use.

2.) Increase the activation & drop times: Activation should take 3-5 minutes, and it should be 3-5 minutes before it drops the isk-tag! This allows the locals to form up and attempt to defend it. This is the MOST important step that needs to happen!

3.) Eliminate the pre-activation setup. Upon activation, you get 30 seconds to decide take bounties or share. If you don't make a selection within that time window, you must leave grid and come back to "activate it" again. This will eliminate the ability of noobship alts to sit on the ESS and click "share bounty" the moment a hostile enters system.

Guns'N'Ammo
The Dark Resistance
#465 - 2014-01-14 23:44:49 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Eram Fidard wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Congrats on ruining 50 guys' evening of ratting. Pass go, collect tears.

If its a big alliance's (is there any other kind of alliance?) home system then odds are you'll get a fight.



OK, now I KNOW you don't play this game.

50 people utilizing one system???

Home system used for ratting????

Just stop now...



Not every alliance in null rules a dozen regions, so set up an ESS in whatever system is used for ratting and either get a fight or force all the ratters to stop ratting until they get together to kill it.

If you suggest they will just move to another system I'll know that YOU don't play this game.

Now, post with your main and formulate an arguement other than "hurrr you don't play this game!" or stfu.


I use npc null.
Yes I will move to another system.
And arguments have been posted in previous pages as pointed out for you.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#466 - 2014-01-14 23:45:18 UTC
Garnoo wrote:
Fix Lag wrote:
I'd like a CCP statement on what they think of the whole situation. Clearly, the ESS is crap and they surely know that by now.

logs show nothing Big smile


I too would like a statement as this doesn't seem well thought out at all, for all of the reasons in this thread. It's more theme park than sandbox and highly contrived.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#467 - 2014-01-14 23:45:30 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
set up an ESS in whatever system is used for ratting and either get a fight or force all the ratters to stop ratting until they get together to kill it.


Good gameplay mechanic you got there Roll

Isn't this what POS siphons were "supposed to do"?


Alternatively, you could park a cloaked cyno ship in system and permanently prevent them ratting...
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#468 - 2014-01-14 23:48:29 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Eram Fidard wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
set up an ESS in whatever system is used for ratting and either get a fight or force all the ratters to stop ratting until they get together to kill it.


Good gameplay mechanic you got there Roll

Isn't this what POS siphons were "supposed to do"?


Alternatively, you could park a cloaked cyno ship in system and permanently prevent them ratting...


Help, there's a hostile fleet in my ratting system, and I would never try to fight such a fight except:

They put down this bounty siphon, so quick, everyone form up!

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#469 - 2014-01-14 23:53:11 UTC
Wyn Pharoh wrote:
MrBawkbagawk wrote:
oh look, a left handed nerf for drone space.


can we expect to see a set of faction items for rogue drones? no, of course not, that would be adding content. everything about drone space sucks compared to any other region including high sec and you make it even harder to earn a living?

who's friends are you, exactly?


There is nothing left handed about this nerf to Drones. I wrote about how the MTU was a left handed nerf to Drones, since without loot drops, the unit is mostly useless for ratting in Drones. Relative to anywhere else in Eve, adding the MTU has devalued an already resource poor area. This is a straight up nerf to Drone Regions, disproportional to how it will effect ratting in all other regions.

99.9% of ratting income in Drones comes off of bounties, with some few bothering to collect the fairly bad salvage. In any other region, 10-20% additional income can be pulled out of basic rat loot outside of bounties, with exceptional officer mods adding considerably greater proportionally to that value. This ESS will not negatively effect this 'bonus, harvestable' income, and there will be plenty living outside of Drones who will promptly say "No thanks, will just work just fine without one."

For all Drone Region inhabitants, this will just be a nerf. It will be straight up 5% off the top in an already difficult place to live, or it will be a massive headache to just break even, much less benefit from.

Will someone from CCP explain how to justify the DISPROPORTIONAL effect this will have on one particular sector of space? At the very least, explain why it is acceptable to continue introducing 'content' that is bad for the LAST 'new' K-space added to Eve? The Drone Regions at the absolute least must have loot tables reintroduced to balance the years of neglect and negative content development seen for pretty much all of the East of New Eden.


I think the fact that pirate detection arrays in the Drone Regions generate 10 or more top tier combat sites (drone horde) vs. pirate regions' 3 ([PIRATE TYPE] sanctum) at once will help ease you through this transition.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#470 - 2014-01-14 23:54:03 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Eram Fidard wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
set up an ESS in whatever system is used for ratting and either get a fight or force all the ratters to stop ratting until they get together to kill it.


Good gameplay mechanic you got there Roll

Isn't this what POS siphons were "supposed to do"?


Alternatively, you could park a cloaked cyno ship in system and permanently prevent them ratting...


Help, there's a hostile fleet in my ratting system, and I would never try to fight such a fight except:

They put down this bounty siphon, so quick, everyone form up!


In order for the siphon to be viable:

-- Ratters must think it is worthwhile to deploy it themselves.
-- The access & theft timers must be long enough for the locals to from up and defend it.

The current implementation satisfies neither of these, but with some tweaks and modifications it certainly could!
Mr R4nd0m
Doomheim
#471 - 2014-01-14 23:56:54 UTC
\ESS? what a pointless stupid idea. Why? Why was this even implemented, whats the reasoning behind this. I just dont understand why you have done this
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#472 - 2014-01-14 23:57:45 UTC
You realize that was the point right?
Release this THING and then have us the player weigh in on how to fix it.
In fact I bet they already have the "fixes" ready and are just waiting for enough people to speak before they implement after taking your feedback.
Like this post for it is true
Also because I want to hit 1000 likes by the end of the month
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#473 - 2014-01-14 23:58:33 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

The ESS could be a great conflict driver:

1.) Increase its payout: If I'm risking 15%, I should have a least a 15% return! Ideally, I'd like this to drop bounties to 80%, but let it pay out 110-125%, making it very worthwhile to use.

2.) Increase the activation & drop times: Activation should take 3-5 minutes, and it should be 3-5 minutes before it drops the isk-tag! This allows the locals to form up and attempt to defend it. This is the MOST important step that needs to happen!

3.) Eliminate the pre-activation setup. Upon activation, you get 30 seconds to decide take bounties or share. If you don't make a selection within that time window, you must leave grid and come back to "activate it" again. This will eliminate the ability of noobship alts to sit on the ESS and click "share bounty" the moment a hostile enters system.



This guy's offering solutions instead of whining, good for you.

I like the idea of increasing the reward, I like the idea of taking longer to redeem isk, force the theif to defend their intent to steal, Not sure about idea 3 though. It would interfere with fighting (activate or be shot out) and prevent camping, which a roaming gang would theoretically do to get a fight.

Guns'N'Ammo wrote:

I use npc null.
Yes I will move to another system.
And arguments have been posted in previous pages as pointed out for you.


If you moved systems there's a high chance of getting tackled on gate. Conflict created.

Nobody pointed out anything about my post existing anywhere previously in this thread.

Eram Fidard wrote:


Good gameplay mechanic you got there Roll

Isn't this what POS siphons were "supposed to do"?

In case you don't understand yet, even if this were a clever way to generate content (hint: it's not, I'll let you figure out why since your year of 0.0 living left you so informed on these matters) it's still only a single aggressive use of the module, and that's not good enough.



POS siphons don't give notifications, they are subterfuge devices to mess with AFK moon mining.
I realize there's no way to "force" conflict other than shutting off all POSs, offlining all cloaks, and shooting everyone out of the station.

So, what is your solution to either fix the ESS or offer a new alternative?

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


Alternatively, you could park a cloaked cyno ship in system and permanently prevent them ratting...


Don't people do that already? *cough* Cloaky campers.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#474 - 2014-01-15 00:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rekkr Nordgard
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
A lot of people seem to be missing the point of these.

1) There is NOTHING mandating you put these up! You can simply sacrifice 5% of your income. Ohnoes!!! Now you're making 57m/hour not 60m/hour! The end is nigh, unsubscribe!

2) Have a cloaky alt camp the ESS if you put one up. When an inty comes to try to steal your hard earned cash, kill it! It takes 40 seconds to redeem the tags from the ESS, so you have PLENTY of time to chase off or kill a stationary (or at least super low transversal) inty!

3) ITS A CONFLICT DRIVER! QUIT WHINING!!! Now when you're out roaming drop one of these things and the local carebears can't rat away in anoms until they kill it! If they run anoms you can just steal 20% of their income. If they try to kill it, CONGRATULATIONS, YOU JUST GOT A FIGHT. Additionally, the automatic defensive bubble prevents kiting gangs from coming in at 100km, they start out at 15km away, just like on a gate, giving you a chance to catch something.

I wish we had these in nullsec when I lived there, a three hour roam would end with only killing a cyno-noobship and a whole lot **** talk in local.



So your argument is that deployables, which will never be used except by roaming gangs, will provoke fights from PvEers even when said deployables will have zero negative effect on those PvEers since they won't be ratting while reds/neuts are in the system and the deployable can be easily destroyed as soon as the reds/neuts leave? Yeah, you have an extremely appropriate alliance name.
DeDes
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#475 - 2014-01-15 00:05:55 UTC
These are a stupid idea. I'd rather take the 5% loss to bounties and know I'm getting all the isk versus installing an ESS for the extra 10% I might get. I expect these to be KOS in most sov regions in 0.0 and same for the person who drops them.
Wyn Pharoh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#476 - 2014-01-15 00:06:08 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
[quote=Eram Fidard][quote=M1k3y Koontz]


Not every alliance in null rules a dozen regions, so set up an ESS in whatever system is used for ratting and either get a fight or force all the ratters to stop ratting until they get together to kill it.

If you suggest they will just move to another system I'll know that YOU don't play this game.

Now, post with your main and formulate an arguement other than "hurrr you don't play this game!" or stfu.


The perception that this will be a new conflict driver is horribly flawed. As others have pointed out, unless you are currently killing the 'bad' that didn't pay attention to local or intel, no one will be ratting in any system your w-hole corp holes into. The nullbears will in fact pos or station up until you are gone, and no 30mil isk deployable that nerfs their income will matter in the least, because they will just stop earning said income until you have left.

Certainly there can be home defense fleets, and some may even shoot the deployable, but this won't be much different than the current mechanics to living in null, just 5% isk lighter for the mainline grunts and newbros that needed a little pve to afford the inconveniences of nullsec life. You are just as likely getting fights shooting/dropping sov structures, since anyone with common sense will wait for 'system clear' to blap any hostile EES.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#477 - 2014-01-15 00:06:10 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
So why shouldn't the ESS be available in lowsec? Some issues with faction warfare?


If that's the case make it usable in non-faction warfare lowsec.

While you are at it make faction warfare sites not enterable with a stab on your ship.


It is possible we do ESS variations with different placement restrictions sometimes in the future. But the null sec version is the only one for 1.1

I can't help but ask; why wait? Why not introduce the other variations at the same time? Is this a baby step thing or figuring out how to balance the low and high sec versions?
Wyn Pharoh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#478 - 2014-01-15 00:10:03 UTC
Querns wrote:
Wyn Pharoh wrote:
MrBawkbagawk wrote:
oh look, a left handed nerf for drone space.


can we expect to see a set of faction items for rogue drones? no, of course not, that would be adding content. everything about drone space sucks compared to any other region including high sec and you make it even harder to earn a living?

who's friends are you, exactly?


There is nothing left handed about this nerf to Drones. I wrote about how the MTU was a left handed nerf to Drones, since without loot drops, the unit is mostly useless for ratting in Drones. Relative to anywhere else in Eve, adding the MTU has devalued an already resource poor area. This is a straight up nerf to Drone Regions, disproportional to how it will effect ratting in all other regions.

99.9% of ratting income in Drones comes off of bounties, with some few bothering to collect the fairly bad salvage. In any other region, 10-20% additional income can be pulled out of basic rat loot outside of bounties, with exceptional officer mods adding considerably greater proportionally to that value. This ESS will not negatively effect this 'bonus, harvestable' income, and there will be plenty living outside of Drones who will promptly say "No thanks, will just work just fine without one."

For all Drone Region inhabitants, this will just be a nerf. It will be straight up 5% off the top in an already difficult place to live, or it will be a massive headache to just break even, much less benefit from.

Will someone from CCP explain how to justify the DISPROPORTIONAL effect this will have on one particular sector of space? At the very least, explain why it is acceptable to continue introducing 'content' that is bad for the LAST 'new' K-space added to Eve? The Drone Regions at the absolute least must have loot tables reintroduced to balance the years of neglect and negative content development seen for pretty much all of the East of New Eden.


I think the fact that pirate detection arrays in the Drone Regions generate 10 or more top tier combat sites (drone horde) vs. pirate regions' 3 ([PIRATE TYPE] sanctum) at once will help ease you through this transition.


All of which are crap in relative value to the potential of your top tier combat sites. Its not like you don't have plenty of space to improve. What is your point really? Drone inhabitants can cram more bears into one system than you can before we have to improve/upgrade sov???
EdFromHumanResources
State War Academy
Caldari State
#479 - 2014-01-15 00:10:55 UTC
When I think 0.0 ratting I think "Man this stuff needs to be more **** than it presently is". Thanks CCP for coming through and putting the final nail in that coffin. I look forward to people finding new and more inventive ways of making isk.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#480 - 2014-01-15 00:13:55 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

So, what is your solution to either fix the ESS or offer a new alternative?


Burn it with fire, and seriously consider the future employment of members of "team superfriends". I thought I made that pretty clear in my first post. But you're not one for reading, I know...

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.