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[Rubicon 1.1] Mobile Micro Jump Unit and Mobile Scan Inhibitor

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Author
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#281 - 2014-01-07 11:41:55 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Mobile Scan Inhibitor

This is the structure that caused the biggest buzz from the recent round of Chaos observation, time for some details that I think will significantly change how you all see it.

This structure prevents anything inside its 30km radius from appearing on either DScan or Probe Scans. The Scan Inhibitor structure itself however does show up on both types of scan and is very easy to probe down. So you can prevent people from knowing what is inside it but you can't prevent people from knowing that something is there.

Players inside the radius of the structure will be able to scan as normal, except that they won't get scan results from anything that's right beside them inside the radius.

Another single use structure, no rescooping.
Current stats are 60s activation time, 2h lifetime, 45k ehp (once again mostly structure), 50m3 volume and a build cost of ~5m isk.
Like I said above, it has an effective radius of 30km, meaning that even if you're at the edge, someone warping to 0 on it can still catch you fairly easily, especially with inties.
Can't be deployed within 75km of gates or stations, or within 40km of control towers. Can't be deployed within 40km of another scan inhibitor so you can overlap them but you can never use one to mask the central structure of another.


This is massively broken if the radius is bigger than 15km (30km diameter), and the build cost needs to be that of like a t2 medium bubble or a t1 large bubble.

With a 30km radius you can hide capfleets and super fleets.


Local spikes massively. You scan down inhibitor. You now know exactly where they are. This is not rocket science.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#282 - 2014-01-07 12:13:16 UTC
I am disposable wrote:
Powers Sa wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Mobile Scan Inhibitor

This is the structure that caused the biggest buzz from the recent round of Chaos observation, time for some details that I think will significantly change how you all see it.

This structure prevents anything inside its 30km radius from appearing on either DScan or Probe Scans. The Scan Inhibitor structure itself however does show up on both types of scan and is very easy to probe down. So you can prevent people from knowing what is inside it but you can't prevent people from knowing that something is there.

Players inside the radius of the structure will be able to scan as normal, except that they won't get scan results from anything that's right beside them inside the radius.

Another single use structure, no rescooping.
Current stats are 60s activation time, 2h lifetime, 45k ehp (once again mostly structure), 50m3 volume and a build cost of ~5m isk.
Like I said above, it has an effective radius of 30km, meaning that even if you're at the edge, someone warping to 0 on it can still catch you fairly easily, especially with inties.
Can't be deployed within 75km of gates or stations, or within 40km of control towers. Can't be deployed within 40km of another scan inhibitor so you can overlap them but you can never use one to mask the central structure of another.


This is massively broken if the radius is bigger than 15km (30km diameter), and the build cost needs to be that of like a t2 medium bubble or a t1 large bubble.

With a 30km radius you can hide capfleets and super fleets.


Local spikes massively. You scan down inhibitor. You now know exactly where they are. This is not rocket science.


oo yeah because people will not deploy 20 of them in local when they are inside a single one of them .

Do not underestimate people. most have IQ above 40.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#283 - 2014-01-07 12:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Mobile Micro Jump Unit

This baby does pretty much exactly what the name implies. When active, any player within range can use it to launch their ship 100km in the direction that the ship is travelling when it makes use of the structure. It has no cooldown or limit to how many ships can use it at once, but it does have a spoolup time just like the MJD module. This spoolup duration is not modified by skills and on the base structure it is 12s (just like the MJD module would be if you could use it without skills).

The actual Micro Jump effect works exactly the same as the effect from the module. So during the cycle you go full throttle in one direction with a sig radius penalty, it can't be cancelled, scrams prevent you from jumping, it preserves speed on landing, all that jazz. You only have to be within range of the structure at the start of the micro jump cycle, not at the end. If the structure is destroyed during your spoolup time, you do not get launched. Since the MJU has no cooldown, a player can start the jump cycle from a Micro Jump module or MJU immediately after finishing a previous jump facilitated by a different MJU.

There will be mass restrictions to prevent caps and supercaps from using it, but everything else is fair game. We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked. Like I mentioned above, it is usable by everyone and is not restricted to the owner or their corp/fleet. This means you can feel free to use it to try and escape, but your assailant is also free to use it to follow you.

Like the Cynosaural Inhibitor and the Siphon Unit, the MJU is a single use structure. Once dropped it can never be scooped and will stay in space until it either gets blown up or finishes its lifetime.

Right now we have the base version set to 20s module activation time, 48hr lifetime, 25k ehp (mostly structure), 50m3 volume and a build cost of about 1m isk.
Micro Jump spoolup is 12s like an unskilled MJD.
Current activation range is 2500m but we're already leaning towards expanding that.
It can't be placed within 20km of gates or stations, within 40km of a starbase tower or within 6km of another MJU.

Please note that the version on SISI at the time of this post has a few known defects, including the lack of a visual model in space and the lack of a working mass restriction.


As someone who loves solo PVP, this thing is going to be a kick in the teeth. Again.

20 seconds to go through 25k EHP is 1,250 DPS. So unless you have a scrambler or capable of applying 1,250 DPS to this thing, or are capable of killing them within 32 seconds, you're not going to kill a ratter. ANY ratter. And they don't even need to take up a mid slot to do it!

And no, following them using their own deployable won't work, as if they're aligned out just before they jumped, they're aligned out after they jump, and they can just warp off.

Seriously, what the hell!? This is a horrible idea, and just makes hunting and killing people harder than it's ever been. To the point of lunacy.


This thing needs limits. How about when you use the deployable version of the Micro Jump Drive, it doesn't carry momentum, so you arrive sitting at 0m/s speed. That way it isn't quite so much a 'Get out of jail free card'.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#284 - 2014-01-07 12:19:24 UTC
Shade Millith wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Mobile Micro Jump Unit

This baby does pretty much exactly what the name implies. When active, any player within range can use it to launch their ship 100km in the direction that the ship is travelling when it makes use of the structure. It has no cooldown or limit to how many ships can use it at once, but it does have a spoolup time just like the MJD module. This spoolup duration is not modified by skills and on the base structure it is 12s (just like the MJD module would be if you could use it without skills).

The actual Micro Jump effect works exactly the same as the effect from the module. So during the cycle you go full throttle in one direction with a sig radius penalty, it can't be cancelled, scrams prevent you from jumping, it preserves speed on landing, all that jazz. You only have to be within range of the structure at the start of the micro jump cycle, not at the end. If the structure is destroyed during your spoolup time, you do not get launched. Since the MJU has no cooldown, a player can start the jump cycle from a Micro Jump module or MJU immediately after finishing a previous jump facilitated by a different MJU.

There will be mass restrictions to prevent caps and supercaps from using it, but everything else is fair game. We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked. Like I mentioned above, it is usable by everyone and is not restricted to the owner or their corp/fleet. This means you can feel free to use it to try and escape, but your assailant is also free to use it to follow you.

Like the Cynosaural Inhibitor and the Siphon Unit, the MJU is a single use structure. Once dropped it can never be scooped and will stay in space until it either gets blown up or finishes its lifetime.

Right now we have the base version set to 20s module activation time, 48hr lifetime, 25k ehp (mostly structure), 50m3 volume and a build cost of about 1m isk.
Micro Jump spoolup is 12s like an unskilled MJD.
Current activation range is 2500m but we're already leaning towards expanding that.
It can't be placed within 20km of gates or stations, within 40km of a starbase tower or within 6km of another MJU.

Please note that the version on SISI at the time of this post has a few known defects, including the lack of a visual model in space and the lack of a working mass restriction.


As someone who loves solo PVP, this thing is going to be a kick in the teeth. Again.

20 seconds to go through 25k EHP is 1,250 DPS. So unless you have a scrambler or capable of applying 1,250 DPS to this thing, or are capable of killing them within 32 seconds, you're not going to kill a ratter. ANY ratter. And they don't even need to take up a mid slot to do it!

Seriously, what the hell!? This is a horrible idea, and just makes hunting and killing people harder than it's ever been. To the point of lunacy.




yes, as i said. CCp game designers need to play more on several types of activities, because they are clearly overlookign several play styles.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#285 - 2014-01-07 12:28:15 UTC  |  Edited by: MisterAl tt1
Catherine Laartii wrote:
One of the common themes I'm seeing in this thread is about how bad this is going to be for w-space. I would like to reiterate the factoid that wormhole space, since its inception, was intended to be completely unscripted; the devs simply created it, and left it open to the players without any themes or instructions for how to do it. So it makes it harder to find pve cap fleets in them? Good! That means there's more ways for people to not only secure their home turf, just as it should be; the current system of pvp in w-space needs more ways for players to defend themselves, since it literally is the last frontier in this game; the more tools to defend your homestead, the better.
.

People are already leaving wormholes for the lack of pew-pew, many systems taken by carebearing alts who care of nothing but farm. They don't give a damn about "defending", what they need is TIME to escape the site when a new sig pops-up. And this is exactly what this module gives.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
I am impressed how people think the AOE cloak is the overpowered one. ITs power is nothing and illusory as long as local exist (because you know the location still).

What about places it does not exist?


So many people posting these ideas are idiotic. Guess will they hear us? I doubt.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2014-01-07 12:43:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
One of the common themes I'm seeing in this thread is about how bad this is going to be for w-space. I would like to reiterate the factoid that wormhole space, since its inception, was intended to be completely unscripted; the devs simply created it, and left it open to the players without any themes or instructions for how to do it. So it makes it harder to find pve cap fleets in them? Good! That means there's more ways for people to not only secure their home turf, just as it should be; the current system of pvp in w-space needs more ways for players to defend themselves, since it literally is the last frontier in this game; the more tools to defend your homestead, the better.
.

People are already leaving wormholes for the lack of pew-pew, many systems taken by carebearing alts who care of nothing but farm. They don't give a damn about "defending", what they need is TIME to escape the site when a new sig pops-up. And this is exactly what this module gives.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
I am impressed how people think the AOE cloak is the overpowered one. ITs power is nothing and illusory as long as local exist (because you know the location still).

What about places it does not exist?


So many people posting these ideas are idiotic. Guess will they hear us? I doubt.


Yes i know the level of power is different in wormhole space. But a lot of the alarm came from other people. Just tryign to point that the other structure is far more capable of giving the free from jail ticket than the mobile cloak unit. It does not matter if someoen can find you if you are harder to tackle than a mothership

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#287 - 2014-01-07 12:43:38 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
yes, as i said. CCp game designers need to play more on several types of activities, because they are clearly overlookign several play styles.

Or maybe they really want people to fly with scrams...
Oxide Ammar
#288 - 2014-01-07 12:47:50 UTC
If you add the MSI to the previous CCP statement regarding tackling the local channel and how it's very powerful tool for Intel, so most likely they will remove it or drastically change it as result you will be converting the whole K-space to big giant W space filled with booby traps called MSI.

Anyway I'm ok with these new features, it opens more ways and methods to play the game, only nullsec alliances and grievers are shedding tears over these.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#289 - 2014-01-07 12:50:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
yes, as i said. CCp game designers need to play more on several types of activities, because they are clearly overlookign several play styles.

Or maybe they really want people to fly with scrams...



We do, but means its impossible to catch someone that has moved anything inside the mission. Jus tmove 40 km in the mission and you are 100% safe...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#290 - 2014-01-07 13:10:04 UTC
What happens if someone deploys a drag bubble inside the D-Scan inhibitor? Will it drag people warping to the inhibitor into the bubble? If so, it seems the only way to get "eyes on grid" without ending up inside the bubble and whatever camp is set up there is with an inty or nullified T3. This seems excessively limiting to me. Or have I missed something?

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?

Kane Fenris
NWP
#291 - 2014-01-07 13:15:10 UTC
Shade Millith wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Mobile Micro Jump Unit

This baby does pretty much exactly what the name implies. When active, any player within range can use it to launch their ship 100km in the direction that the ship is travelling when it makes use of the structure. It has no cooldown or limit to how many ships can use it at once, but it does have a spoolup time just like the MJD module. This spoolup duration is not modified by skills and on the base structure it is 12s (just like the MJD module would be if you could use it without skills).

The actual Micro Jump effect works exactly the same as the effect from the module. So during the cycle you go full throttle in one direction with a sig radius penalty, it can't be cancelled, scrams prevent you from jumping, it preserves speed on landing, all that jazz. You only have to be within range of the structure at the start of the micro jump cycle, not at the end. If the structure is destroyed during your spoolup time, you do not get launched. Since the MJU has no cooldown, a player can start the jump cycle from a Micro Jump module or MJU immediately after finishing a previous jump facilitated by a different MJU.

There will be mass restrictions to prevent caps and supercaps from using it, but everything else is fair game. We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked. Like I mentioned above, it is usable by everyone and is not restricted to the owner or their corp/fleet. This means you can feel free to use it to try and escape, but your assailant is also free to use it to follow you.

Like the Cynosaural Inhibitor and the Siphon Unit, the MJU is a single use structure. Once dropped it can never be scooped and will stay in space until it either gets blown up or finishes its lifetime.

Right now we have the base version set to 20s module activation time, 48hr lifetime, 25k ehp (mostly structure), 50m3 volume and a build cost of about 1m isk.
Micro Jump spoolup is 12s like an unskilled MJD.
Current activation range is 2500m but we're already leaning towards expanding that.
It can't be placed within 20km of gates or stations, within 40km of a starbase tower or within 6km of another MJU.

Please note that the version on SISI at the time of this post has a few known defects, including the lack of a visual model in space and the lack of a working mass restriction.


As someone who loves solo PVP, this thing is going to be a kick in the teeth. Again.

20 seconds to go through 25k EHP is 1,250 DPS. So unless you have a scrambler or capable of applying 1,250 DPS to this thing, or are capable of killing them within 32 seconds, you're not going to kill a ratter. ANY ratter. And they don't even need to take up a mid slot to do it!

And no, following them using their own deployable won't work, as if they're aligned out just before they jumped, they're aligned out after they jump, and they can just warp off.

Seriously, what the hell!? This is a horrible idea, and just makes hunting and killing people harder than it's ever been. To the point of lunacy.



THIS is exactly what i think....

maybe a solution would be make it take some time to anchor (about the time average ship needs to lock it) and give it about 1kehp so it would be limited to offensive use only (jump someone or reposition outside the enemys weapon range).
Luscius Uta
#292 - 2014-01-07 13:19:58 UTC
In its current form, MMJD will propel even a sieged Dread. Knowing Fozzie, I can't say if that's a bug or he's just trolling us Evil

Also, just like salvage drones and depots, both new structures aren't showing on the default "All" overview profile.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#293 - 2014-01-07 13:20:15 UTC
Debir Achen wrote:
What happens if someone deploys a drag bubble inside the D-Scan inhibitor? Will it drag people warping to the inhibitor into the bubble? If so, it seems the only way to get "eyes on grid" without ending up inside the bubble and whatever camp is set up there is with an inty or nullified T3. This seems excessively limiting to me. Or have I missed something?



No you have not, that is exactly how it will work.
Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#294 - 2014-01-07 13:21:34 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
In its current form, MMJD will propel even a sieged Dread. Knowing Fozzie, I can't say if that's a bug or he's just trolling us Evil

Also, just like salvage drones and depots, both new structures aren't showing on the default "All" overview profile.



Caps can't use it, so Dreads shouldn't be able to. Unless this is coming from experience on the test server in which case it is probably a bug.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#295 - 2014-01-07 13:27:47 UTC
I approve of these modules.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#296 - 2014-01-07 13:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: MisterAl tt1
oO

One of my guys just tested MSI. This thing can be ECCMed! As a result a t2 fitted cov-op, not-perfect skills, no implants, got a 82.3% signal at 0.5 AU probe radius. Needed manual probe-moving to scan it down.

Have fun seeking for capitals under it!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#297 - 2014-01-07 13:34:28 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
oO

One of my guys just tested MSI. This thing can be ECCMed! As a result a t2 fitted cov-op, not-perfect skills, no implants, got a 82.3% signal at 0.5 AU probe radius. Needed manual probe-moving to scan it down.

Have fun seeking for capitals under it!



There goes the neighborhood!!

Eve online! Now safer than hello kiti online adventures!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#298 - 2014-01-07 13:36:52 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
If you add the MSI to the previous CCP statement regarding tackling the local channel and how it's very powerful tool for Intel, so most likely they will remove it or drastically change it as result you will be converting the whole K-space to big giant W space filled with booby traps called MSI.

Anyway I'm ok with these new features, it opens more ways and methods to play the game, only nullsec alliances and grievers are shedding tears over these.


Or anybody whole does Solo/Smallgang, people in FW, people in WHs...


Actually the only people who I don't see complaining about this is ratters...



Quite honestly the MSI is an insult to anybody who has learned how to Dscan, turning a skill based mechanic (which was already dumbed down by the Odyssey scanner) into a luck based one
Rufus Mc'owen
Deliverance.
Arrival.
#299 - 2014-01-07 13:45:36 UTC
About "Mobile Scan Inhibitor" i see this coming:

A large group of carebear in their system gonna just put as much as possible MSI in their system (Belt, Random safe in space) to discourage pirate from search them you gonna just help those who make pve all the time and reduce the interaction beetween player even more.

The ONLY way to prevent sutch behaviour is to make the MSI expensive enough (50M / 150M)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#300 - 2014-01-07 13:55:11 UTC
Rufus Mc'owen wrote:
About "Mobile Scan Inhibitor" i see this coming:

A large group of carebear in their system gonna just put as much as possible MSI in their system (Belt, Random safe in space) to discourage pirate from search them you gonna just help those who make pve all the time and reduce the interaction beetween player even more.

The ONLY way to prevent sutch behaviour is to make the MSI expensive enough (50M / 150M)



10M would be enough since they exist for 2 hours max.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"