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CSM meets CCP Senior Producer Zulu about your concerns

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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#161 - 2011-09-10 06:42:52 UTC
kenxi wrote:
So this NDA you all signed whats the penalty for breaking it?



Looks nice on your resume you think not?
Especially since their real names are attached to their CSM characters. Sure think their future bosses don't know how to google (dig up the name Ankhesentapemkah) ey?

Lol at the forums cannot even put a google link here, lmao
cyllan anassan
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#162 - 2011-09-10 06:46:55 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Vicar2008 wrote:
No offense I like where this is going, but its just another bone being thrown to us without actually anything concrete being said. Check out the last Dev blogs, plenty of words, no real Comming up content with changes/number crunching etc.


It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.




i never met a company that cant talk about improvements in their product.

if anything when a company is improving the product they broadcast it to the seven winds.


NDA? what is CCP doing,

patenting a new lifeform?


what a load of BS
Dusty Warrior
Doomheim
#163 - 2011-09-10 06:55:26 UTC
I was going to make a really long and wordy post. Drank another beer and thought better of it.

I've said some dumb stuff on the forums. I apologize for some, not all.

Everything I want for EVE has already been posted by hundreds of other concerned players.

So... guess I'll quote: "These are moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say".

I suppose I'll do somewhat the same. Guess it's a waiting game for now.

Good luck everyone, let us hope that CCP will anew their relationship with EVE and give her the loving she so deserves.


Keeping in line with the OP

Posting that you had a meeting with CCP but the content of that meeting won't be disclosed because of the NDA is like... I don't know. Holding a three scoop ice cream cone just far enough from a fat kid that he can't reach it.

CruelBlink
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#164 - 2011-09-10 07:01:42 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
like even the meeting occurred


I think it occurred, and threats of legal action / bannings were liberally handed out and they were told to me good little lapdogs again or **** would get real an the one ex lawyer would get to meet the CCP legal team

oh yeah what kind of lawyer is he I wanted to ask that the first time I heard he was one. Cause if he's anything other than international/icelandic corporate law, Im pretty sure he's in over his head here

Hotaru Yamato wrote:
I trust the CSM will represent the eve players' views to the best to their ability.


epic troll


Thanks for your analysis, O mighty internet lawyer. Can you tell me exactly what law you think the CSMs might be faced with charges under? "A first degree charge of Saying Mean Things That Are Provably True"? So far as I know, none of them live in Iceland, so they'd have to be extradited to face any charges.

As for banning? Yeah that'd work well, real smart tactics. I can tell you've read your Machiavelli. Even apart from the tsunami of horrible PR that would generate, even apart from the massive shitstorm that would immediately occur within the playerbase, what do you think the reaction of the banned CSMs might be? Might there be some retaliation that they could take, do you think?


"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Flynn Fetladral
Tempered Aggression
Seker Matar
#165 - 2011-09-10 07:31:09 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
I bow to your superiority mittens!

and the rest of the point i mentioned?


The rest, frankly, I agree with. There is no 'red meat' from the CSM yet because the expansions we've got our handprints all over come in Winter. So there's not much utility we can demonstrate to the playerbase yet in terms of raw gameplay changes, because the Incarna stuff was already in development/heavy production before we took office, and is still sort of looming over us like a bad hangover. Sure, there's devblogs about TiDi and commitments from CCP about 'no gold ammo', but codewise all we've got thus far is the removal of the ship change session timer.

If things are implemented as planned at the moment, by the CSM7 election no one sensible will doubt the power or scope of the CSM. However, right now, before the next expansion, it's just pretty words.



'Now witness the full POWER of this fully operational CSM6'

Oh and we used a little officer mods. KIDDING! We used a lot of officers mods, A LOT! Because we don’t :censored: around in low-sec.

@flynnfetladral on #tweetfleet
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#166 - 2011-09-10 07:37:45 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.

Stay tuned...

Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6



It is going to be hard to remain tuned to something which we can't access.

"Keep listening, but I'm saying nothing"

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
cyllan anassan
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2011-09-10 07:42:01 UTC
Dex Ironmind wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Dead Horse is one of those proposals that cuts across every corner of EVE, because everyone who has ever had to deal with one knows that POSes are utterly miserable.


That is the stuff I would like to see the CSM push for in EXPANSIONS - stuff "that cuts across every corner of EVE."

The rebalancing/nerfing/patching/fixing issues need to be reserved for in-between expansion actions.

I would really like to see the CSM press for some immediate patching/balancing implementations, freeing up the winter expansion for something that benefits all of EVE and does not mainly focus on NULL. Frankly, all of the sandbox is hungry for new toys to play with in the sandbox!!! Don't let the winter expansion be just you about the NULL boys and girls.

If null requires an entire expansion, as does low, let it come later. This next expansion needs to be a broad reaching expansion to score some points with their entire player base.

Dex was here. Cool




"The rebalancing/nerfing/patching/fixing issues need to be reserved for in-between expansion actions. "


on the last 2 years that has been the expansions........., plus PI (click-click-click, and repeat)
T'Laar Bok
#168 - 2011-09-10 07:44:38 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
Stay tuned...



Soooo......... another 3 months?

Amphetimines are your friend.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/T'Laar_Bok
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#169 - 2011-09-10 07:48:16 UTC
Flynn Fetladral wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
I bow to your superiority mittens!

and the rest of the point i mentioned?


The rest, frankly, I agree with. There is no 'red meat' from the CSM yet because the expansions we've got our handprints all over come in Winter. So there's not much utility we can demonstrate to the playerbase yet in terms of raw gameplay changes, because the Incarna stuff was already in development/heavy production before we took office, and is still sort of looming over us like a bad hangover. Sure, there's devblogs about TiDi and commitments from CCP about 'no gold ammo', but codewise all we've got thus far is the removal of the ship change session timer.

If things are implemented as planned at the moment, by the CSM7 election no one sensible will doubt the power or scope of the CSM. However, right now, before the next expansion, it's just pretty words.



'Now witness the full POWER of this fully operational CSM6'


haha that's how it read to me too.
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2011-09-10 07:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow
Flynn Fetladral wrote:
'Now witness the full POWER of this fully operational CSM6'


"These aren't the Devs you're looking for..."

Seriously, you gave me my first chuckle of the day, thanks!

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#171 - 2011-09-10 08:44:21 UTC
The Mittani wrote:


If things are implemented as planned at the moment, by the CSM7 election no one sensible will doubt the power or scope of the CSM. However, right now, before the next expansion, it's just pretty words.


Eh. It boils down to the individuals elected too, do they dare to confront CCP and would they dedicate themselves to bitchslap CCP when CCP isn't staying in the kitchen or are they just in for the free trips to Iceland?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#172 - 2011-09-10 10:01:03 UTC
Why is it that everyone always hides behind the "NDA, can't discuss" excuse?

These are lame attempts at PR and damage control by CCP. There is nothing else to say about it. It has been said multiple times that so long as the NDA remains in full effect with regards to this whole debacle, no one is going to believe them. I have given a lot of thought to this, and while I agree that CCP is taking this game in the wrong direction, I can't help but feel that this entire charade by the CSM is a troll.

We know Mittens is a lawyer. If he was as good a lawyer as he was a shitpoaster, he would have found legal loopholes in the NDA, because no one is going to realize everything. There will always be at least one loophole. And if Mittens doesn't have a copy of it, then he is arguably the worst lawyer I think I've heard of in quite some time. I bet I could find loopholes, provided a copy of the NDA, and I'm not even a law student! My intent is to be a criminal defense attorney specializing in Constitutional issues, not a contract attorney!

Every time I see one of the CSM put out a new thread saying, "Hey, we've talked to CCP about this stuff!", it's all a pathetic attempt to try to win votes with the upcoming CSM elections. They are all vague threads created to appease a small portion of the populace who are too stupid to realize what's going on. Yes, I mean that. And I'm looking at Goons mainly, as well as every null-sec bloc blindly supporting their little body politic.

There has been nothing to hint at anything we care about being brought up to the devs. There are no specifics, there are no bulletpoints. There is nothing. We already know the CSM is a sham and a joke. CCP doesn't care, you don't care.

Why should we?

You want to prove you're on our side, then tell CCP to f*** off on the NDA just once. If the entire CSM says, "You know what? The NDA is good, but transparency was promised, and you owe the players that much", what is CCP going to do? Fire you all? You don't work for them. Are they going to kick you off the CSM? If you truly want to help, then let your balls drop - all of you and put your money where your mouth is. All we see if pussyfooting around the subjects with vague insinuations and non-specific threads. It gets old.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#173 - 2011-09-10 10:17:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
I will return in 3 months to read it when the report has been censored and delayed before finally be released, when its not even important anymore. It seems to be the SOP when it comes to these types of things. Also these meeting seems extremely useless from a players standpoint since anything useful is blocked by the NDA. I mean I understand why they have it and why the CSM follow it, but at times there has to be a little give when it comes to releasing information regarding possible updates/content.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
J Kunjeh
#174 - 2011-09-10 10:30:16 UTC
Azelor Delaria wrote:

You want to prove you're on our side, then tell CCP to f*** off on the NDA just once. If the entire CSM says, "You know what? The NDA is good, but transparency was promised, and you owe the players that much", what is CCP going to do? Fire you all? You don't work for them. Are they going to kick you off the CSM? If you truly want to help, then let your balls drop - all of you and put your money where your mouth is. All we see if pussyfooting around the subjects with vague insinuations and non-specific threads. It gets old.


You're totally clueless about the real world, obviously, so I'll help you out: NDA's have LEGAL standing and those who break them can be sued in court. So yeah, NONE of them are likely to break NDA and for damn good reason.

Fool...

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Blue Harrier
#175 - 2011-09-10 10:42:48 UTC
Why in heck does a GAME need a frigging NDA anyway, it’s not like they have any competition or they are developing a new bomb, drug, or something?

Are CCP worried WOW will copy what they do, will some new kid on the block nick all their ideas, or are they more worried if the real news got out so many subscribers would drop their subscription the game would go bust overnight.

I get the feeling the upper echelons of CCP are so wound up in ‘their’ idea of what the game ‘should’ be they have no real idea of what the game actually ‘is’.

WIS as it has been implemented so far is the dumbest, dumb upgrade this game has had forced on it since I have been playing. Will the winter expansion save it, unlikely unless CCP go back to its roots and really put FIS back on the map?

"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#176 - 2011-09-10 10:46:03 UTC
Dear CSM,

If you have nothing to say then don't say anything.

I like you guys so not reported for spam/trolling. Bear

*Hugs*
Sigras
Conglomo
#177 - 2011-09-10 10:55:36 UTC
THIS game needs an NDA because of the competitive nature of it. IE if I knew they were definitely going to remove ice from high sec tomorrow, guess what i'd be buying today?

Honestly Im going to reserve my judgement for when the next expansion comes out, and thats really all everyone should do. Trust when the CSM says stuff is happening and see what comes out of it.

Really what else are you going to do? get pissed off because you think theyre lieing to you? What The Mittani said is right, we havent seen any major content since these talks began so we have no basis for saying whether or not CCP is actually implementing any of these things.
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#178 - 2011-09-10 10:57:01 UTC
J Kunjeh wrote:
Azelor Delaria wrote:

You want to prove you're on our side, then tell CCP to f*** off on the NDA just once. If the entire CSM says, "You know what? The NDA is good, but transparency was promised, and you owe the players that much", what is CCP going to do? Fire you all? You don't work for them. Are they going to kick you off the CSM? If you truly want to help, then let your balls drop - all of you and put your money where your mouth is. All we see if pussyfooting around the subjects with vague insinuations and non-specific threads. It gets old.


You're totally clueless about the real world, obviously, so I'll help you out: NDA's have LEGAL standing and those who break them can be sued in court. So yeah, NONE of them are likely to break NDA and for damn good reason.

Fool...


Non-Disclosure Agreements have legal standing if, and only if, the information obtained and disseminated produces actual harm. In essence, unless trade secrets are leaked, the NDA isn't violated. A CSM coming out and saying, "Look, we talked about X with CCP, Zulu agrees, he's bringing it to the bosses" isn't a violation of trade secrets. At least I hope it isn't.

I mean, is making the game better to keep subscriptions a trade secret, now...?
Fluffy Muff
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2011-09-10 11:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffy Muff
So... is it 18 months yet?

I'm sure the results of these meetings will be lots of blah blah blah from CCP as always (Dev blogs, bad posts, etc).

If you're bored with FiS atm (I am), the best option is just to un-sub, and then re-sub IF and WHEN CCP decide to actually implement half of the stuff they will babble on about. My accounts will lapse soon, and I plan to do just this.
Janos Saal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#180 - 2011-09-10 11:11:28 UTC
Fluffy Muff wrote:
So... is it 18 months yet?

No, you see the "18 months" is like the speed of light. It remains constant no matter how much time has passed. So ten. 50, 100 years from now it'll still be 18 months away.

EVE is dead